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Which sort of mushrooms would you grow?

softblue

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Aug 10, 2017
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14
Hi all

I have previously had a growth kit of psilocybe cubensis some years ago. Later a friend had one with psilocybe cyanescens - they were clearly stronger.

Strictly thinking in 'value for money' cyanescens might be a good choice, simply because they are strong.

Which factors would you include in your decision on which sort of mushrooms to grow? Any comparisons, i.e. one sort giving a deeper/more pleasant trip than another, in your experience?
 
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Have you visited the Shroomery forum out of curiosity? There are some extremely knowledgeable people there
 
Thanks for the tip Pfafffed :) I visited their forum and found this thread with a similar question:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15554961#15554961

I'd be interested in hearing if and why some people on here would prefer certain shrooms to others. But at the same time and at the risk of sounding very reductionistic it seems to me that since they all contain psilocybin and psilocin (in some varying ratio) it should just be the strength of the shrooms that varies.

One answer in the thread linked above sums up very well what sounds reasonable to me:

Personally I think there are too many variables that could influence a mushroom trip to be able to put it down to species/strain. Sure some species are stronger than others, but I wouldn't say that some mushrooms give a 'cleaner' trip than others. That is more reliant on set and setting, and dosage if you ask me.
Unless someone has a lot of experience with different strains in different settings with different dosages, I don't think it's right to put it down to different strains.

As far as I know and I could be wrong, Panaeolus Cyanescens have quite a different psilocin to psilocybin ratio that could give a bit of a different trip.
 
I have only tried Ps. cubensis and Panaeolus cyanescens (aka Copelandia cyanescens) but I found the latter to be much more clear, clean of mindfuckery and LSD-like personally. I wonder whether it might have to do something with either certain amounts of MAO inhibition by tryptamines which are themselves not active but still preoccupy the enzyme which is otherwise also interested in breaking down psilocin, the major active shroom principle... or whether psilocybin itself is an example of a drug which acts like psilocin but still modulates and disrupts its activity enough to be mindfucking.

I am really skeptical about a lot of shit including so called clean acid vs so called dirty acid AND what's in shrooms, but I still do like to think there is a difference and that my experiences were not coincidence or a combination of coincidence and confirmation of initially incidental occurrences until they become "meaningful"..

Currently I am growing Ps. cyanescens (not the aforementioned Pan species!), Ps. ovoideocystadiata and Ps. subaeruginosa (aka ovoids and subs resp.). I mainly grow them out of curiosity and a thirst for challenge although i will certainly assay them tho more carefully than when I was younger. I hope they do fruit for the first time now cause the first season to get a chance has arrived. :)

I don't really have any current hypotheses. There are no reasons to believe why either cubes or pans are more of an example of what to expect since what I am growing is really not in either class - tho there might be ways to try and deduce and propose something based on the known psilocin vs psilocybin contents of the species that I have tried as a reference and compare them with the contents found in the species I am growing.

Really I am not interested in attempting that, it seems folly. I would rather just assume that I have no proper frame of reference other than guidelines of potency and see what I experience. Cause it seems better to dismiss the shoddy evidence we have for true hypotheses and let those come potentially after my experience without as much stain of bias.

I am also soon starting on Ps. zapotecorum and if I can get an NZ stoner to wake up goddamnit! I might actually get the Ps. weraroa i traded for. :) Not sure how hard that might be but the climate should work... it's a psychedelic ghost pouch mushroom (the latter) and an "old world" species... i'm still pretty interested in umbonate ones with more of a nipple ^_^

Anyway @ OP: are you sure what you saw was a Psilocybe cyanescens kit and not Panaeolus cyanescens? Either way i find pan cyan to be superior all things considered, but you might have to work out the expected yields and maybe cubes are more reliable.
As for the variety (or so called strain) of cubensis: don't worry too much as picking those is more of a fad and not really that consequential in the sense of being predictable. Genetics just differ across the varieties and not really reliable unless you have a lot of consistent reports on a variety (hard to get ;) ) so picking varieties has more to do with picking something which sounds interesting to you and you enter a crapshoot to a pick. About 80% or so is marketed as potent - you are better off concluding that Cubensis is plenty potent for a psychedelic species (which it absolutely is although there are a few better ones) rather than that the variety you are reading about is unusually potent.
Some traits regarding the production of many small shrooms vs few big shrooms you read about are likely true, claims about colonization rates a little bit, but claims about production not so much. This is rather determined by limits imposed by nutrition. All in all with cubes the result is a function of the conditions you provide to grow them and to some extent the health of the genetics you provide... but don't assume one of em is better, that'd be actually racist.

Except for Penis Envy (those are actually more potent and have bigger dicks) - not even kidding. Although this is offset by the fact that it can often fluke and produce more unstable mutants, so by no means is this a reliable way to get a total yield of more actives.
 
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Hi Solipsis

Thanks for your inputs here!

Interesting that you are growing different sorts and experimenting somewhat.

About these growkits I have been looking at: they seem to all be from the psilocybe strain. One curious thing is that they all say 'psilocyne' and not 'psilocybe' on the product labels.

Here is a picture of the product label for these that they call ecuadorians - which I have tried before and found in that case to be stronger than psilocybe cubensis (mexicans).

https://www.shayanashop.com/Product_Images/big/Ecuadorian_2100cc_01.jpg.ashx?preset=productbig

Interesting that you mention that all the sorts in the psilocybe strain might be rather similar. I think I had overlooked the fact that psilocybe is just one strain and not the broad category of entheogenic mushrooms in general
 
Just to get a few things straight there:

Psilocybe is a genus which is a whole big group of species of mushrooms. "Strains" is a bad word for varieties which are forms or races of just one species just like we find many races of humans across the world but they belong to the human race and not Neanderthals!
So... it's a hierarchy of grouping: different varieties within a species, different species in a genus.

You cannot just base potency of a variety of cubes on a bunch of experiences, even on many experiences without keeping track as well as having someone else administering it and checking it against other varieties to be sure.

What I am saying is that the varieties are almost all comparable of Cubensis, so the different varieties or strains within that species.

It is rather confusing indeed so don't worry :) : it is Psilocybin mushrooms which are often named as such but this just means a group of psychoactive mushrooms genera (plural of genus) and the species within them. This is not an official grouping but an unofficial one based on the presence of the chemicals psilocin and psilocybin, but the analysis of the presence of those compounds in certain species may not be complete yet! so..

Ecuadorians are just a variety of Psilocybe cubensis, and "mexicans" are not a variety at all but rather just a trivial name for P. cubensis. So Ecuadorians fall within them and you couldn't truly compare them. I guess there are varieties of P. cubensis which are especially found in Mexico originally so those might be called mexican cubensis in particular... but hey vendors often don't know what they are talking about and use marketing ploys. It's that much more of a reason not to overestimate these comparisons and it is better to just assume for now that cubensis is cubensis.

To add a little bit on top of the confusion. There are a grouping of species of psychoactive shrooms which are called Mexicanaea but I don't even think this includes P. cubensis? Anyway they are ones originally found in Mexico and may be called "old world" shrooms. I think.

What should make it a lot less confusing is that it is harder to get grow kits from species other than P. cubensis and I'm not sure if you even should... Cubensis is very strong and reliable by comparison. Grow kits are expensive and as such questionable to begin with so you don't wanna compromise more on that if you have no experience or knowhow of growing.

Don't share links to vendors, sourcing is forbidden.
 
Oooh, good luck with the Weraroa novo-z, Solipsis! I can't imagine how hard that will be to grow - they grow so strangely, hiding under pine needles and leaf duff. They're potent and marvelous, although I'm a tad biased. Of my hundreds and hundreds of psychedelic experiences, my only truly transcendental, ineffably beatific peak experience was with that mushroom
 
I'd grow the Mario ones and get on my king Kong shit.

I can barely get high off shrooms as a psychedelic hard-head, I've eaten a quarter ounce and felt like I popped a quarter of an x pill when everyone else is gone off 2 grams to an eighth. I'd rather just drop a 10 strip, no bad taste
 
You without a doubt need to try a different variety.
Some, such as Penis Envy, with bring your internal clock to a grinding halt. 2 grams of properly grown will make you never want to touch a 10-strip again if it's the most intense awareness you are after. Also, and equally important after a good nights sleep there's no "fry-like" hangover in your future. If anything it's an after-glow.
 
P. weraroa is closely related to P. cyan and even more so to P. subaeruginosa of which it is basically the pouch version. So I kinda expect that it should be as hard to grow as those, which should be doable. :) But yea they look crazy :D definitely one of the more interesting ones if you ask me.

Penis Envy is simply on average a significantly more potent variety of cubensis and probably the only one save perhaps Albino Penis Envy and PE6 which are relatives. Treezy I think you might as well just up the dosage and make a tea if it's too many mushrooms for you to eat. If the taste is the problem, there are ways around that.

But I find the experience of mushrooms different to acid and usually much more emotional, less forgiving and harder to control. Not interchangeable.
 
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I mean, I have gotten great highs off large amounts of shrooms but not massively different from the likes of various 4-ho (xxxx) and those are easier to consume.
 
Thanks for the clarification Solipsis. Sounds like it wont be all to important which psilocybe mushrooms I end up growing. Most important thing for me is that I grow a sizeable batch so I can get to know the strength and find a good dose.

On a somewhat related note: The most accurate way of dosing would obviously be to make a powder from the mushrooms and thereby negating variance in alkoloid content between the single mushrooms. But by doing that I would assume the alkaloid content will breakdown sooner - then again maybe that doesn't matter if the stash if kept in the freezer.
 
I have only tried Ps. cubensis and Panaeolus cyanescens (aka Copelandia cyanescens) but I found the latter to be much more clear, clean of mindfuckery and LSD-like personally.

Those are the only two I've tried as well. Pan cyans were definetly way more visionaryish than ps. cubensis. Did you grow them I assume?
 
Absolutely, in my opinion you'll just want a reliable kit vendor with a well prepared fresh kit and just pick some variety of cubensis with a cool description and pics (although don't attach too much value to it beyond just making a pick, cause you gotta choose anyway and you might as well make it interesting for yourself and look at heritage etc even if the resulting appearances are not always so consistent). And ideally you will want to save up your shrooms as much as you can and when you are done growing and you dried them as soon as you picked them... continue until you have them cracker dry (air drying first, then finish with desiccant drying) and then you can consider pulverizing and mixing thoroughly - at least if you have good ways to store it safe from oxygen, warmth and light. Store well-sealed in some kind of portions.

The advantage is that you get a homogenous batch of more even potency, but the downside is that it becomes a bit more sensitive to loss of potency which is why you should only do it if you store properly and quickly. So yes you have the right idea.

It is understandable though if you don't have the patience to wait when you pick your first mushrooms, but the potency may not be consistent.

I did not grow those pans at the time - actually I was not that deep into growing yet at the time and they were still legal here.
 
Thanks again for all the feedback here - appreciate it! I will go again and order some, and get them dried good and then read up on peoples experiences with storage to make sure that part is done well too.
 
Hey OP: I edited out the name of where you said you plan to get a grow kit because we don't allow source discussion at Bluelight.

I've only grown cubensis, some generic ones and also Golden Teachers.
 
I've always wanted to give P.baeocystis a grow myself, as well as P.azurescens, a relative of P.cyanescens. As well as to compare our native english Psilocybe cyanescens with the US strain, subtype or whatever it is. P.cyanescens is quite extraordinarily potent, I'd say the most potent of our native british species. Whilst they have a very high ratio of psilocin to psilocybin, which means they do not store too well, I've found cyans to be potent as fucking hell. Whilst The Hadean Bitch (former housemate, a disgrace to autistic people everywhere. Rapid-cycling bipolar with psychotic features, a dirty little fucking borderline PD slag too [If you ever meet someone with borderline PD, RUN LIKE HELL and never look back, cut off all contact and make sure they don't know where you live. BPD are filth, vermin, trash, who shouldn't be allowed to live. Pure, unmitigated evil. This one was a dangerous, highly manipulative,compulsive liar and a thief, used people until she'd bled them dry then made false rape accusations to get them out the way. Made out she was being raped, battered, verbally and physically, as well as sexually abused by her own family.I don't believe a word of it, bar being screamed at and given a thick ear on a regular basis, I believe that much because I cannot in honesty say that if I'd have realized soon enough what she was, that I'd not have cut her throat in her sleep, she was just pure evil. Even got engaged to a guy, to get a ring, so she could sell it and move to the UK ilegally, after I offered her, a friend a the time having shown nothing of her true colours, then accused him of raping her to get him out of the way so she could carry on with her plans. She eventually tried kicking my door in as I woke from sleep, tried to fillet me with a katana, only to make the big mistake of not realizing I slept with a S&W revolver in my bedside cabinet, and that with my own blade, I was a better swordsman than she is and quickly disarmed her, with the revolver pointed right between her eyes,and a right hook in the face fhat flattened her. All because I demanded she wait while I put clothes on and had a few minutes to wake up properly before she could come into my bedroom and feed the pet fish I allowed her to keep to make her feel at home here.


But we found, or rather I found, a HUGE patch of cyans, taught her how to tell them apart from deadly, amatoxic Galerinas, we scrounged 2 free empty happymeal crates, explaining the situation to the girl at the counter, as it was far from home we had to take the shrooms back. They were damp given the weather and we spent a couple of hours cleaning them by wiping off the crap with paper towels, but before we'd even nearly finished me and the bitch from hades both noticed each other's eyes were dilated like dinnerplates, and that the walls were twisting and melting and breathing out funny colours. Neither of us had taken a single mushroom, but had absorbed enough psilocin/psilocybin through our fingertips to end up at at least a ++ and 1/2-+ on the Shulgin scale, and by the time we were done we were both gigglig like little schoolgirls uncontrollably, and absolutely fucking WANKERED on the psilocybin/psilocin and had started properly tripping our arses off.

Tried 5-6 grams. freshly dried over KOH in my lab desiccator, and fucking bugger ME, that hit me as hard as ever I'd tripped shrooms of the psilocybin sort (kept my Amanitas for myself,as I have to harvest as many sacks full as I can yearly to ensure having enough fly agaric around to cook dinner with, as I use it a LOT as a seasoning in the kitchen.)

Fucking potent little buggers, Psilocybe cyanescens, although cyans have a very high psilocin to psilocybin ratio (in favour of psilocin) making them not an ideal species for storage.

I'd love to grow Weraroa too. A weird looking, gillled gasteroid fungus. How very strange. How potent are they compared to Cubensis or Cyanescens?

Psilocybe baeocystis is one I'd very much like to try. Apparently the species is very potent indeed.

And, although I don't know how I could get hold of any, and being in a family of obligate mycorrhizal mushrooms, it'd not be practical to grow, but I'd at least love to TRY nonda gegwants nyimbil, from the highlands of papua new guinea, binomial name Boletus manicus, which the indigenous tribesmen eat, particularly during times of highly emotionally charged actions being taken. The genus Boletus is not known for psychedelics otherwise, but they have been analyzed, and found to contain trace quantities of an indolic compound they could not identify due to the tiny amounts present.

That IMO, suggests that whatever it is they detected, if it's the active substance or one of them, is as potent, nearly as, or more potent than LSD, and means that it cannot be psilocybin or psilocin, and that we've something new there that is just begging for identification and research. And then developing analogs of the actives. It'd be fascinating if we found either a natural lysergamide psychedelic that isn't simple LSA, or better still an entirely novel backbone to develop a set of analogs from (I.e like we have lysergamides, tryptamines, psychedelic amphetamines, phenethylamines, cathinones and potentially quinazolinediones. AFAIK benzothiophene analogs of simple tryptamines like DMT are active as well. But aside from cathinone analogs and the quinazolinediones such as modified versions of ketanserin where the sidechain is modified to be something like an NBOMe, and I'd guess other N-benzyl derivatives might be 5HT2a agonists. And the benzothiophene analogs of extant tryptamines have yet to be thoroughly explored)

An entirely new indolic backbone would be really damn neat though.
 
Why dry over KOH?

Wow 5-6 grams is a lot dude..

weraroa is meant to be similar to subaeruginosa and belongs in the Ps. cyan family so should be quite potent. Am currently trying again to find it, I can't wait for that kiwi to possibly ever turn up.

Are you sure that Papua NG bolete is actually psychedelic though? I think plenty of herbs, plants and mushrooms are used in rituals in which tribesmen from various parts of the world go into a trance but I think the substances involved are always capable of significant trips for us in regular settings.

Presence of an indole in a mushroom in itself doesn't seem much evidence for anything but it's curious and exciting to figure this out yea :) . Can be annoying to grow tropical species here, I have tried with King Tuber oysters (which grow a kind of truffle too) - but alas the crazy heatwave here had passed before I could fruit them so now - hopefully - the bags are making sclerotia, at least I do see some things that look the same as psychedelic sclerotia.

I'm somewhat interested in P. baeocystis but actually never see it being grown in the shroomer community. Neither weraroa really but that is also cause it is indigenous to NZ so kinda niche.
 
Wanted to dry it with the absolute minimum of heat exposure and as rapidly as possible. Because even given a gentle but thorough and rapid desiccation cyans may not last more than a year, in a closed jar. Next time I pick any I'll store any I can't use right away under argon or nitrogen also to prevent oxidation as much as possible.

As for B.manicus, I will only be sure, if I actually got to sample it myself, or received other firsthand reports.

However the accounts I've read do seem to point towards it's being active, such as reports of auditory hallucinations, interpreted by a tribesman as 'a bush demon boxing his ears', and reports of lillipution hallucinations, that would sound an awful lot like there is something biological going on.

As for GROWING it here, I think there is next to no chance of that happening. It's a mycorrhizal species, all boletes are, with possibly the exception of Chalciporus (peppery bolete and it's relatives, which is believed to be parasitic on fly agaric mycelium, I often find the two together, and before I read that I had been wondering for a while if there was some either symbiotic or parasitic association between the two.) And also Boletus parasiticus, which grows as a parasite of earthballs, Scleroderma species. The vast majority however are mycorrhizal, entering into symbiotic association with trees.
 
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