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Thread: Trying to get on Methadone and Suboxone

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    Trying to get on Methadone and Suboxone 
    #1
    A little background: I was, basically, forced to sign an Agreement saying I would not do drugs or be around people or places associated with them in order for the judge to allow me to go to Mental Health Court, which will have me clean for almost a month by my first court date.

    See, I'm gonna try and ask them at the MHC if they will allow me to get on one of the Opioid Replacement Programs or refer me to one of them, but there is the whole Agreement that I signed, so I will be clean for over a month by the time I get to the ORT Doctor.

    What I want to know is this: Is it possible to be put on Suboxone/Methadone if I've already been sober for over a month, or will the MHC or ORT Doctor tell me that I have been clean for so long already, so therefore I don't need it? I think the state-funded courts are legally supposed to allow you to start ORT if requested, unless there is a good reason that it won't help me or it will make me worse. I assume the court will allow it, but I'm wondering about the ORT Doctor. Has anybody ever started Suboxone or Methadone after being clean for so long beforehand?

    Any answers or even just bits of info regarding what i've written are greatly appreciated.
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    #2
    Bluelighter
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    Maybe someone with experience will chime in . It would seem that they should allow it since it would keep you from street drugs . I imagine as long as its doctor prescribed then you should be fine ,but again I'm no expert in the matter. I know jails don't allow any ORT here where I live . I would call and talk to someone in the court system and find out first before getting on anything. Some of these old judges may still be in the Nancy Reagan "just say no days" .
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    #3
    If you can show a opioid dependance that's been longer than one year and have tried multiple other routes contrary to popular belief is that you have to have opioids in your piss in order to get into a program that's actually not true that's why there's a federal mandate to only allow a max dose of methadone your first day to account for the possibility that your tolerance isnt as high as what you told them. It really is a clinic by clinic policy but the federal law says that if you can show that you cannot consistantly stay clean and opioids are ruining your life by jail or rehab institutions then you can be placed on maintenance therapy. I have actual personal experience going on suboxone without anything in my system or being defendant at the time because I couldn't stay clean long term so I know first hand that you can absolutely at least get suboxone I am currently on methadone but I was defendant before but I know that my clinic takes people when they get released from jail after being clean for months and months while in jail and enrolling when released but if you look up federal laws on replacement therapy the guidelines do state that it's possible to enroll without a current dependance if you show that stabilization will benefit your life a lot of people think replacement therapy is just for the acute withdrawals at least for me it's actually for the neverending PAWS afterwords and doctors understand that as well that's why they allow it as long as it would be beneficial and not harm you
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    #4
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    courts typically cant get in the way of doctor prescriptions and orders, so if your doctor recommends a replacement therapy you should be ok, just make sure you have your prescriptions onhand when you go to your count-ordered drug screenings or whatever

    getting clean is the easy part, its staying clean thats always problematic, so this "you've been clean for x amount of time already so you dont need replacement therapy" is bullshit.

    back when i first got on subs, you had to have a urine drop dirty for opioids to get on methadone or bupe, but that was also 10 years ago and through the VA, so i cant really speak to how private doctors do it or how its done these days.
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    #5
    It's insane to me how stigmatized methadone is, and how no addiction doctors/detox doctors would even consider Methadone tapers, yet they'll shove Buperenorphine down your throat for the rest of your life (probably getting kickbacks from pharma companies).

    Obviously I understand how serious of a fucking drug Methadone is, and it's a long term drug, but if it's blocking other opiates at what, 60-80 mgs and above??? Than what's the problem? Especially for addicts that have an unsuccessful history of staying sober, and have chronic pain issues, it seems like the perfect choice, no?

    And isn't all that information about calcium depletion, rotting teeth etc... all bs. Isn't it just from years of neglecting your body while using dope??
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    #6
    Bluelighter ladyhlove's Avatar
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    Trip, I couldn't agree more with you.

    When I first got into recovery, the stigma of methadone and all the people screaming "DON'T GET ON METHADONE WHATEVER YOU DO!!! YOU'LL REGRET IT!!!" made me refuse methadone treatment even though the Dr. at my outpatient clinic recommended it over suboxone for me personally due to the length and severity of my heroin addiction. My transition was incredibly rough due to my sky-high tolerance, but even after making it past all of that and getting stable on the subs after a week of almost ct-like withdrawals, I still found that the subs did nothing for my massive opioid cravings and that I could still get about 80% as high off heroin as I could before as long as I waited to dose towards the end of the day/evening. This made it so I could get through the day on subs, then still get fucked up every night. This became, as one would imagine, expensive as well as exhausting. After continually pissing dirty at my clinic, I was given the choice: start methadone or get tf out of here. Within a few days of beginning methadone, everything changed. I no longer wanted to get fucked up each evening. The methadone not only killed all wd symptoms, but all of my cravings as well. I didn't feel high, I didn't feel fucked up...i felt normal and I felt like a regular human being for the first time in a long time. I found that when I tried to use h, i couldnt feel it anyways...it truly blocked (unlike subs which blocked to a point, but I could always take more dope and "push past" the barrier subs created). For the first time in a long time ,I havent used dope in months. Methadone has truly saved my life.

    I know it'll be hard to get off, but I'm not worried about that right now. Subs are also hard to get off of and many people I've spoken with who have tried to get off of both drugs say that there isn't too much difference between the two when it comes to wds. I'm not saying subs don't work and I know that everyone's body chemistry is different and that subs prob work better than methadone for some people even, I'm just saying I wish that methadone didn't have this horrible stigma. It is really a great option for people, especially those with large habits who have continually failed at ct. All these methadone horror stories, though, keep everyone from giving it a try. People seem to think subs are this harmless way to get off and methadone is the devil and that couldn't be further from the truth.
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    #7
    They will allow it so you do not go backwards, you may need to tell them that you are having very bad cravings and such, but if you are doing fine without them, do yourself a favor and stay away from Suboxone, I've been on it for a long time and it's hard to get off.
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    #8
    Glad to hear that you're feeling better Lady, FINALLY. Yea dope that's around now blasts through subs. I once took a full 8 mg strip at hr 20 ish thinking the half life of the fent/analogue was similar to oxy and I went into precipitated wd to the extreme. I left.work saying I was too sick to stand, got in my car and drove screaming like I someone shot me in the stomach for 4 hrs to pick up. Ended up hitting someones bumper in a traffic lol.

    So fucking lucky i did no damage. Anyway Dealer had to load my rig for me cause I was incapable, and within moments of pushing down on that rig, the wds melted right off. So it sounds like you've got some similar strength/type of stuff near you, unless it was only like a 2mg sub dose or some shit.
    But drs are just so brainwashed, they're like fucking pez dispensers for subs. And even some of the nurses told.me they should have had me on methadone.

    Subs dont work across the board, and def dont work for crazy tolerances; that's why I just spit the fifth subutex out, threw up, and said I might as well cold turkey (the drs and nurses actually thought the nalaxone in suboxone taken orally could cause precipitated wd!! How the fuck do they not understand it's inactive orally, and its the buprenorphine itself that does that!??)
    They don't look at each individual case, and think "wait this person is an extreme case and may need to be on methadone, or at least a fast taper for detox."

    In the end i'm glad they didnt give it to me, because it was that 8 day hell, plus being temporarily handicap and having to push each day at home like it was bootcamp to do simple tasks that finally made me say "fuck opiates." But it was definitely dangerous. Being psychotic/delerious because my brain couldnt sleep, losing 25 or whatever lbs in 7-8 days, not drinking for 5, or eating for solids for about 2 weeks without an iv is a recipe for disaster.

    The stigma I believe is from the clinics hardass policies over the years and no one giving a shit about dopeheads. They give too high of doses (or at least used to from what I gather) and discussing lowering or raising doses is blasphemy.

    I mean I personally have seen people Doned out near clinics in some bad dope areas out of my state when I was picking up. But a pain mangement dr., my pharmacist, AND THE ADDICTION PSYCHIATRIST at my current outpatient said if the lyrica doesnt work, a low dose of methadone for pain management would be perfect for me. I'm hoping it doesn't come.to that, and that in a few months kratom will work again for breakthrough pain.

    But if you do eventually come off of it, it's just a long slow.process. it doesnt have to be one of those.horror stories of 60 days of bone aches etc... if done properly over 6 months to a year, it should be easier than kicking dope. But if it's keeping you straight now, just enjoy being out of the chaos for now and see what happens.
    Trip
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    #9
    What a fucking, refreshing relief it is that someone gets it's the bupe not the naloxone, that's the blocker, and what causes pw. And that naloxone is inactive orally.

    That frustrates me to no end w others on subs and medical professionals
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    #10
    It's scary how fucking bluelighters know more about maintainence drugs than ADDICTION/DETOX doctors and nurses. Just shows how directed they are by pharmaceutical companies and how little research they do on the drugs they prescribe by the truckload each day. This country needs to get it's shit together.
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    #11
    Bluelighter ladyhlove's Avatar
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    ^^Ugh. THIS.

    I love my methadone clinic, I really do, but the Dr. is such a pompous asshole (the rest of the patients as well as the staff, nurses and counselors, all dislike him as well). They told me over the phone that I shouldn't dose past 10pm the night before induction (which I needed to be there by 6:30-7am to begin, and would dose around 10am), but the day before while I was reading literature and preparing myself for the next day's induction, I read how large tolerances could cause precipitated wd even at 18-20 hours so, being a nearly 2g a day user (inter nasally) at that point, I stopped and did my last dose around 2pm and ended up not picking up the small bag I was planning to buy after work that day to get through till 10pm. My wds started that evening slightly and continued to get worse through the night. I woke up at 5:30am (well i wasn't exactly sleeping very hard) feeling like shit, took a shower, then headed into the clinic. After all the paperwork and orientation with my counselor and whatnot, when I saw the Dr. I told him my concerns about my habit and inducting on subs too early. He told me that I had done bad research...that I was receiving subutex NOT suboxone so precipitated withdrawals weren't possible for me. As much as I argued, he kept reminding me he had been to med school and he had all this experience with opiate treatment and blah blah blah). 2mg....it started....so, what do they do? Give me 2 more of course and send me home where I proceeded to go into the worst wd of my life. I began blowing up mu dealer who made me wait for like 45 min for him at a gas station, ya know him being "down the street, 5 min away, chill quit calling!" the whole entire time. He ended up shorting me too, I paid for a gram and he gave me a half..(God, I'm so glad I don't have to deal with that guy anymore, btw)..but I could've cared less at that point I just needed it in my body ASAP. Just two lines melted it all away. I felt no relief for nearly a week until i laid off the dope, finally, after 2 days and then getting my dose ramped up to 16mg. Still took another week for me to feel truly ok on the subs (and only ok, never good)

    This story is common and it shouldn't be. These sub doctors don't know what they're doing, well a lot of them anyways...I've heard these stories so many times on these kinds of forums. I was fortunate that I did my research because, when the precipitated wd hit, I knew what it was and I knew how to properly handle it (some forums have people who say to do nothing, or do more subs...wrong! do a full agonist...its what works. I know I know, it goes against being sober, but if you've ever been in pwd you know just how bad it is and the need to get out of it asap) or else I could've been fucked. I also knew that if I took another sub the next day, I wouldn't go into pwd again since I already had subs in my system, so I kept up with the sub treatment until I was ok. If I didn't have that kind of information beforehand, I definitely would've said "fuck subs" and never continued my treatment...and I'm sure that happens all of the time. Unfortunately, I didn't learn my lesson I guess and I got to experience the joys of precipitated withdrawal a couple mroe times until i switched to methadone...fun stuff. Now, just the taste of subs triggers intense nausea and almost PTSD like symptoms.
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