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Misc What are your thoughts about Kratom?

FunctionlJnkieGal

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 9, 2015
Messages
257
I just tried some Maeng Da Kratom capsules today that I purchased from a well-known convenience store (ULTRA ENHANCED GOLD HERBAL RELAXATION). I use to sell Kratom at a head-shop I worked at and never once thought to buy any during my employment there. Didn't notice much of a buzz at all, but it did get rid of my runny nose, sneezing, mild pain, early withdrawal symptoms, etc. The only thing is I had to eat all 10 capsules (over the course of several hours) to feel any relief. Could it just be a shitty brand? As a daily morphine user and twice-a-month binger, maybe that's why I didn't feel much. If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions, I'd appreciate it.
 
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I get the 60mg MS Contin tablets and use a pill splitter. Usually they're the ABG's. I take 15mg daily (at night), but on a binge I take 300mg at once.
 
How much was in the capsules? I haven't done any extracts but when I use plain leaf red Bali 3-5 grams cover my tianeptine wds. You should need less w extract unless it really was a cheap/low quality kratom
 
If was probably a shitty brand. I would NEVER buy kratom from a head shop. Get it online. For me, Red Bali worked WONDERS for my withdrawal. Took away all of my symptoms. Thats the only reason why Im off the needle now.
 
It was a miracle compound for me. I used it to get off a significant Fentanyl habit a couple of times (Yes, I was stupid and went for round two a year after round 1). It was the greatest find ever, for me, in that it truly diminished WD symptoms and made it possible for me to function once I figured out a proper dosing schedule. Before I did, I thought Kratom would not help me, but I simply was not taking enough. Fent WDs are insane, and I really wondered if I could benefit from Kratom, and like I said, it was a savior to me. I highly, highly recommend it. One bad thing is that it can constipate the hell out of you, especially when you are taking many grams per day.
 
I threw the empty pack away, but I wanna say they were 400mg per capsule (I took all 10). They were the Maeng Da kind. Its the only kind they had at the convenience store and those definitely weren't in extract form. If I could figure out how many mg's of kratom are equal to 15mg of morphine, maybe that might help me know how much I need. From reading your replies, I'm thinking it might also be due to the brand or the strain itself.
 
In my experience 4-6 grams should be equivalent to 15mg of morphine. You could try powdered leaf, just mix it in with yogurt or pudding if you can't stand to toss and wash it.
 
I'm just about finished a bag of Green Maeng Da that, to be honest, I did not like that much. I found it overly stimulating. I'm not trying to come off opiates or anything, just using kratom to sort of fill the void of drinking alcohol. It works fairly well for that, I take about 7g a day spaced out. I ordered another bag (100g), of Red Bali this time. I'm hoping this is a bit more relaxing and stress-relieving, and that is what I've read about it.

Anyway, good luck with your switch off of morphine OP, I have for sure heard of countless stories of opiate users successfully using kratom to get off them.
 
You can experiment with the strains but I've always found it to never be as good as the real deal (oxy or morph). It spaces me out, oddly enough on morphine pills even I can function but kratom I feel less functional.
 
kratom doesnt do anything at all for me (well, i've managed to catch some extremely mild buzz, barely above placebo, and it happened only a handful of times), and i've never bought from headshops, in fact i have tried 3 different reputable vendors and 4 different strains (2 reds, a white one and a green one), both toss n wash and by mixing it in some liquid (i've tried water, OJ and grapefruit juice) and chugging the revolting and bitter mud that results from this dreadful combination in doses ranging from as little as 3 grams up to 20 grams (at once!)

it just doesnt seem to work for some people
 
Falsifiedhypothesi, GRAMS? No wonder I didn't feel much with the 400"mg" capsules. ComfortablyNumb95, when I sold it at the headshop I use to work at we had both leaf and extract formulations and various different strains (red dragon capsules were our best seller). I always told the customers to let me know how it worked for them and I always got mixed feedback. I'd say 50% found it very helpful but the other 50% said it was a complete waste of money, and the majority of people purchasing it were trying to quit opiates.
 
Falsifiedhypothesi, GRAMS? No wonder I didn't feel much with the 400"mg" capsules. ComfortablyNumb95, when I sold it at the headshop I use to work at we had both leaf and extract formulations and various different strains (red dragon capsules were our best seller). I always told the customers to let me know how it worked for them and I always got mixed feedback. I'd say 50% found it very helpful but the other 50% said it was a complete waste of money, and the majority of people purchasing it were trying to quit opiates.

yeah, unfortunately it seems to be very hit and miss, which is a shame as i would love to have something to take for a nice stimulant opioid-y buzz, especially for going out with friends. instead i have to rely on booze and strong opioids like heroin and stims (usually a combination of the three) to have fun, which is pretty fucking expensive
 
I must admit I was confused with all the strains of Kratom and to be honest I can't remember what I bought. It was capsules and it was a big help for me. The key is to ween down. I got down to 1 8MG. Sub lasting me 6 days. After that I did between 9-10 capsules a day for a week and after 7-8 days I was down to 2 a day. As my name suggest I am an older person and my body is not what it once was so I was surprised that it was not so bad. Of course there was the major boredom and sleep is rough. Restless arm went away after about 4 days. The key is to ween down.
 
Some thoughts:

- in general kratom seems pretty good for maintenance and low to mid level effects, it is relatively safe from basically having a built in ceiling effect so you can't really go to extremes with it
- it's still addictive but it seems to be more reasonable than most other opioids in a lot of ways
- UEI (ultra enhanced indo) used to be a fabled very strong product, but not sure if you can easily buy that proper stuff anymore. Others are likely to copy that name.
- On the other hand: extracts of kratom in general are not ideal because they lose potency relatively fast. Of course you can always offset this with your dosage but still it may not be efficient.

anyone else growing it?
 
Capsules are generally half a gram each, if you pack the 000 capsules yourself at home with a pill filler you can get almost a gram in there, I think most pre-filled capsules are 00.

I heard someone say 4-6 grams of kratom for 15mg of morphine, that seems like a lot of kratom to me, especially if we are talking MS contin, which will retain most time release effects even after broken.

It's hard to compare, they are different animals, the level of kratom that will SUBSTITUTE for a certain dose of morphine is quite a bit lower than the level that will provide the same subjective effects or buzz.

You don't ever want to take more than 12-15 grams of kratom at a time, or an ounce a day. If you are using it to kick a habit 36-45g a day broken up into 3 doses is the max, there is just no point in taking more than that. At these high levels it can easily substitute for a 120-150mg a day oxycodone habit, you won't be satisfied, you won't get high, but you will feel fine.

As far as using it for a buzz or painkilling effects, 5 grams seems to be the sweet spot, dose every 2-3 hours if you need to(if you are trying to switch from a mild opiate habit I mean it's better to do that than take 10-12 grams every 4 hours), if you've got a tolerance 10-12 grams, but after 8 grams you can start to feel some negative side effects.

If you don't have a tolerance as little as 2 grams can provide a nice buzz or some pain killing effects, I would say 2-3 grams is about equal to 10mg oxycodone in painkilling effects, the buzz from kratom will never be as euphoric as morphinan opioids but it'll do the job just fine,

If you are a chronic pain patient, and your meds haven't gotten too out of hand, I would DEFINITELY say give Kratom a try, because it is self-limiting, and you can re-dose as much as you need and take it for as long as you want, you WILL have WDs from it if you take high doses for a long time, but they are MUCH more milkd than opioids WDs and over fairly quickly...tapering is possible but not easy because of its short duration of action.

I assume because most of its alkaloids are partial agonists with g-protein pathway selectivity that tolerance rises comparatively slowly, and is also why WDs are easier, you can not lethally overdose on it alone, no matter how hard you try, and if you take too much you will not only get nauseous but can suffer other side effects like sweating and anxiety because it has adrenergic effects, it is known to provide a high degree of energy at certain doses probably due to these adrenergic effects, adrenergic overdose is not pleasant.

If you are looking for an opiate like effects you want red strains.
For a more milkd effect, or if you have had problems with anxiety, a white strain.
A green strain is known for giving energy, but can tend to have to much adrenergic action in those who abuse it.
 
Capsules are generally half a gram each, if you pack the 000 capsules yourself at home with a pill filler you can get almost a gram in there, I think most pre-filled capsules are 00.

I heard someone say 4-6 grams of kratom for 15mg of morphine, that seems like a lot of kratom to me, especially if we are talking MS contin, which will retain most time release effects even after broken.

It's hard to compare, they are different animals, the level of kratom that will SUBSTITUTE for a certain dose of morphine is quite a bit lower than the level that will provide the same subjective effects or buzz.

You don't ever want to take more than 12-15 grams of kratom at a time, or an ounce a day. If you are using it to kick a habit 36-45g a day broken up into 3 doses is the max, there is just no point in taking more than that. At these high levels it can easily substitute for a 120-150mg a day oxycodone habit, you won't be satisfied, you won't get high, but you will feel fine.

As far as using it for a buzz or painkilling effects, 5 grams seems to be the sweet spot, dose every 2-3 hours if you need to(if you are trying to switch from a mild opiate habit I mean it's better to do that than take 10-12 grams every 4 hours), if you've got a tolerance 10-12 grams, but after 8 grams you can start to feel some negative side effects.

If you don't have a tolerance as little as 2 grams can provide a nice buzz or some pain killing effects, I would say 2-3 grams is about equal to 10mg oxycodone in painkilling effects, the buzz from kratom will never be as euphoric as morphinan opioids but it'll do the job just fine,

If you are a chronic pain patient, and your meds haven't gotten too out of hand, I would DEFINITELY say give Kratom a try, because it is self-limiting, and you can re-dose as much as you need and take it for as long as you want, you WILL have WDs from it if you take high doses for a long time, but they are MUCH more milkd than opioids WDs and over fairly quickly...tapering is possible but not easy because of its short duration of action.

I assume because most of its alkaloids are partial agonists with g-protein pathway selectivity that tolerance rises comparatively slowly, and is also why WDs are easier, you can not lethally overdose on it alone, no matter how hard you try, and if you take too much you will not only get nauseous but can suffer other side effects like sweating and anxiety because it has adrenergic effects, it is known to provide a high degree of energy at certain doses probably due to these adrenergic effects, adrenergic overdose is not pleasant.

If you are looking for an opiate like effects you want red strains.
For a more milkd effect, or if you have had problems with anxiety, a white strain.
A green strain is known for giving energy, but can tend to have to much adrenergic action in those who abuse it.

As far as the bold is concerned, I would say it's not GOOD to use that much, but I'm not sure exactly where you got those specific numbers.

No offense, but it sounds like you might have just randomly picked that amount.

Unfortunately, I'm up to doses of 11.75 grams which I don't like.

At one point in time about a year and a half ago I was doing up to 16 grams a dose and 2 ounces a day, about 3 days a week, and it wasn't great.

What sucks is that for me personally at least, once my tolerance goes up it takes FOREVER for it to go back down, and it goes up QUICKLY.

Like all I have to do is experiment with a high dose about 3 times and the lower dose is less effective.

I once took a 3 month break and my tolerance was STILL the same, but it went down after taking 11 months off.

Really, I don't think there's any actual DANGER that I am aware of even in taking very large amounts, it just sucks having to swallow so much powder and get so much bloating cause it's kind of disgusting and very time consuming.

But I'm not aware of it necessarily being more dangerous to take larger doses, since Kratom has a ceiling effect and I don't think it causes respiratory depression.

But I think we can all agree it's best to try to keep your tolerance and doses as low as possible and take the lowest effective dose, if you can...
 
Here is a basic list of different Kratom strains. Marketing is a big part of the Kratom industry. I am providing a link that will help explain some basics. Please do not become sucked into marketing, including this site. This link is only for breif explinations of strains.

https://kratomguides.com/best-kratom-strains-and-their-effects/


This is provided for legit HR.

YMMV. Effects vary based on your own chemical makeup.
 
Ummm...yeah I just randomly picked them, that's what I do, I just go around pulling numbers out of my ass for fun...The numbers come from lots of personal experience and MANY anecdotes from others...you'll find many in the kratom community use those same numbers, sure there are people who can take more, but many people will start getting negative effects at those amounts which makes the experience less pleasureable. And even if you can handle large amounts, taking that much will ruin your tolerance so you can not enjoy kratom anymore and because that is when the WDs start to become bad(which is probably more important than wether or not you are getting unwanted side effects).

What I think is HILARIOUS is you accuse me of making shit up, and then go on to provide further evidence that my advice was correct according to your own experiences at both 11.75g doses and 2 ounce a day habit...

So why would you want to take dosages that both ruin the experience and cause worse WDs and jack up your tolerance? Because you are chasing that buzz, but if you know ahead of time from advice on the internet that going above a certain threshold is not a good idea you can stop there...maybe if someone had told those same numbers to you you would have known ahead of time that those doses "[weren't] great" and you "don't like" them.

My numbers were definitely a little conservative, and you can squeeze more out of kratom at slightly higher doses, but its not worth it, it's a lot like bupe where less is more in that regard...sure you CAN take 24mg of bupe, and it will provide a "different" effect but the tolerance and dependance that comes with it is absolutely not worth it, my dosages are where you begin to get a diminshed return on your investment so to speak; and since your own experiences agree with what I am saying how about you get off my ass.

If you were accusing me of saying doses that high are dangerous...how about you actually read my entire post before you accuse me of making shit up...

you can not lethally overdose on it alone, no matter how hard you try
 
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Ummm...yeah I just randomly picked them, that's what I do, I just go around pulling numbers out of my ass for fun...The numbers come from lots of personal experience and MANY anecdotes from others...you'll find many in the kratom community use those same numbers, sure there are people who can take more, but many people will start getting negative effects at those amounts which makes the experience less pleasureable. And even if you can handle large amounts, taking that much will ruin your tolerance so you can not enjoy kratom anymore and because that is when the WDs start to become bad(which is probably more important than wether or not you are getting unwanted side effects).

What I think is HILARIOUS is you accuse me of making shit up, and then go on to provide further evidence that my advice was correct according to your own experiences at both 11.75g doses and 2 ounce a day habit...

So why would you want to take dosages that both ruin the experience and cause worse WDs and jack up your tolerance? Because you are chasing that buzz, but if you know ahead of time from advice on the internet that going above a certain threshold is not a good idea you can stop there...maybe if someone had told those same numbers to you you would have known ahead of time that those doses "[weren't] great" and you "don't like" them.

My numbers were definitely a little conservative, and you can squeeze more out of kratom at slightly higher doses, but its not worth it, it's a lot like bupe where less is more in that regard...sure you CAN take 24mg of bupe, and it will provide a "different" effect but the tolerance and dependance that comes with it is absolutely not worth it, my dosages are where you begin to get a diminshed return on your investment so to speak; and since your own experiences agree with what I am saying how about you get off my ass.

If you were accusing me of saying doses that high are dangerous...how about you actually read my entire post before you accuse me of making shit up...


Ok first off, other than my disagreeing with you, I can tell your tone is as if you think I'm ATTACKING you and you are trying to attack me back with as much vitriol as possible, so yeah...take it easy bro.

What I said didn't prove you correct, but I'm not trying to "get on your ass about it" either.

I said I don't like that my doses are up at 11.75 grams, but that nothing bad happens because of the fact that my tolerance is that high...I.E., no worse withdrawal, no worse side effects, only annoying because it takes more powder.


I DON'T get worse WDs right now than at lower doses that I've noticed, it's just that even if my tolerance goes up to 4 grams from 2 it still won't go back down. I mean I would perhaps agree there are diminished returns in the sense that I don't want my tolerance to be so high because it's a waste of time swallowing so much powder and it's annoying.

I always noticed if I dose more than 3 days a week WDs are an issue at any dose.

I've talked to lots of people about Kratom on this forum and elsewhere, and I'm going to maintain I've never heard those specific numbers mentioned, but that doesn't mean it COULDN'T be true, I'm just saying it sounds sort of random.

Not all Kratom is of equal strength and strains differ in content, so I'm not really sure there's logical evidence that a specific amount of grams of powder causes more issues.

It basically just sucks for my tolerance to be high cause I have to swallow so much powder, that's it.

I've always tried to avoid higher doses, but they just go up rapidly if I experiment with a higher dose even once or twice.

So at least in MY PERSONAL experience, higher doses bring annoyance, but I have not experienced an increase in side effects.
 
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