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Humans , if it weren't for prison , would you do it?

yompf

Bluelighter
Joined
May 14, 2017
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462
A fight with my x is still fresh on my mind. He's alot bigger then me . I swear to god , if it weren't for prison I would of done it. I would of stabbed him. (Not to death) Looking back at our relationship though, I feel like that's the only reason he's alive right now. Or without major scars.
Anyway. When you have been pushed to the edge. (Not quite OFF the edge if you can still THINK of consequences.)
Shouldn't it be something else stopping us from being violent . ? Not just jail ? What's wrong with us? Too many movies? Are we desensitized ? Am I a bad person?
Everytime I'm in a bank I am planning a robbery. Just standing in line. If I could get away with it I'd do it.
Would you?
Jail is here for a reason. Some laws attempt to protect people from people. I understand .
I'm not sure where to go with this ...
Would YOU do something terrible like beat the crap out of your ex in a rage? Would you take the money and run ?
Would you do any of the millions of things we aren't supposed to do , if you didn't have the threat of prison ?
(Or hell, lol)
What has to happen for us as a species to correct our behavior without the prison systems ? I suppose it starts with the individual.
 
depends on the thing, but most things I wouldnt do I think. Im generally a pussy though.

I sometimes fantasized about killing a specific person, but not the act of killing, I just wanted that person out of this life, because I thought I could save other people and me from their terrible manipulative personality.

Then one time I had this really mean coworker and I would definetely want to beat the crap out of her would I see her again. Thing is she is way more physically able to beat me so there is one reason why I wouldnt do it.

But also, I dont know how I would act if a loved one is being assaulted/murdered. I think then even with the prospect of going to prison I would consider doing bad stuff to them. So...I'm on the fence. It all depends.
 
It should be something else stopping us from committing violent or immoral acts of course.

I'm sure that given the nature of this forum, almost every member here has at least some small problem with the "stick method" of governing society, as I like to call it (ie, don't do this or I will beat you with this stick, or put you in prison for life) rather than the "carrot method" (if you behave in this way, I will give you a carrot, or your life will be enriched in some other way).

I would like to think as human culture evolves, we will, collectively, gain a greater and greater understanding of the problems associated with violence, and a greater ability to curb our base emotional impulses and tendencies towards violence, and those innate human tendencies which sometimes lead us to think that fucking over our fellow human being is a good idea. We can already see that this is happening, to some extent - on the whole, the rise of civilisation and large, cohesive, ordered communities has reduced and continues to reduce the incidence of violence in all forms in human societies.

The modern world is a multi-textured, hugely varied place of course, and there are still many places where violence and immorality are relatively commonplace and often go unchecked... and of course, the technology of warfare is a hugely complicating factor... but on the whole, violent and immoral acts committed by individual human beings happen less often, and I would argue that the threat of prison is not the only reason. Those who are lucky enough to grow up in developed nations usually understand through their education and cultural exposure that they do need to curb any desires they might have to do harm to others... And although, of course, the risk of wandering unintentionally into a brutal dystopian future to rival the brutality of the past is there... the potential also exists for us to continue to progress towards becoming a less violent species.

All that said - as long as human beings can in any sense be considered human beings, I do not believe that we will ever completely eliminate these darker tendencies. Our closest genetic relative, the chimpanzee, is arguably the most brutally evil creature alive. Evil of course is a human concept and has no objective meaning in nature, so I say that somewhat ironically, but if the word "evil" were ever to be applied to an animal, it would be applied to a chimpanzee. They are smart enough to recognise and understand that they can inflict pain to others, and yet will calculatedly hunt down their enemies, rip off their balls, gauge out their eyes, and just torture them to death... even among the most depraved human beings in the most dark and brutal era of history, this would be extreme. But anyway, my point is that tendencies to violence and fucking people over just to satisfy our own base desires is hard-coded in our very nature as a species, and although we can try our hardest to curb these darker parts of what we are, I do not believe it's ever going to be possible to entirely defeat them.



As far as my own personal opinion, I would try my best not to do something I consider to be immoral, threat of prison or not, because I understand that if I do this I am just part of a cycle of hatred and suffering that may eventually come back to me, or it may not. Karma is real, although not in the metaphysical sense that some people talk about it. If you choose to take an action that will cause significant harm to someone else, then that person will feel they need to take defensive steps to prevent this happening again. The more bad things happen to them, the more defensive steps they will take until they realise that offense is the best defense, and start to be the perpetrators of suffering and injustice themselves. This is of course why in so many cases the abused become the abusers, and is hopefully a pretty straightforward analogy for the effect that certain actions can have on society at large.

The more banks you rob, the more you contribute to the arms race of more and more security forces, police presence, weapons, surveillance, clamping down on individual freedoms... the more a society evolves in this direction, the more it tends towards warfare, pre-emptive strikes, dehumanisation of the opposition, war crimes, chemical weapons, torture... Nothing we do exists in a vacuum, and like Martin Luther King said, darkness cannot drive out darkness.

So, there are pretty sound logical reasons why if you care at all about your own future or anyone else's you should not commit immoral actions. But of course, it is not always easy to discern what is immoral and what is not, and ultimately none of us are truly rational beings, we are all slaves to our basic animal nature.

Given long enough, I think it's almost a certainty that humanity will destroy themselves because of this, eventually the wrong person at the wrong time will have access to something of inconceivably destructive power... the best hope for humanity is that we can create something better to succeed us...
 
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As far as my own personal opinion, I would try my best not to do something I consider to be immoral, threat of prison or not, because I understand that if I do this I am just part of a cycle of hatred and suffering that may eventually come back to me, or it may not. Karma is real, although not in the metaphysical sense that some people talk about it. If you choose to take an action that will cause significant harm to someone else, then that person will feel they need to take defensive steps to prevent this happening again. The more bad things happen to them, the more defensive steps they will take until they realise that offense is the best defense, and start to be the perpetrators of suffering and injustice themselves. This is of course why in so many cases the abused become the abusers, and is hopefully a pretty straightforward analogy for the effect that certain actions can have on society at large.
You explained that very well.
 
@vastness Wow ! you made ALOT of really good points. I'm on mobile so I can't put what u said in quotes ..
One thing , is I've never thought about karma in that sense. If i were to steal something from a store (or commit return fraud ) something I've seen as harmless. I would be contributing to something similar like with the bank robbery. Though maybe not with the guns. But maybe it's NOT so harmless after all.
And so when we harm others we are in fact paving the way for others to do harm as well. I always thought that was more so with children , but I've seen first hand people who get robbed over and over , turn to robbing others and now they are just as bad.
That always bothered me , that someone could feel like that was the best/only choice. Like if you can't beat em join em. Wtf
Speaking of paving the way for violence, I believe our own governments contribute to human violence and that a scarcity mentality is purposely being imposed on us. But then again I believe in things like the Illuminati , benevolent extraterrestrials , and I believe water has a consciousness and that I've connected to it in the past(My friend makes fun of me for this lol)
Anyway , can't we evolve to NOT be slaves at all? What if we own our spiritual nature instead of our animal?
I refuse to think that we are going to let ourselves kill ourselves. Humans will prevail ! Somehow

I didn't know that about the chimpanzee either. That's really creepy. I'm gonna you tube it
 
I put like 4 spaces for each new paragraph. Y does it do that ug
 
Human nature... at our core we are predators, we as humans fight our baser instincts daily.
 
^you spelled 'politicians', wrong.



Human nature... at our core we are predators, we as humans fight our baser instincts daily.

Human nature... at our core we are predators, we as humans fight our baser instincts daily.

...yep, as is every other carnivore or, omnivore - hedgehog, badger, lion, shark, human; it's just an instinctual drive in order to obtain, in an efficient was, nourishment for our optimum physiological, short-existence, 'tis all.

[video]https://www.ted.com/talks/frans_de_waal_the_surprising_science_of_alpha_male s?language=en[/video]

However, we have conceptualised 'predator', into something more gruesomely, fascinating and maleficent, than the humble truth of the matter. Perhaps our fear of ourselves has made us worship monsters; like the way the ancients worshiped gods that 'required sacrifice'...maybe we are afraid to face our own self-judgement, without turning it into something with a darker, contemptuous meaning...and maybe the real monsters ( the humans who look like humans but have no concscience) use this insecurity, to control us. Who knows. :)
 
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^you spelled 'politicians', wrong.
hahaha

I remember the first time I was really starting to consider a life of crime. I was living in a trailer park on disability with only about $15 a month for spending money (for anything extra that I needed). I was stuck with all my old games, game systems, a tiny flat screen tv, and an xbox360 that was doomed to fail. It really seems funny to mention it at this time, but I started to imagine my way into a house at night nearby. I didn't make it very far... even just in my mind. I imagined getting through the front door to steal shit but then it was a snake curled up getting ready to strike. Maybe it was my conscience. Maybe it was the fear of the houses owner feel his family's safety was in danger and a protective force field broke out to stop me. Maybe it was a spirit or higher intelligence trying to keep me from performing a heinous act.

I've thought about killing before, I guess. Can't remember anything specific. Nothing ever stopped me from imagining punching the shit out of someone. But pretty soon those fantasies turned violent against me and I was the one always getting beat up in my own mind. Things changed when I started to catch on to my own violent tendencies. Not in the way I would act but the way I would look at things. I noticed myself looking at people as if they had a red aura around them like a video game character targeting a bandit. This bothered me enough to want to change that view altogether and not just change it, completely make it over. My hope was to one day have a more beneficent outlook towards those around me and I eventually achieved this through hard work and coping strategies.

As I grew more spiritually aware I honed this skill enough to eventually find friends again and live a decent social life without the need to look at people like things to hurt. But as my perception changed towards others with the rise of my abilities, so too did my sensations of the perceptions of those around me. I started to notice others had this same view that I had once so faithfully done away with. The same view of targeting other people whether consciously or not. I believe the Shaolin monks have the same power/ability/perception after a certain level of training. See the video below... You could say it's just his speed or agility that grants him this feat. I call it The Seventh Sense (all six senses working together as one), but I didn't coin that term. Seventh Sense is very difficult to achieve and besides myself the only ones I can think of who have achieved it are mostly fictional. My shaolin kempo master once told me that after so much training in martial arts eventually you reach a point where, in a serious fight, time literally slows down.

https://youtu.be/opgQd2MMfp4

My understanding of how I originally wound up that way, as to target other people, was due to mostly violence in video games. I guess the same could happen with violent movies too, depending on how people relate to the characters. Some people are conditioned to be violent from a very young age given they don't have the luxury of growing up in a safe and nurturing environment but it amazes me some can come out of it okay and live healthy lives. And there are plenty out there who play live matches against other players in games like Call of Duty and Battlefield and have serious enough anger problems to begin with. Knowing what I know from experience, these are people you would want to steer clear away from.
 
I think the moral of this topic is: we should empty our jails and fill them with chimps.
Those chimps are no joke , I looked it up on you tube. They will rip your balls right off !!!!! And then that's it , what are you gonna do ??
 
You explained that very well.
Thanks! :)


@vastness Wow ! you made ALOT of really good points. I'm on mobile so I can't put what u said in quotes ..
One thing , is I've never thought about karma in that sense. If i were to steal something from a store (or commit return fraud ) something I've seen as harmless. I would be contributing to something similar like with the bank robbery. Though maybe not with the guns. But maybe it's NOT so harmless after all.
And so when we harm others we are in fact paving the way for others to do harm as well. I always thought that was more so with children , but I've seen first hand people who get robbed over and over , turn to robbing others and now they are just as bad.
That always bothered me , that someone could feel like that was the best/only choice. Like if you can't beat em join em. Wtf
Speaking of paving the way for violence, I believe our own governments contribute to human violence and that a scarcity mentality is purposely being imposed on us.
Yeah, just to be clear about the bank robbery thing, I'm not saying that specifically robbing banks will always lead to the extreme things I mentioned, just using it as an example of how dishonest acts usually just feed a self sustaining cycle of vengeance that never ends... It might be of course that the bank you choose to rob has itself been stealing from it's customers and is perpetrating violence elsewhere in the world. Arguably this is what is happening now, and has been happening for a long time with a system that supports the interests of the rich and powerful over those who actually NEED help, and invests in war and technologies that destroy the environment... Usually this happens gradually enough that people can ignore it, with significant causal distance between one individual choosing a particular bank to bank with, and the atrocities committed at the end of a long chain of blood money in some distant country... every now and then we'll get more immediate consequences like the global financial crisis but even then it's the poor and those with the quietest voice in today's world who suffer the most. So it may be arguable that sometimes, depriving these organisations of their power even if in some small way is the morally right and just thing to do, even if the action itself in a vacuum (to steal) would generally be considered to be wrong.

So yeah of course like you say, governments do contribute to these cycles of violence. The War on Drugs and all associated Western meddling in the affairs of far weaker economies to further their own interests is arguably the greatest contributor to the rise of the cartels - everyone involved in creating this horrific situation has blood on their hands.


Anyway , can't we evolve to NOT be slaves at all? What if we own our spiritual nature instead of our animal?
I refuse to think that we are going to let ourselves kill ourselves. Humans will prevail ! Somehow
Maybe, but I think a big part of the problem is that it's just not 100% clear what is right. I think the debate about what exactly is right or wrong is a whole other discussion and is kind of outside the scope of this topic, but say we manage to change our base nature enough that even when we don't agree, we don't engage in violent conflict, we try not to harm anyone and we try not to interfere with other people's lives as long as they don't try to harm anyone else. What's to stop a really destructive idea just spreading unchecked throughout human civilisation?

I think it's possible that our more violent tendencies are inseparable in some ways from the competitive drive to learn, grow, and improve ourselves. It may just not be possible to completely "delete" the urge to selfishness and violence without also nullifying any competitive advantage we might have against the forces of nature and the universe, and our utopian future society where we all treat each other with the utmost respect and live peacefully might just quickly collapse, as we either regress in intelligence and capability until we become violent again, OR are just wiped out by some other predator because everyone is too nice to want to stop them from eating us... like lions... or chimpanzees. :\


Those chimps are no joke , I looked it up on you tube. They will rip your balls right off !!!!! And then that's it , what are you gonna do ??
Yeah, not to derail this topic too much with stomach churning monkey stories but I just read an article the other day about a monkey in China that ripped off a baby's testicle in front of the baby's mum and ate it... 8( I've never been to anywhere yet that has monkeys just roaming free but I think if I do I will be wearing armour plated underwear. I'd choose being eaten by a lion over being torn apart by a chimp any day...
 
There some things that i would do and there is some things that I wouldnt do. I would personally never stab someone I'm with even if jail didn't exist. I'm not judging you for having those thoughts though because theres lots of crazy fucked up things that I would do if jail didn't exist. Some things i don't even feel comfortable saying on here.

But to answer your other question, i think its cuz we are disconnected from eachother and we just need to work together as a human species and become aligned with our true selves. Because a lot of our behaviours is because of tv and media influencing the masses and changing their behaviors and ideologies and theres a lot of people , including myself, that live in a fictional world and have values that are backwards because of it. But it also has to do with the people you grew up with and your environment influencing your values as well and passing certain behaviors on to you.

The only reason why we want to do bad things is because we dont understand that everything in this universe is connected and anything you do is ultimately gonna come back to you or end up hurting someone that is important to you and end up hurting humanity as a whole. Even if its something that you think only affects you. We focus too much on ourselves and our own problems and we disconnect ourselves from that unifying aspect of reality and disconnect ourselves from the people around us and we see everything separately. It is the same reason why any major societal problem occurs such as racism, pedophilia, school shootings and so on.

We have to teach our society to be more in touch with their feelings and more in touch with the people around us whether we know them or not and we have to practice seeing everything and everyone as part of ourselves. If we have that state of mind then nobody would want to kill or do any harm to anybody because they would know that they are only doing it to themselves.
 
If it weren't for prison I would have killed the one love who has hurt me the most, not because I hate him, but because if I can't have him then NOBODY can.
 
If it weren't for prison I would have killed the one love who has hurt me the most, not because I hate him, but because if I can't have him then NOBODY can.

Sounds like the justice system was designed with you in mind. Nutter...
 
There are many people i wouldn t care if they were killed in front of me. I think of rapists, especially child rapists for instance. I don't like violence but if someone would assault my son i d definitely love to have the right to kill him myself without risking jail. And i d have no remorse for that.
 
Well, my thing is i never get angry to the point of wanting to kill someone. If i were to kill someone, it would be just for the "high".

TBH, going to prison is really my baseline reason of why i don't do a lot of things. My desires are fairly limitless, in the sense that i would try just about anything for a new high/experience. Not sure if that is a result of my Bipolar of my "antisocial traits", but i'm always looking for that high. And if it weren't for the law, unfortunately, i would want to at least try a lot of sketchy things.

I don't know how i would feel after, though. Maybe guilty, but i'm not exactly sure. So while the high is most of the reason, the other reason is curiosity as how far reaching my emotions go.
 
I guess it depends on what "it" is. As far as hurting other people, no, I wouldn't, because to me it's an issue of personal morality to not cause harm to others except if absolutely necessary to defend oneself or a loved one. If it comes to drugs... well, honestly prison seems abstract the way I use drugs, I get them from good friends or the Internet and I pretty much do what I want to do there, but I probably would have gone way harder early on when I was still scared of that. I'd ultimately be afraid if prison/social repercussions didn't exist because of what other people would choose to do... it would become the rule of the aggressive/strong, and it doesn't fit my personality to be that way.
 
The threat of prison does not motivate me the least bit to do the right thing, if that is what you are asking. When I do the right thing it is because my conscious called and I answered. Some times we know not what we do and therefor are unconscious of the harm we cause but is that because we are not afraid of prison or because we do not know any better? I think your question is a bit silly, to be honest, so this is just food for thought.
 
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