• DPMC Moderators: thegreenhand | tryptakid
  • Drug Policy & Media Coverage Welcome Guest
    View threads about
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Drug Busts Megathread Video Megathread

Octopuses have similar reactions to MDMA as humans

FlawedByDesign

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
1,894
Found this to be pretty interesting, albeit possibly unethical.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/09/20/648788149/octopuses-get-strangely-cuddly-on-the-mood-drug-ecstasy

Octopuses are almost entirely antisocial, except when they're mating, and scientists who study them have to house them separately so they don't kill or eat each other. However, octopuses given the drug known as MDMA (or ecstasy, E, Molly or a number of other slang terms) wanted to spend more time close to other octopuses and even hugged them.

The eight-legged invertebrates are separated from humans by more than 500 million years of evolution, Pungor says. Octopuses' closest relatives are creatures like snails and slugs, and their brains have a host of strange structures that evolved on a completely different trajectory from the human path.

They have this huge complex brain that they've built, that has absolutely no business acting like ours does ? but here they show that it does," says Pungor. "The fact that they induced this very sort of gentle, cuddly behavior is really pretty fascinating
 
Not unethical whatsoever, and very interesting results. Octopuses can be very intelligent.
 
They posted this in my local paper as well. Here's some more on it:

Scientists gave octopuses ecstasy to investigate our shared past of social behaviour

10282660-3x2-large.jpg


Scientists in the US gave octopuses ecstasy — for a good reason.

They discovered fascinating insights into how social behaviour is coded, and traced its biological roots to a common ancestor of ours that lived around 500 million years ago.

The work, led by neuroscientist Gul Dolen from Johns Hopkins University, was published today in Current Biology.

Because brains are soft and mushy, they tend to be eaten or decay long before they can be fossilised and preserved.

This means we don't really have any physical evidence of how our brains have developed over time.

So researchers must think laterally — and come up with ideas like giving 3,4-methylenedioxy-methamphetamine or MDMA, commonly called ecstasy, to octopuses.

Why give ecstasy to an octopus?
Ecstasy works, in part, by flooding the brain with a chemical called serotonin.

Among its effects, this makes people more sociable than normal.

But octopuses mostly prefer a lonesome life — they're not known to socialise with each other outside mating.

So the question was: if serotonin encodes social behaviour in people, would it have the same effect on octopuses?

Or to put it another way, if you give ecstasy to an octopus, would it be telling its friends it loved them at three o'clock in the morning with eight lollipops in its tentacles?

And if we better understand how social behaviour is coded, can that help us to fix things when they go awry in people?

How much ecstasy do you give an octopus?

If you've never given ecstasy to an octopus, working out the proper dose — and how to administer it — is the first hurdle.

Octopuses breathe by flushing water across their gills, like a fish.

So Dr Dolen and her colleagues added ecstasy to a beaker of water and gave a species of octopus, Octopus bimaculoides, a 10-minute bath.

"I have to admit that it was totally trial and error. Honestly, I just didn't think this was going to work, so we started out at super high doses," she said.

"But the animals went through this hyper-vigilance where they were perched at the top of the tank like a hawk trying to watch a mouse or something."

Surprised by the octopuses' sensitivity to the drug, the researchers scaled back the dose.

"When we gave them the dose that you'd give a human, but adjusted for body weight, they started acting just like you'd expect a human to," Dr Dolen said.

Once suitably dosed, it was experiment time.

The setup consisted of a tank with three chambers linked by small openings that a test octopus in the centre chamber could move through.

10286800-3x2-medium.jpg


An object such as a flower pot was placed in the left chamber and another octopus trapped in the right.

Without ecstasy, test octopuses spent significantly more time in the chamber with the object. But with ecstasy, they became more social, preferring the chamber with the other octopus in it.

And the nature of the interactions between octopuses changed too.

Before a dose of ecstasy, social interactions were "limited, usually to one extended arm", the scientists wrote in the paper.

"After MDMA treatment, social interactions were characterised by extensive ventral surface contact, which appeared to be exploratory rather than aggressive in nature," they said.

The researchers also developed a system to quantify octopus behavioural changes after being given ecstasy.

Unfortunately, some behavioural changes were outside the scope of classification.

"They were really interested in touching; instead of reaching out with one arm, they'd reach out with six to handle the flowerpot, and they looked more relaxed in their posture," Dr Dolen said.

"Another octopus was doing backflips and looked like he was playing in the water, but we don't have good ways of quantifying that."

So what does getting octopuses high actually tell us?
From these early results, and a sample size of four octopuses, the researchers believe that serotonin does encode their social behaviour.

Although octopuses are generally solitary animals, Zoe Doubleday from the University of Adelaide, who was not involved with the study, said they quickly adapt to different environments.

"Even when you work with octopuses in tanks, they all have quite different personalities," Dr Doubleday said.

A group of around 15 octopuses were discovered last year living in an octopus "city", nicknamed "Octlantis", in Jervis Bay on Australia's east coast.

Dr Doubleday said it was possible octopuses are more social than we think, but they require certain environmental triggers to display that behaviour.

Although there probably needs to be more research to conclude that serotonin produces a social response, she said there was little question of the effects of alcohol on octopuses.

"We use alcohol as an anaesthetic. Alcohol knocks them out," she said.

Dr Dolen and her team also delved into the octopus genome to find clues of social behaviour.

In humans, the SLC6A4 gene encodes a protein that transports serotonin. This protein is targeted by ecstasy, which increases the release of serotonin in the brain and blocks its reuptake.

And it turns out octopuses have something similar. Dr Dolen and her team identified a SLC6A4 ortholog — a gene that has retained the same function in the octopus.

They said they believed social behaviour was present in our common ancestor more than 500 million years ago but was "switched off" in octopuses.

There is currently a renaissance in research into the potential benefits of psychotropic drugs such as ecstasy, LSD and psilocybin, the compound found in hallucinogenic mushrooms.

Ecstasy has been shown to potentially help in the treatment of post-traumatic stress disorder, and psilocybin in the treatment of depression and anxiety disorders, for instance.

Dr Dolen's lab is investigating how the brain encodes social behaviour, and how that relates to autism and schizophrenia.

If MDMA switches on social behaviour in octopuses, further research may yield insights into how those processes work, she said.

"If we understand how social behaviour is coded, we can better understand how that goes wrong."


Source: http://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2018-09-21/octopus-ecstasy-mdma-social-behaviour/10280706
 
On one hand I do think it’s possibly unethical to change the internal ecosystem of a being that we cannot communicate with, on the other hand, any animal that goes from tearing each other apart to cuddling would probably thank us. My only other worry is that since their brain is so different than ours, there may be some unknown implications. Hopefully no year long comedowns for the octopus.
 
Not sure how I feel in the end about this story (conflicted for obvious reasons).
 
I'm not a vegetarian but I do feel bad about eating octopus. Even though they certainly are no more intelligent than a small child and I would have no issues eating a small child. (j/k)

Maybe we need a good slogan to save the octopuses.

EAT PUSSY, NOT OCTOPUS!
 
This came up in EADD too. I'll say here what I did there. While I still eat squid calamari, I won't eat octopus anymore. Had an encounter with one while scuba diving in turkey, Turned over the shell of a huge sea snail, only it wasn't a snail inside, it was a young common octopus (Octopus vulgaris), which shot out and promptly clamped itself on my face=D

Cute little bugger, very inquisitive, and if I can assign such to a cephalopod, playful, quite happy walking around my arms and hands, exploring the brand new addition to it's environment (I.e me, and first, my face). Quite hilarious having it come racing out of the shell and launch itself at me, sticking itself on my head, facehugger style.

Definitely intelligence there, and I've read some quite amazing (for an animal) tricks they have taught themselves, such as squirting jets of water at power outlets, doing so by chance, and then learning to do it, to short out the electricity and provide it cover to sneak out of it's tank (they are notorious escape artists) and into a tank full of fish, go for a snack and then sneak back to it's tank again, after stuffing it's face. Pretty neat trick, learning to short the mains out with a jet of salt water.
 
This came up in EADD too. I'll say here what I did there. While I still eat squid calamari, I won't eat octopus anymore. Had an encounter with one while scuba diving in turkey, Turned over the shell of a huge sea snail, only it wasn't a snail inside, it was a young common octopus (Octopus vulgaris), which shot out and promptly clamped itself on my face=D

Cute little bugger, very inquisitive, and if I can assign such to a cephalopod, playful, quite happy walking around my arms and hands, exploring the brand new addition to it's environment (I.e me, and first, my face). Quite hilarious having it come racing out of the shell and launch itself at me, sticking itself on my head, facehugger style.

Definitely intelligence there, and I've read some quite amazing (for an animal) tricks they have taught themselves, such as squirting jets of water at power outlets, doing so by chance, and then learning to do it, to short out the electricity and provide it cover to sneak out of it's tank (they are notorious escape artists) and into a tank full of fish, go for a snack and then sneak back to it's tank again, after stuffing it's face. Pretty neat trick, learning to short the mains out with a jet of salt water.

I believe I've also seen videoclips of them using four of their tentacles to pick up those same huge sea snail shells (or perhaps smaller ones), and then they use the remaining four tentacles to run along the seafloor. And the way it's done, it looks like the poor buggers are struggling to lug around an excessively heavy boulder as if it's positioned in a strapped position onto the backs of humans (while our 2 hands grip onto it) and then attempting to flee from a dangerous neighborhood. And hands down, the end result is freakin' adorable all the time in my opinion.

Now, obviously I realize that my brain is programmed to recognize familiar patterns in nature, which in this context aids in yielding a convincing analog (well, convincing enough for this purpose) that continues to amuse me. But at the same time, the brainpower required to perform such a task (while not explicitly quantized, to my knowledge at least) certainly suggests that those little guys are considerably more intelligent than today's boilerplate homo sapien hailing from a western nation may be led to believe.

Admittedly, I've taken some flak closer to home for having mixed feelings regarding this scoop, which, is due to my attempts to empathize with a living organism I know next to nothing about. But, broadly speaking, empathy is also what I've repeatedly credited with impacting my views on the War on Drugs as well as Harm Reduction. And the ability to grasp such a mental state so intimately is certainly something I value rather than detest or regret (and it indeed can be exploited, but it comes with the territory, so to speak). And with that, I think it's best for me to move along, good day.
 
Last edited:
I'd totally roll my ass off with an octopus. Bet they give the best hugs and massages.
 
Top