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    Alcohol-like 
    #1
    It's no surprise that QH-II-66 is subjectively like alcohol but I'm interested to know if anyone has experienced the following to see if they are also alcohol-like

    -Etchlorvynol
    -Ethinamate
    -Hexapropymate
    -Methylpentynol
    -Clocental
    -Centalun


    A VERY na?ve logic in that a terminal alkyne is present with a hydroxyl or carbamate ester of the hydroxyl. I DID discover that etchlorvynol binds at the benzodiazepine site(s) as does it's carbamate but I don't know if it's at all selective. I DID try 2-methylbutan-2-yl carbamate and that WAS very alcohol-like and being a lot more potent meant that a dose fits into a couple of gel-caps. Things like clomethiazole & it's oxazole analogue do stop alcohol cravings and certainly are downers but they aren't like alcohol.
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    #2
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    Did you intend for this thread to go in N&PD rather than here?

    Think this might need moving chaps
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    #3
    im interested in alcohol like substances because im sick of binging on those stupid bottles. pissing and shitting yourself from too much is annoying. so CFC either contribute or dont post at all
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    #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by asecin View Post
    so CFC either contribute or dont post at all
    CFC moved the thread here from a different forum. That's what his comment means; he wasn't criticizing.
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    #5
    Bluelighter Help?!?!'s Avatar
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    Not tried ethinimate but I have tried plain 1-ethynylcyclohexanol and other alcohols like n-propanol, etc. 1 ethynyl is like a barbituate/GHB like. Every other alcohol I tried was superior to ethanol. Some of them work similarly to ethanol and others work on barbituate receptor sites or other GABA sites.
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    #6
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    But in terms of safety research and longevity of use, you can otherwise play the guinea pig.
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    #7
    Have tried 2-methyl-2-butanol. Far superior to ethanol, potency means it's dosed like one would GBL, in the ml range, so no nasty burning in the throat. Cleaner than EtOH too, being a tertiary alcohol means that it is far more resistant to oxidative metabolism into nasty aldehyde or ketonic metabolites. Aldehydes seem to be very hard on the body in general, and acetaldehyde from EtOH metabolism is responsible for a lot of the horrid hangoer effects.

    You've tried the oxazole homologue of chlormethiazole clubcard? what was it like? you've caught my interest now. What about the oxazole homologue of bromethiazole? might be worth a go too.
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    #8
    2-methyl-2-butanol tastes terrible. It's carbamate ester is a solid soluble in water so something you can really use as an alcohol alternative.

    Check out ALL of the old hypnotics with a quaternary alcohol - the carbamates are ALL much more potent. The question is - is onset as fast as ethanol. 2M2B carbamate is a water-soluble solid with little to no taste. If it's onset is as fast as ethanol then it is a possible alternative.
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    #9
    how the hell do you guys have access to those novel alcohols anyway. honest to god, dealing with ethanol for so many years, i wanna get the fuck out of this chain. but all those substances you talk about, are forbidden to the common folk and he is to suffer. anyway, not looking for sources, just commenting on this
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    #10
    ^ if you can’t buy them, make them,
    if you can’t make them, buy them.
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Pomzazed View Post
    ^ if you can?t buy them, make them,
    if you can?t make them, buy them.
    If you can't buy them, have them made in another country and tested in a 3rd.

    Use Reaxys and through the journals & patents referenced.
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    #12
    so, possibility of finding those alcohol like substances is near impossible. im not going to ask a company to make them specifically for me lol
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    #13
    Bluelighter Help?!?!'s Avatar
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    It's fucking simple man. These sorts of things anyone can have or buy....for the most part.
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    #14
    uh yeah ok. unless you send msg with more explaination, im really confused here
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    #15
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    Their chemicals that for the most part don't require anything but money too buy. Some of them do. Some in the OP won't be found and some need licensing. You can buy 2-Methyl-2-Butanol on one of the most popular big sales sites online. It's like a river...
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    #16
    Well I wouldn't be pointing out sources but I have noted that it seems like on-line suppliers are sailing close to the wind. Certainly tert-amyl carbamate was offered by one of the UKs biggest solvent suppliers. These guys sell those 1000l cubes of solvents to seemingly anyone so it looks like the market is ignoring the PSA law. A couple of decades ago I saw people buying 1000l of GBL for basic hydrolysis and considered that MANY solvents are dual use, how on earth can anyone police such a huge industry? Madness.
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    #17
    Of course it's going to be bat shit mental. What else do you expect from a pack of bloody drug war fanatic inbred cretins?

    Its politicians competing to climb the greasy pole ever higher than the rest of their half-wit, self-serving hypocrite rivals, and to compete on how deep they can insert their heads into their own small intestines..you can't really hope for anything BUT stupid fucking horse shit, lies and hypocrisy.

    And as for solvents, well they can't really practically ban every solvent which could have psychoactive effects. Not to imply its a good idea, but pretty much most of them could be put to such use. They certainly couldn't enforce a ban on ether, chloroform etc. because they have such vast industrial, scientific and clandestine chemistry applications.
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    #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Help?!?! View Post
    Their chemicals that for the most part don't require anything but money too buy. Some of them do. Some in the OP won't be found and some need licensing. You can buy 2-Methyl-2-Butanol on one of the most popular big sales sites online. It's like a river...
    I'd had around a liter of 2-Methyl-2-Butanol years ago, stuff tastes horrid. Used oral syringe to measure 7mls and then mixed it up with juice. The feeling was nice similar to a benzo/alcohol combination. They also have Diethyl Ether...

    I remember getting a pretty rough hangover from 2M2B
    Only used it a handful of times, mostly out of curiosity. Had a number of pure benzo powders at the time and stuck with those.
    Last edited by Muddy Glow; 10-11-2018 at 16:27.
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    #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limpet_Chicken View Post
    Of course it's going to be bat shit mental. What else do you expect from a pack of bloody drug war fanatic inbred cretins?

    Its politicians competing to climb the greasy pole ever higher than the rest of their half-wit, self-serving hypocrite rivals, and to compete on how deep they can insert their heads into their own small intestines..you can't really hope for anything BUT stupid fucking horse shit, lies and hypocrisy.

    And as for solvents, well they can't really practically ban every solvent which could have psychoactive effects. Not to imply its a good idea, but pretty much most of them could be put to such use. They certainly couldn't enforce a ban on ether, chloroform etc. because they have such vast industrial, scientific and clandestine chemistry applications.
    And you can also get high off nitrogen gas if you can produce controlled elevated-pressure conditions...

    Those storms of insults are very similar to my own sense of humor, except that I wouldn't use the word "cretin" as such because it's something that affects the poorest people in the world and is never someone's own fault.
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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Glow View Post
    I remember getting a pretty rough hangover from 2M2B
    Only used it a handful of times, mostly out of curiosity. Had a number of pure benzo powders at the time and stuck with those.
    Very true - that's why I pointed out that one of Europe's biggest bulk-solvent businesses are offering 2-methylbutan-2-yl carbamate in single Kg units. For everything else, you have to order 1000l cubes or even tankers of their product but this one item is different. A nice 1l bottle with the full REACH data-set with, ironically, toxicity marked as 4. I don't think that this would be considered a STRONG defence if they were taken to task in a European court but it would be interesting to watch. I wonder what they pretend it's for?

    Before the barbiturates, no work was carried out on how sedative/hypnotics worked so we simply don't know why their is a huge number of low MW (usually under 100) agents with the 3 moieties relied on until the 1940s.

    1-Tertiary hydroxyl (or carbamate ester of same)
    2-Terminal Ethynyl group
    3-Terminal (Pseudo)halide

    What are emylcamate, ethinamate, hexapropymate & procymate if not 2m2B carbamate structural (many even positional) isomers? The addition of a halide is both a chemical and biological puzzle since at the time, -F wasn't available in (relatively) safe formats and -Cl (and even worse -Br) are alkylating agents. Ethchlorvynol & Climethiazole both have electron-withdrawing functions (although the latter is suspect) but their are innumerable patents for sedatives & hypnotics that got no further than the then somewhat cursory animal trials before being dumped because they alkylated the poor things to death. Many of the later barbiturates also incorporated those three moieties but you can see how they shied away from terminal halides. Lessons learned, I presume.

    The web is literally heaving with unlikely vendors of 590-60-3 who seem to lack even the most na?ve self consciousness but it's been going on for the last 6 years to my knowledge so I don't know if it's overlooked, has some valid use I haven't divined or is tacitly accepted on the basis that in practice it's impossible to prevent the trade and if pursued, vendors (who don't sell RCs I note) DO think that they aren't breaking the law.
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    #21
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    How about putting three chlorines on a methyl group in 2M2B? There's two different methyls where that can be done. Is the effectiveness of 1,1,1-TCE much greater than that of ethanol just because of the higher lipid solubility

    Edit: Sorry for the wrong numbering, it is 2,2,2-trichloroethanol... I associated it in my mind to the anesthetic 1,1,1-trichloroethane, which caused that misnumbering.
    Last edited by polymath; 17-11-2018 at 14:47.
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    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by polymath View Post
    How about putting three chlorines on a methyl group in 2M2B? There's two different methyls where that can be done. Is the effectiveness of 1,1,1-TCE much greater than that of ethanol just because of the higher lipid solubility
    If you want stronger, there is a huge range of solvents that are or were used as general anesthetics over the decades. AFAIK things like sulfonmethane aren't controlled but they aren't fun.

    It would appear to be the case that only ethchlorvynol and ethanol produced an associate of recreational users. Make of that what you will. I'm still waiting to find out why Almorexant is a CIII drug in the US.
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    #23
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    I was just theoretically interested in the possibility of 2-trichloromethyl-2-butanol having a shorter duration of effects than chlorbutanol with its notorious 2 week half life... Also, it would be a chiral molecule, allowing the testing of how the subjective effects would depend on stereochemistry.
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    #24
    A trichloromethyl group behaves similar to a halogen in a leaving group aspects,
    Having both CCl3 and OH on the same carbon may not be so stable?
    Maybe decomposed back to a chloroform and an MEK (starting mat for them)
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    #25
    I think you might do better looking closely at the law governing chloral hydrate. 2,2,2-trichloroethanol is the active (metabolized by alcohol dehydrogenase) but I don't think trichloroethanol IS controlled. Forming the hydrate is verboten BUT thanks to that old time chemistry:

    US Patent 425039 - Chloralformamide
    DE Patent 234741 - Chloralacetamide
    DE Patent 498432 - Dichloralurea

    Now that's 1890s chemistry right there.

    For my money I would take a good look at 2,2,2-trichloro-1-hydroxyethyl carbamate

    It's got the halide, it's got the hydroxy and it's got the carbamate.


    All things considered, I would read this first https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cdc.2018.04.002

    To me chloral hydrate falls into the same category as things like quetiapine, gabapentin & amitriptyline. I know people abuse them and I even know people who will pay for the privilege but outside of prisons and secure psychiatric units, just WHO is reduced to abusing stuff like this? I place 2-methylbutan-2-ol in the same bin although I admit that the carbamate is interesting. What is vastly more interesting is 2-methylbut-3-yn-2-yl carbamate. Actually, almost all of the low MW tertiary alcohols have been tested as sedative/hypnotics and the defining feature of them all is a small TI, sudden unexplained deaths and the people working on the production-lines going loopy. I don't mean TEL 'loony gas'/house of butterflies mad- but I mean people ending up in hospital (if they were lucky).

    Why not go with something a bit more euphoric. Nitromethaqualone looked like a bad choice from day 1 but buried in the patent is a NON-mutagenic analogue that is actually more potent. Example 12 looks good and for the real QSAR nerds, swapping the 2-methyl for a 2-fluoromethyl increases potency by an order of magnitude. The proof of the cake and all that but a 714 mimic with just 2.5mg of active and a 50-50 caffeine/paracetamol filler/binder so it smokes clean right off the foil!

    In full disclosure, it's not overly complex to manipulate a 1,4-benzo to produce subjective effects indistinguishable from the original but with fluoronitroqualone out of the bag, the benzo is actually LESS potent (and a lot harder to synth). All I can tell you is that nitrobenzodiazepines have serotonergic activity (which is why they ended up as hypnotics) so if you excise the a1 affinity (all the Z-drugs are a1 selective) then you are left with something midway between MDMA and diazepam. You love everyone and you can speak slowly in a level tone when describing the sexual experiment you want to carry out... regrets... but too few to mention.
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