MDMA Recovery (Stories & Support - 7) [ALL LTC posts go here]

[ZeroLuck]

@ZeroLuck
Don't know about the water fasting but I can tell you skipping a day of sleep is never going to give you any benefit whatsoever. Sleep is required so your brain can flush out all the toxins that accumulate through the day, you're only going to be doing yourself harm by messing around with your sleep pattern. Just thought I'd let you know.

I've read a research article stating that chronic sleep deprivation is decreasing BDNF, but occasional one night stands increases it.

@Dany,

Yeah eating once a day makes me feel the best, but keto is crashing me me, unlike before the ltc when I felt the best on it.

I will given it a go, and endure the flu for 2-3 weeks with hopes to go away. However my current plan is working great. My only carb source through the day is unlimited amount of veggies and every 3-4th day I binge carbs, complex ones, but some pasta, fruits, however avoiding added sugar through the whole plan.

Last two days I've been experiencing natural highs, listening to music being VERY enjoyable. Also I've noticed for first time being humoristic and making people laugh, at least 10-15 times throughout the day, which made me remember my old self, before all the nightmare.

Back to the point with the carbs, I believe they can be used as natural drug if not over consumed and being bery benefitial for the proper neurotransmitters balance. Also veggies are the most nutrient dense carbs food per calorie, that for sure brings extra bonus benefits.

Thanks for the advice with "will try". I'll change my overview.

Good luck bro.

 

[stimul4nt]

MDMA impaired my memory + Recovering from MDMA/stimulant abuse? Serotonin Syndrome?

Hey everyone!

I am for some advice to recover from stimulant abuse! I have taken MDMA and amphetamine which significantly damaged my brain (short-term memory, working memory, long-term memory).

I feel like my brain never really recovered even though years have passed since I took MDMA. In the recent past, I have experimented with Methylphenidate (Ritalin) and Modafinil to "cure" my cognitive issues but the more I read about neurogenesis, I realize I no longer want to take stuff that only masks the real problem. I want to solve the underlying issue and get my brain chemistry and neurotransmitters in balance again, naturally if that is possible.

Does anyone have a good supplement stack for that or any advice? I'm grateful for every advice, especially from those of you who have a similar story!

You can read about my drug habits in the last few years below to get a better understanding of what may help me.

Thanks a lot

PS: I know a good diet (e.g. keto, fasting), physical exercise and meditation are essential and I will start with that ASAP.
So anything on top of that would be great!

My (past) drug habits

MDMA usage:

During 2014, I took MDMA around 8 times with my mates. I was quite careful with the dosages and never took more than 2 pills per night, usually less. In the beginning I took it every other weekend (from my memory) but then I decided to only take it every 4-8 weeks, because serotonin depletion post-rolling made me lethargic and depressed (I usually needed 1 week just to get back to baseline.) Following that year, I only took MDMA 2-3 more times, with 6+ months breaks.

So in total, I assume that I have consumed around 15-20 XTC pills @ 140-180mg MDMA = 2720mg MDMA.

Important Note:

I am from the Netherlands so getting good XTC was not a real issue. Unfortunately, however, I once got a pill containing PMMA. We took it on a warm summer day, first nothing much happened so we slightly re-dosed and then, after some time it kicked in like crazy. At the time I really liked the feeling (not knowing that it was PMMA), the only strange thing was that I was a lot more energized and hectic and I experienced muscle twitches (eye lid and knee caps). Looking back, I assume this was a slight serotonin syndrome? The twitching was rather short-lived and mild, so no medical emergency. I was well hydrated as well.

All that happened between 2014 - 2016, and I haven't taken any MDMA for almost 2 years. Yet, I still don't feel like my brain has fully recovered from the MDMA and 1*PMMA experience, despite the fact that my overall consumption was (subjectively) relatively low to what others have recovered from.


What has changed post-MDMA?

- Severe decline in working memory / short-term memory. This is my biggest issue, since working and short-term memory affect your intelligence the most. I have difficulty formulating (complex) thoughts, and need much more time to fully grasp complex concepts, e.g. when reading research papers it happens that I have to re-read whole paragraphs, etc. The short memory also makes it subjectively harder to see the "big picture" when reading longer articles since my brain is only able to focus on single ideas.

Overall, I haven't gotten much dumber and I can still learn and remember things but it takes a lot more effort. Mainly my fluid intelligence (spontaneous, fast thinking) is impaired due to the fact that my working memory and short-term memory got really bad.

- Decline in long-term memory (likely due to bad short-term memory)

- Decline in motor-skills (learning new skills / task sequences is harder with a bad short-term memory)

 

[ZeroLuck]

Same boat as you man, the overall memory is coming back to me, but... the visual memory is horrible? Like before I could imagine something in my head and simulate a solution? Now it's just blank. :/

 

[stimul4nt]

Same boat as you man, the overall memory is coming back to me, but... the visual memory is horrible? Like before I could imagine something in my head and simulate a solution? Now it's just blank. :/

Exactly, the visual / spacial and verbal memory is like gone. Haven't really found a solution to that issue.
How long have you had the issue? Did you try any treatments or supplements to fix it?

 

[ZeroLuck]

Been 1 year and 10 months, also tried supplements, healthy lifestyle and .etc however it doesn't seem to be long term benefitial.

Geniuses like Albert Einstein had great capabilities of thought experiments, where them simulate visually. Can't help it, but to think it's important.

I've experienced depression and anxiety, which both impair cognition, so I'm pretty lost at where to start.

Don't you think that it's possible to regrow and rewire the brain with practice? Trying to visualize everything in daily life and eventually the brain to catch up like a muscle after atrophy.

 

[stimul4nt]

Been 1 year and 10 months, also tried supplements, healthy lifestyle and .etc however it doesn't seem to be long term benefitial.

Geniuses like Albert Einstein had great capabilities of thought experiments, where them simulate visually. Can't help it, but to think it's important.

I've experienced depression and anxiety, which both impair cognition, so I'm pretty lost at where to start.

Don't you think that it's possible to regrow and rewire the brain with practice? Trying to visualize everything in daily life and eventually the brain to catch up like a muscle after atrophy.

May I ask which exact supplements you tried? I have been taking Multivitamins and Fish Oil (Omega 3) on a daily basis for some time for overall health. I hoped it may help with cognition, but I feel like it isn't enough. Also experimented with stuff like L-Tyrosine, L-Tryptophan, Inositol, Choline-Bitartrate and a few other things that are supposedly good for cognitive function. But this hasn't really helped tremendously either - and are more or less short-term solutions anyway. I can't envision myself taking numerous supplements forever, I want to get my brain chemistry in balance again and be done with it

If I am informed correctly, MDMA may impact the hippocampus and blood flow to certain areas of the brain. So my hypothesis is, that the blood flow to the areas for short-term-memory or visual / verbal memory has been reduced, so they function less efficiently. That's just my personal explanation, have to do more research on that though.

Rewiring your brain is definitely possible but takes time and practice, its quite effective to tackle anxiety and depression without SSRIs. You basically have to continuously force your brain to think positive, so the neural pathways for positivity become stronger than those pathways for anxiety and negativity. Every time you think a thought, the neural connections for that thought become stronger - so try to make a habit out of positive thinking even though it may sound esoterical. I read quite a bit about this stuff and it actually makes sense to me.

Regrowing your brain may go hand in hand with rewiring, but I am very skeptic about the ability to regrow areas of the brain that have been damaged(?). Nonetheless, you may want to look into that more, because there are prescription medications for people who had brain injury that help to regrow the brain (look for "neurogenesis"). This will be my last resort, because it is somewhat experimental (some of the medications have never been tested on humans in clinical trials).

What you say about depression and anxiety being able to impair cognition is very true. I just learned about that recently and think that may also play a major role, as described by this model (https://www.memorylosstest.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/stress-anxiety-cortisol.png). I will look into ways to reduce my stress; I already started exercising this week and will look into meditation and natural remedies for anxiety/stress (CBD Oil, Valerian).

 

[Andon]

During 2014, I took MDMA around 8 times with my mates. I was quite careful with the dosages and never took more than 2 pills per night, usually less. In the beginning I took it every other weekend (from my memory) but then I decided to only take it every 4-8 weeks, because serotonin depletion post-rolling made me lethargic and depressed (I usually needed 1 week just to get back to baseline.) Following that year, I only took MDMA 2-3 more times, with 6+ months breaks.

So in total, I assume that I have consumed around 15-20 XTC pills @ 140-180mg MDMA = 2720mg MDMA.

Did you get afterglows from your rolls? Positive effects and mood in the following days? Everything that you describe from after effects is kind of negative.
You say that you were careful with dosages but it sounds like those 2 pill nights were way too much for you. Those 140-200 mg dutch pills hit hard.
Smaller doses --> better effects especially in longer term, you have to respect it

Anyhow, what's done is done. I don't think I have much to help but you seem to have a lot of things going well (motivation, awareness, healthy habits) so stick to those and also try to gain some new perspective from things like travelling (outside Europe), perhaps psychedelics and spirituality. Don't get too fixated in the supplements and nootropics.

 

[ZeroLuck]

May I ask which exact supplements you tried? I have taken Multivitamins, Fish Oil (Omega 3), Ginko Biloba, and antioxidants (Vitamin C, OPC Grape Seed Extract) on a daily basis for some time for overall health. I hoped it may help with cognition, but I feel like it isn't enough. Also experimented with stuff like L-Tyrosine, L-Tryptophan, Inositol, Choline-Bitartrate and a few other "brain supplements" that are supposedly good for cognitive function. But this hasn't really helped tremendously either - and are more or less short-term solutions anyway. I can't envision myself taking numerous supplements forever, I want to get my brain chemistry in balance again and be done with it

If I am informed correctly, MDMA may impact the hippocampus and blood flow to certain areas of the brain. So my hypothesis is, that the blood flow to the areas for short-term-memory or visual / verbal memory has been reduced, so they function less efficiently. That's just my personal explanation, have to do more research on that though.

Rewiring your brain is definitely possible but takes time and practice, its quite effective to tackle anxiety and depression without SSRIs. You basically have to continuously force your brain to think positive, so the neural pathways for positivity become stronger than those pathways for anxiety and negativity. Every time you think a thought, the neural connections for that thought become stronger - so try to make a habit out of positive thinking even though it may sound esoterical. I read quite a bit about this stuff and it actually makes sense to me.

Regrowing your brain may go hand in hand with rewiring, but I am very skeptic about the ability to regrow areas of the brain that have been damaged(?). Nonetheless, you may want to look into that more, because there are prescription medications for people who had brain injury that help to regrow the brain (look for "neurogenesis"). This will be my last resort, because it is somewhat experimental (some of the medications have never been tested on humans in clinical trials).

What you say about depression and anxiety being able to impair cognition is very true. I just learned about that recently and think that may also play a major role, as described by this model (https://www.memorylosstest.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/stress-anxiety-cortisol.png). I will look into ways to reduce my stress; I already started exercising this week and will look into meditation and natural remedies for anxiety/stress (CBD Oil, Valerian).

What supplements... Hmm. Multivitamins, Omega 3, L-theanine, SAM-E, Curcumin + Piperine, 5-HTP, Magnesium, Zinc, B Complex, dunno maybe another 4-5, can't recall. The most useful were Curcumin + Piperine, Magnesium and Zinc.

About neurogenesis I Know there's contradiction in the science community, however...

https://www.the-scientist.com/daily...enesis-found-in-adult-humans-hippocampi-30050
Researchers identified thousands of immature neurons in the brain region, countering a recent result showing little, if any, signs of neurogenesis.
She says the latest work in Cell Stem Cell is notable because it uses stereology?the gold standard of neurogenesis studies in animals?to count immature and mature neurons in the hippocampi of healthy humans.

So even if there's a lot of immature neurons and the number is not mindblowing, with years of positive/healthy lifestyle it should reach a point where our mediocre impairments vanish, no?


@Andon

I've rolled at 0.6g and it was incredible, the day after as well. Wasn't worth the depersenalization and horrible memory that hit me later.

 

[stimul4nt]

Did you get afterglows from your rolls? Positive effects and mood in the following days? Everything that you describe from after effects is kind of negative.
You say that you were careful with dosages but it sounds like those 2 pill nights were way too much for you. Those 140-200 mg dutch pills hit hard.
Smaller doses --> better effects especially in longer term, you have to respect it

Anyhow, what's done is done. I don't think I have much to help but you seem to have a lot of things going well (motivation, awareness, healthy habits) so stick to those and also try to gain some new perspective from things like travelling (outside Europe), perhaps psychedelics and spirituality. Don't get too fixated in the supplements and nootropics.

Yeah, I was new to the stuff and didn't know better Usually, it was more like 1 pill for starters and then re-dosing with another half or something. But still, you're right. On some occasions, I did have afterglows and a positive mood, especially in the beginning I loved it and had no issues whatsoever. In the beginning, my mood and motivation also didn't crash every time after I rolled. That only happened later on, I attribute that to the depletion of serotonin. Once or twice, we also took MDMA two days in a row, so not really "safer use". I also didn't know about any supplements that may prevent neurotoxicity (see rollsafe.org) so I never took any supplements.

It has actually already helped me quite a bit to write this post, to get a better awareness for what is going on and what may help me to fix it. In the past 2 years I more or less just hoped/assumed things will get better by themselves. Maybe taking amphetamines and other stimulants has also impeded the recovery, will see.

Thanks for the recommendations as well! I see the supplements mainly as a short-term solution to "reset" or rebalance my brain chemistry. I don't think it's a viable solution to depend on numerous supplements forever, especially nootropics.

What supplements... Hmm. Multivitamins, Omega 3, L-theanine, SAM-E, Curcumin + Piperine, 5-HTP, Magnesium, Zinc, B Complex, dunno maybe another 4-5, can't recall. The most useful were Curcumin + Piperine, Magnesium and Zinc.

About neurogenesis I Know there's contradiction in the science community, however...

https://www.the-scientist.com/daily...enesis-found-in-adult-humans-hippocampi-30050
Researchers identified thousands of immature neurons in the brain region, countering a recent result showing little, if any, signs of neurogenesis.
She says the latest work in Cell Stem Cell is notable because it uses stereology?the gold standard of neurogenesis studies in animals?to count immature and mature neurons in the hippocampi of healthy humans.

So even if there's a lot of immature neurons and the number is not mindblowing, with years of positive/healthy lifestyle it should reach a point where our mediocre impairments vanish, no?

I am no neuroscientist (although I must say this stuff increasingly interests me), so I can't give a definite answer regarding your question.
But a healthy, low-stress lifestyle with a good diet and exercise is never wrong I suppose

Those supplements are a good start! Have you ever tried adaptogenic herbs like Ashwagandha, Lion's Mane, Ginseng or Bacopa Monnieri? they are supposedly also very helpful with getting the brain chemistry in balance again. don't plan to take them long-term just for 8-12 weeks, to see if there is a change. No clue if that change would be permanent though :/ As a side note, all those herbs are very well-researched and have been used for decades/centuries, so they are pretty safe even when taking them long term.

Curcumin + Piperine and B-vitamins are also on my list, thanks for the tip!

 

[Andon]

Thanks for the recommendations as well! I see the supplements mainly as a short-term solution to "reset" or rebalance my brain chemistry. I don't think it's a viable solution to depend on numerous supplements forever, especially nootropics.

Yeah it's not like I'm speaking against supplements, I've used a bunch and still do. It's just that they don't really improve you as a person (as such), and that's kind of what you're after.

 

[stimul4nt]

@Andon

Yes agreed, I pretty much have the same outlook. I just want to take as many as "needed" but still as little as possible if that makes sense. In regards to nootropics, I consider them mostly a short-term fix, that isn't really solving the root cause. I still have hope that I may be able to get back to baseline, without taking stimulants on a regular basis.

I am just curious if some nootropics may be able to restore some of my cognitive ability long-term by changing the wiring of my brain? So far I haven't taken any real nootropics, because if it's not long-term it's not really of interest to me.

 

[Dany657]

@srimul4nt Serotonin plays a bigger role in visual memory than any other neurotransmitter. Though others are more known for learning abilities like motor skills, serotonin can still affect these skills especially post mdma. 5-htp may or may not help your situation but if you haven't tried it, give it a go. You're on the right track with keto and fasting! I've only been doing it for two weeks(with OMAD) and have gotten results that I deem to be promising in the long term. If 5-htp doesn't work and you want to accelerate your healing results that you're getting from your keto & fasting plan, you should look into getting your hormones tested. If they come back low like for every person on here whose results I've seen, look into hcg injections with trt.

 

[stimul4nt]

@srimul4nt Serotonin plays a bigger role in visual memory than any other neurotransmitter. Though others are more known for learning abilities like motor skills, serotonin can still affect these skills especially post mdma. 5-htp may or may not help your situation but if you haven't tried it, give it a go. You're on the right track with keto and fasting! I've only been doing it for two weeks(with OMAD) and have gotten results that I deem to be promising in the long term. If 5-htp doesn't work and you want to accelerate your healing results that you're getting from your keto & fasting plan, you should look into getting your hormones tested. If they come back low like for every person on here whose results I've seen, look into hcg injections with trt.

Thank you for the encouraging advice! I have been doing Intermittent Fasting for a few months and totally agree it helps with mental clarity / lowers fatigue. So it won't be that of a big change in my habits Right now, I am still on a 50% carb diet (lots of rice, oats, etc) so I will have to stop that. The only thing that holds me back right now is that I have to come up with a keto meal plan (OMAD) that isn't prohibitively expensive due to the focus on protein (meat, fish) and vegetables. But with enough healthy fats, I guess it will be ok. :D

I also read about the hormones/thyroid thing yesterday, at least if you are talking about the MDMA treatment proposed by Jeffrey Dach M.D.?
Have you personal experience with this treatment or do you know of people who did it? May it be the case that I'd have to take the HCG + TRT continously or just one "treatment cycle". The problem I see with TRT is that it shuts down natural testosterone production, no? (I am still quite young to get a TRT prescription).
But I will keep it in mind!

I have taken 5-HTP and L-Tyrosine on and off during the time I was rolling, usually, a day before and afterwards to help with serotonin production. I have pinpointed my issues to be more related to GABA and Dopamine deficiencies, Serotonin is mostly fine. I don't feel sad or depressed, I just developed some social anxiety, which has probably to do with a high level of stress. I am actively trying to reduce my stress levels now, I didn't know how bad it is for anxiety and overall well-being.

 

[eLW]

I think your brain works pefectly fine

 

[Dany657]

@stimul4nt I'm glad you're gonna get yourself off those carbs during your recovery, for me it's been helpful. A key thing to remember is that all carbs even if they are coming from sugar alcohols or fiber count towards the daily carb limit, which really should be around 20 per day. Here is what I mainly eat to get to my 150g+ fat goal and 75g or less protein goal: all natural beef burgers, whey, cheese(just aim for types with a close fat to protein ratio), eggs. For the amount of fat I don't get from those high protein foods I'll usually obtain by drinking large amounts of heavy cream. The key to choosing a brand is making sure it has zero carbs(since you'll likely be consuming a lot) and no carageenan(a carcinogen common in cream). I understand this isn't a whole lot to choose from, definitely search for more if you need to but understand also that our diet is more likely to seem like science than pleasure and that just is what it is until we recover.

Yes that article. I have only sought LTC treatment so far from natural and nonprescription means and I plan on sticking to it that way. Like I said it could speed up your recovery, I just prefer to do this by increasing hcg, hgh, and others naturally through keto with OMAD. I know I've read several users posts on here saying how it's helped them recover. Only one username comes to mind at the moment which is @socrilus. He used trt along with bpc-157 which ended his LTC. I wouldn't give the bpc-157 a try unless you very carefully monitor your symptoms as you take it. Why? I got a 2-3 week setback in my recovery from one dose. But like you said, it's something to keep in mind depending on how keto and OMAD help you(which I really believe they will.)

If you'd like to attempt to normalize your neurotransmitter levels(which is done mainly with amino acids) let me know. I don't think it'll cure your symptoms, it'll just likely improve to a degree quality of life while you recover.

 

[ZeroLuck]

"it'll just likely improve to a degree quality of life while you recover."

Do we know if we actually recover and what's the mechanism.

On the side, I can't help, but worry that you guys have way richer dictionary, better lexicality and grammar. Meanwhile my messages are like from a typical meth head... When I compare essays from University before my LTC it appears my writing is like from two different people.

Good news is that I'm not depressed anymore or as anxious (at least my thoughts).

 

[Dany657]

@ZeroLuck I should've specified. I'm talking about the amino acids improving quality of life while you recover(and after if you stick to them.) keto and fasting with exercise are likely to be more of a long term aid for LTC's. Hopefully it cures it! If not be sure to give the article's advice on treatment a go. As you know every case is individual in terms of recovery and it's duration, it's your job not to give up hope!

 

[Dany657]

@stimul4nt Also, get off Modafinil & methylphenidate. The brain needs time to heal itself and these will only slow it down or possibly even inhibit it all together. Your neurotransmitters need a break from artificial stimulation.

 

[Dany657]

Hello again everyone! It's been two weeks so here is my as promised update with keto & OMAD. It's been overall a positive experience. I've been a bit more irritable and anxious than usual, not to mention getting a keto rash and having only been able to sleep six hours the past several days but I do feel as if it's working along with exercise and the fewer supplements I'm now taking, besides those pesky symptoms are likely to subside as my minor keto flu does leaving only benefits! I feel more mental clarity than when I started and would definitely say that these past 2 weeks have had more improvement than simply eating all 'healthy' with exercise in the past. I've already decided that I plan on sticking to keto & OMAD until at least June of next year. With the rate it's healing my symptoms, there's practically no possibility my LTC won't be finished some time before then as long as I stick to my current plan. Everybody, keep pushing on!

 

[stimul4nt]

I think your brain works pefectly fine

It may seem like that on the surface, but a few forum posts can't convey the whole picture thb. In my opinion, there is a lot of confirmation bias ("I have no issues, so MDMA is fine for everyone") going on among XTC fans simply because the idea that MDMA can cause long-term damage is an unpopular opinion.

@ZeroLuck

No worries man, I didn't start this thread to judge others drug habits or grammar/vocabulary! It's solely to help us all discuss possible treatments (or maybe supplements) that may help recovery. The problem is of course somewhat difficult because we all have different bodies and drug habits and there are too many variables to assume everyone will respond well to the same treatment. Or at the same pace, etc. I mean even scholars and doctors (practicing school medicine) are for the most part clueless.

@Dany657
Keeping a healthy diet will be easy, I actually like that it is high in fats and protein, because those foods have high caloric density. I much prefer that, because high fat means less overall food I have to eat doing OMAD. When I was into lifting I also started eating "functionally" (not for taste/pleasure but macros) and have a good understanding of nutrition, so that transition to intermittent keto will be smooth

Good you mention BPC-157, I have come across this and a few other peptides (i.e. semax, cerebrolysin, nsi-189) several times now and it really seems to be great from all the anecdotes. Would you mind sharing more of your experience and the symptoms with BPC-157 (also via PM if you prefer)? I thought about it as somewhat of a last resort, because of the risks. How long have you been taking it in which dosage? Do you think the effects are notable and worth it?

I am also interested in knowing how to get my neurotransmitters back in balance while recovering, so feel free to share. I really appreciate it!
Regarding the amino acids, do you think BCAA powder (branched-chained amino acids) will do it?

Somewhat related: You may also want to try taking 5-10g Creatine Monohydrate daily, it has been proven to increase muscle and brain cell function (ATP) = overall cognition and brain processes. It's really cheap and I have started taking it this week and it helps well with brain fog and fatigue. This effectivity is also backed by a ton of research.

I also agree with you in regards to Modafinil and Methylphenidate! This has actually just become really clear to me this week when I realized that all stimulants are only short-term fixes.