• H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist | cdin | Lil'LinaptkSix

The Kick begins in earnest tomorrow....but have questions and a shi*t ton of anxiety!

How long were you on methadone? I had the problem too, but after a week or two of adjusting, it went away.

I dislike subs because of the precipitated withdrawal issue. That and I still have bad cravings on them, not on methadone. I've never tapered off either, so idk the difference there..but I've heard just as many horror stories from subs as methadone.

Either way, good luck to you this time!
 
Rio,

Thanks so much for sharing your experience. I'm going through similar stuff.

My husband isn't quite where I am recovery-wise. It's one thing to resist dope by not making that phone call. But, when someone is shooting dope in the same house? Well I'm not that good yet. So yeah, same. I feel like I'm going crazy sometimes.

I've done well this past month. I used twice. Like literally 2 times total. So, I'm getting there - slow and steady.

Lovemissile, Hugs!! Rio, I don't know if you read this entire thread - but she has severe anxiety during the 24hr waiting period. Severe anxiety period. She lost her boyfriend within the past couple years. LM- forgive me for not remembering - did you lose him to an OD?

Rio, I have severe anxiety and panic disorder. Since I was a kid. And when that anxiety takes over - it's so overwhelming to the point of paralyzing.

Dope is her security blanket right now. What we need to do is figure out a plan to help control the anxiety so that she can start the induction.

I was prescribed Neurontin (gabapentin) - it helps to keep my anxiety at a more manageable level. I know I've asked already LM - can you get your hands on some Neurontin? Lyrica? Valium? Klonopin?

From what you shared LM, your anxiety is the main problem She's "getting ready" right now Rio. We both, well all, know how difficult that initial step of stopping is.

Rio, do you have any ideas to help the anxiety? And any other information you think could be helpful to LM. She needs our support. And Rio- well done mate. Good job getting back. ❤️
 
Rio - you've tapered off subs without w/d?

Would you mind sharing how you did your taper?
 
In terms of anxiety, I'd totally agree with gabapentin. Most people don't know how to take it properly though - lovemissile, have you ever taken gabapentin by taking a pill each 20 minutes with something fatty until you feel something? For example, a gabapentin 300mg every 20-30 minutes with some whole milk? I've found that used ineffectively gabapentin is little better than placebo, when I figured out how to take them right I was amazed at how much of withdrawal they eliminated and actually got a really crazy buzz off them, unlike anything else i've ever tried. It was like the confidence of benzos with the social stimulation of a low dose stimulant with this weird slightly psychedelic overlay to it and I actually really enjoyed it. Have you ever achieved this state with them?

And in terms of my sub taper - yeah i've tapered down to 0 with practically no withdrawal. I went from 8 to 6 to 4 to 2 with very little issues, then went from 2mg to 1.2mg and felt the first withdrawal, so I took plenty of gabapentin in the method discussed above and supplemented with diazapam when necessary, then just cut down to 0.8mg, 0.4 then finally 0.2 and then just stopped. To clarify, I only used the gabapentin/diazapam for a day or two after each reduction, until I had adjusted to the new dose, and then for like 2 days after jumping off completely. The only withdrawal I had was slight discomfort before the gabapentin or valium kicked in, and other than that it was totally painless.
 
How long were you on methadone? I had the problem too, but after a week or two of adjusting, it went away.

I dislike subs because of the precipitated withdrawal issue. That and I still have bad cravings on them, not on methadone. I've never tapered off either, so idk the difference there..but I've heard just as many horror stories from subs as methadone.

Either way, good luck to you this time!

I only ever used methadone when I was still in active addiction when I ran out of heroin, so in fairness I guess I didn't give it a real try. I just feel it's mostly unnessecary for me now - like I said, when I'm on subs I don't get those super intense heroin-specific cravings, just general longings to be fucked up on hard drugs, and I'm sure that craving will plague me no matter what pharmaceutical I replace my street drugs with.
 
I only ever used methadone when I was still in active addiction when I ran out of heroin, so in fairness I guess I didn't give it a real try. I just feel it's mostly unnessecary for me now - like I said, when I'm on subs I don't get those super intense heroin-specific cravings, just general longings to be fucked up on hard drugs, and I'm sure that craving will plague me no matter what pharmaceutical I replace my street drugs with.

Maybe.

I thought nothing would get rid of my cravings, but methadone does. Well, I don't know if it completely does, but knowing that i will feel JACK SHIT if I score stops me. Subs and methadone both make me feel normal, def not high, but methadone just blocks better which has what's worked for me. Obviously, this isn't a long term solution (unless I stay on methadone for my whole life, which I do not want to), but it has eliminated the relapses that might have cost me my job, relationship, and/or freedom.
 
Oh my goodness!!!!! You guys are all so freakin AWESOME!!!

Rio-At first glance, yes, I actually thought you might be coming down hard on me. But I know that you were just trying to give me a push in the right direction. Thank you for all the great advice. BTW-I'm a "she", not a "he". I call everyone "dude", so its cool. And you are so very right when you said that "I lie to myself everyday'. I do. Its part of that duality in my brain. I continue to use, yes, because of anxiety and also because "I am quitting, TOMORROW!". And of course, tomorrow never comes....well, shit it does, but you know what I mean:). Insanely, right now, I am very calm. I have no drugs for wake-up. Which means I will start feeling like shit before my alarm goes off at 4:30a.m. Oddly, I am ok with this. Its 7:30pm and in about an hour I will finish what's left of my bunk dope and then take a Klonopin. I'm hoping once the Pin kicks in I can get some sleep and possibly wake up relaxed instead of dreading my first day off heroin. The goal is to wait as long as I can (whilst at my job, no less) and then pop that Sub. I am ready for this now, guys! I am so over all the bullshit that goes along with an addiction. So, I will definitely keep posting.

10-YOU ARE THE SISTER I WISH I HAD BUT NEVER DID!!!! You made my heart swell! Just like the Grinch in the Grinch who Stole Christmas! Which is probably airing on tv right after Halloween is over. Thank you so much for the kind words and the compassion and for having my back....in case Rio and myself ever go toe-to-toe!! Hahaha. You are someone I wish lived in my hood, who I could ask over for a cuppa joe or something. I have no girlfriends. I really don't have friends. My guy was my everything and yes, he died of a heroin-related overdose on February 7, 2016. We had 20 years together, so I guess I should feel blessed. But damn if it doesn't hurt. Anyhoo! Who's the 'amazing writer'?? Were you talkin to me?!

P.S. I have no Gabapentin. I do have 13 5.7/1.4 Zubsolv pills, and exactly 4 1mg Klonopin. I can probably get more K's. I AM DOING THIS. I AM DOING THIS. I AM DOING THIS.
 
Not to steal your post, lovemissle..

But Rio. I meant to answer this in my thread, but I got carried away with my own personal drama.

I do attribute the success I'm having to methadone. It works so much better for me than suboxone. It gets rid of the cravings and, the one or two times I've attempted to use on it, it's been absolutely pointless. And not like a block from suboxone which just takes more drugs than usual to get high...like using and using and using and not so much as a yawn. And then you get into OD territory there, so not a good idea either. When I am tempted to get heroin, I remember it is literally a complete waste of money. I would have to stop taking methadone for days in order to feel full fledged opiates once again, and I don't feel like going through that misery just for that.

Getting off methadone will be hard, and I know that. But it's nice to be out of the insanity for awhile.

The reason I'm saying this is...it might be a good option for you. I just know that I finally took the plunge with it after I had failed suboxone so many times and I knew my life was very close to falling to pieces if I didn't do SOMETHING. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing time and time again and expecting a different result...

I had a similar experience with methadone. Pretty sure the thought of using won't even excite you. By the end of my time on it I could watch someone shoot up and feel nothing.

Getting off isn't easy but it's not impossible. I tapered to 50mg then got on sub 4 days later. Which is a long story in itself but the outcome is I'm feeling fine on 8mg of Suboxone and I'll eventually start tapering.
 
Lovemissile-

YOU are an amazing writer. I'm all about books, great vocabulary, and so on. I love reading your posts. You are gifted.

I feel the same way re being the sister I never had. I wish I could have a cup of coffee w you, shoot the shit- and talk about everything and nothing- and support you through the 12-24 hour waiting period to get you on Zubs. Isn't amazing what can be accomplished with a little understanding and support?

You can do this LM. And you're going to. I'm sure of it. :). Glad you're feeling calm. If there's any way you can be put on gabapentin daily, it will keep your anxiety at a level you're able to handle it better. It's a game-changer.

Rio gave excellent information. Stacking gabapentin will do exactly what he said. Rio- You also have a way with words. You described how I feel on Lyrica to a T. And how gabapentin feels when you have no tolerance. Awesome description.

I will comment more later - my husband keeps interrupting me and I can't concentrate on what I'm typing! (*#!!&*0!!!!) So fucking annoying lol.

Hope everyone is doing well today. :)
 
Ps- I love the Grinch! Do you remember Berger Meister Meister Berger? Whatever Christmas special he's in I love that too!
 
No matter what opiate replacement I take, I still have cravings. I'm the problem.

I took methadone in both a clinical and medical setting - meaning I took the liquid at the clinic and 10mg tables prescribed by a Dr.

With the clinic, I took 120mgs, at once in the morning. I could feel it for about 2hrs i.e. mood lift, became ambitious (energy), etc. Then normal for a few hours, then at 4pm it wore off completely.

Being able to feel dope has to be due to the fast metabolizing. It seems that you're not supposed to be able. I was told that over and over. But, I could feel it.

With subs, if I wait 9-11hrs after I take it, I feel dope. There have been a couple times, within 2hrs I could feel it! I wonder why. It doesn't make sense, but it's true.

At any rate- It's me that's the problem. I need meetings. And staying busy doing things not related to drug use.
 
HEAVENS TO MURGATROYD, LADY!!! You just really summed it all up in one simple statement....." I am the problem". Right?! Years ago I was briefly on methadone. I think it was about 2 or 3 years into my drug use that I came to the shocking conclusion that I was not in control of said drug use. And when I let that fact sink in for a moment, it really fucked me up. I guess I was/am a high functioning addict. I worked, went to college, blah blah blah....not really thinking I had a PROBLEM. Until I started stealing from my job at the time. My lovely boyfriend (RIP, baby) was not as ambitious when it came down to getting the dope. I hate to say it, but I definitely wore the pants in that relationship. He could kick the covers for a couple days if he didn't have any heroin. Me? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Hell no. I was going to do whatever it took, consequences be damned! And that shit caught up to me also, in a BIG BIG way, but its late and I will have to save that sordid tale for another time. Where was I going with all of this??? Oh, yeah-methadone. I couldn't stand to be on it. Not only that, but I was greedy and kept shooting heroin too. I know I should have been put on a blocking dose. But I just never felt 'right' on the stuff. And I have no regrets about staying away from it. I believe it is a useful tool for some folks, just not this girl. Maybe my mindset is wrong, but I saw it as jumping from the frying pan into the fire. And having kicked while in jail(something else we share;)), I know it can be done without the aid of any maintenance drug.

Anyway, I have not eaten dinner yet and I feel like I am talking in circles now! What I am trying to say, and failing miserably is this: 10, you are 100% right about "being the problem". Whether I am on Sub or methadone or pints of Talenti Cookie Caramel Crunch ice cream, bottom line is....my brain is broken. Which came first? The broken brain, then the drugs? Or did the drugs break me a little more??? Hmmm. Shit, I am TURD!! That is some southern speak for TIRED!! Jesus, get me off this computer! Good Night All!

One last thing 10-My mom and stepdad lived in PA. I remember going to King of Prussia Mall. And I think they lived in Chester? Or Chesterbrook? Valley Forge National Park was in their back yard. That was GORGEOUS
 
I'm near KOP mall and Valley Forge. That's crazy! That Mall is so huge. It has it's own street names lol.

Yes, I'm the problem. I have to do more than just take replacement meds or count on them to cure me. I have to participate on sobriety.

Losing your man was a huge blow LM. Anyone could understand self-medicating for awhile. But, you're outgrowing using. Yup. When you start to feel like "This is a bunch of horse shit" , it's starting. Everything starts with a thought first.

When you feel up to it- share your story. I know you have an interesting one. :). Get some rest. I'm sure your exhausted. I'm not a professional, but I love to cook. It's alot of work! It's a stressful job. I worked at a few restaurants, and the chef was always screaming lol.

I hope you have a peaceful sleep LM. Talk soon. :) <3
 
Lovemissile,

I just wanted to say hello and let you know that you're in my thoughts.

I'm having a meh weekend. For some reason, when the weekend comes, It's a "trigger"? I'm not sure if that's how to articulate what I'm feeling.

Sort of like it's the weekend!! Let's live it up. Yeah. Cravings get to me more on Friday-Saturday night. On Sunday, cravings feel less pronounced. Still there, but not as bad.

I honestly think distraction would help. I'm going to make a point of going to the craft store and getting something to make, and the supplies to make candles. I'm a candle freak lol. I can't ever have too many.

Hope you're well. ??️?️??Bo
 
Lovemissile,

I just wanted to say hello and let you know that you're in my thoughts.

I'm having a meh weekend. For some reason, when the weekend comes, It's a "trigger"? I'm not sure if that's how to articulate what I'm feeling.

Sort of like it's the weekend!! Let's live it up. Yeah. Cravings get to me more on Friday-Saturday night. On Sunday, cravings feel less pronounced. Still there, but not as bad.

I honestly think distraction would help. I'm going to make a point of going to the craft store and getting something to make, and the supplies to make candles. I'm a candle freak lol. I can't ever have too many.

Hope you're well. ����️��️����Bo

Yeah, I'm exactly the same. I find planning sober activities for the weekend helps, as otherwise I can find myself at a loose end and then that part of my brain will pipe up "reminding" me of what used to occupy all my time.

lovemissile, what's going on? Have you planned a new induction date? Have you done it yet?
 
Just stopping by to say hello, and that you're in my thoughts LM.

Hope your week isn't too crazy. Be kind to yourself - anything else is counterproductive. Food for thought. :) <3
 
You've been quiet lady. I miss seeing you here.

Yesterday and today is really sucking dick. Our card was mistakenly billed 2 times and it wiped out our account.

After hours on the phone with the bank, flipping out on the place that repeat billed us (a couple thousand!!!) and having them fax my husband's military bank, we were told our money could be back at some point last night but it would automatically.go back in the morning. It's 8:01am, we're still waiting.

I didn't eat yesterday at all. I had some coffee yesterday and some diet Rasberry iced tea. So yeah, it's been grim.

It's kind of been one of those weeks all around. My stress level is on the high side. I'm trying my best to stay calm.

Hope you're having a better week
then I am. You've been missed. :)
 
Update:. Money finally back in at 11:00am. But, it still fucked up our finances for the month.

My husband asked "Do you want to get something?" I said no. Of course I want to!! But, I took my subs. Yes, it's good. But it takes time to FEEL good about making the right decision. I have to be careful with money. And I'm not feeling happy about my decision yet.

My husband is still trying to push it. My nerves are shot at this point. I'm trying to find this NA pamphlet I got at a meeting this summer with some phone numbers on it. I want to call one of the women to come get me. I need to get out of here for a while and get my bearings.

Sorry to lay this stuff on you LM. It helps for some reason. Im not speaking to my 2 best friends, that Ive known my entire life. I stopped talking to them about a year ago.

I realized that they're not really good friends. It's me that's been the good friend. It's a long ass story that I'll tell you another time.

Hope you check in. No matter what. <3
 
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