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Thread: The Kick begins in earnest tomorrow....but have questions and a shi*t ton of anxiety!

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    The Kick begins in earnest tomorrow....but have questions and a shi*t ton of anxiety! 
    #1
    Hello Everyone! Due to Hurricane Florence, I now have 5 consecutive days off from my job. So, I will not have this opportunity again to try and get through the brunt of my withdrawal symptoms before being needed back at work. I am a longtime user of heroin. 15 years long. Started IV'ing from the start and just this past year put down the needles and continued snorting. Letting go of the rig was a
    huge accomplishment! Now I think/hope I am ready for the next step. I have in my possession, 13 5.7/1.4 Zubsolv tabs. I've been doing anywhere from a gram to half-gram a day, of pretty decent
    dope. These last couple of days I tapered my usage to just under half gram per day. I am already mentally freaking out. Not even sick yet and I am preparing for the worst. I would like to get a clonidine patch or script, but would need to go to my local ER to do so. What are the chances that anyone there would actually prescribe some comfort meds? If I am honest about wanting the best
    possible outcome for this kick, do you think they might help me (while judging me nonetheless)? I am all in this time. No going back. I lost my partner of 20 years to an overdose in 2016 and I am
    now ready to mourn the loss without drugs. Basically, just ready to live life free. Also, I metabolize heroin quickly. How long should I wait before induction? And should I take a whole tablet? I read
    a bit about the Bernese Method and have questions about that, but I think I will post those once my kick gets underway. I've become a pussy as far as withdrawal symptoms....I know I should wait as
    long as possible but I'm also scared I will cave. But I can't! Because a monster storm is heading this way and I will be house-bound! And I want OFF THIS SHIT!! I am a mess right now, sorry. So,
    if anyone could maybe guide me with dosing and for how many days, that would be great. I don't want to stay on the bupe for any longer than is necessary. Thank you so much.
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    #2
    Bluelighter ladyhlove's Avatar
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    Hey there...just wanna start by saying GOOD FOR YOU. 15 years is one hell of a long time to use dope. i couldn't imagine having it be a part of my life for such a long time and then quitting...it'd be like losing an old friend.

    I know lots about the Bernese method, so please ask away. If you're considering the Bernese method, I assume you're going to have some dope with you during the storm?
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    #3
    Oh my gosh! Thank you for taking time to post. I was actually hoping I might hear from you-as I have been following your trevails
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    #4
    OMG! I must really be a wreck right now....did not mean to send that partial post!! Anyway, I am really glad you posted Lady. I have been following your situation and know that you
    have experience ala Bernese. Yeah, 15 years is a long time to dedicate oneself to a life of opiates. But you know that when you are living it, day-to-day...well, time just flies by. Next thing you know,
    15 years has passed. Of course I never set out to continue using for so long. Fear set in. I remember one of the few times I did manage to quit-it was within the first 2 years of my using. And kicking
    was a piece of cake back then. Now its a whole other animal. And yes, it IS like losing a friend. Heroin has been my savior and my worst nightmare. But I am too old for this shit now. And I lost my mate, and so once that happened....well, it just can't get any more painful than that. I will try to get my head together and think of some questions about Bernese for ya. Take care and congrats
    on making methadone work. I went that route as well over the years, but it was a short-lived trial. Was only on it for 3 months, and I just kept using heroin along with my dose. So I figured something
    had to go and of course....it wasn't the dope! Have a good night and thanks again!
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    #5
    ok, so I have just about used up the last of my heroin supply. I will try to stretch it out so that I can have a little bit before I go to sleep tonight, tomorrow a.m. I will let the withdrawals start to kick in. Then the goal is to take the damn Zubsolv. I know I should wait as long as humanly possible to take it, so that I avoid precipitated withdrawals. But how much to take for that first dose? Should I split a tab? Take the whole thing?
    And then, if I wanted to try the Bernese method, how soon after taking the Zub could I take heroin? I'm sure in all the years of using and trying different methods to get clean, I have used bupe and dope together. But my memory is shot right now. I want to believe that the dope on top of bupe really did take away some of the nasty side effects. Right now I'm just giving myself pep talks, because I have been down this road too many times...and damn it gets so old. any advice is much appreciated.
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    #6
    Hey lovemissile. How are you doing w the hurricane? Are you in North Carolina? Holy shit it's bad there. Whe88
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    #7
    ^^sorry about that. I hit post by accident. One of my neighbors came over. I will finish reply later. Hang in there. You're going to be fine. I just re-inducted myself back on to Subutex. I know it's stressful, but you can and will do it.
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    #8
    Hey! Thanks for responding. I'm not in NC, but VA. And our governor ordered alot of mandatory evacuations for people in low-lying flood zones, which is pretty much everywhere in
    my city and neighborhood. But I have to say that this storm was a bit of a snoozefest. We didn't get any of the rain or flooding that was anticipated. I lost 3 days of work for nothing
    basically. But I get why the caution. Someones head would roll had there been any fatalities here. My mom, on the other hand, lives in coastal NC and she has been holed up in a
    hotel about 100 miles west of her town for the past 4 days. Not sure how/when she will get back. About the Suboxone.....this is the part that friggin gets me EVERYTIME!!! My intention is
    always to start induction that morning after my last dose of heroin. But the anxiety that hits me is overwhelming. And next thing you know, I'm either on my bike or calling Uber to go score.
    And then of course comes tremendous guilt and fucking hating my life. Spending more damn money that I SWORE I would not spend. So that is where I am at...again. Square one, with only
    one more day off until I go back to a very physically demanding job. Fuck me. I really really want to take the damn Zubsolv tomorrow a.m. I know a lot/most of this is psychological. But jesus,
    when that anxiety hits, I will kayak through floods to go get well. Ya' know?!
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    #9
    please send any tips/advice for getting that first tab of bupe into my system. Somehow I have to talk myself down off the cliff.
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    #10
    Hi. Back. Sorry about the Delay. I'm glad to hear you're not in NC, and glad to hear your mom is safe! I'm from PA, about 10-15 mins from Center City Philadelphia.

    I 100% understand that anxiety prior to starting subs. And I've delayed it many times too. And took forever to finally induct.

    Don't be scared. There are things you can do to make it easier. Can you get your hands on Neurontin (gabapentin) or Lyrica? If you can, that will make that 24hr waiting period a breeze.

    Or some kind of benzo - like Valium. Or whatever you can. That could help you be a little calmer. As I said, I completely understand the pre-sub anxiety.

    And, as you mentioned, using the Bernese method. But, as you know, even if you go that route, you still have to wait.

    I dread induction due to the waiting. But my average wait is 12hrs. I feel pretty bad at 12hrs. But to be safe , 24 hrs- is recommended as you know.

    My inductions are shitty because I'm still using a couple times a month. So I'm messing up/confusing my system. So I feel shitty for 3-5 days. Not as shitty as I would without subs. But not good.

    That's where the Bernese method is very helpful. But, that requires some self-control. You have to get the Zub/Sub in you first.

    I always start off at a low mg when inducting. 1-2 mgs. Wait 1 hr. If I'm ok , I take 1-2 mg more. Wait 1 hr and so on.

    If you have the self-control to have dope there, and induct yourself then you'll do great.

    I had a difficult induction this past one. And couldn't get my hands on dope. Just because my middle man was being a pain in the ass. Lovemissile (that username lmao), you can do this. If I can, you can.
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    #11
    I forgo to add, I'm close friends w anxiety and panic attacks. I know the feeling of being willing to go to all ends of the Earth to avoid it. What exactly is causing you to have anxiety? Are you worried about pre-cipitated w/d?
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    #12
    Moderator
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    Start with a small dose of sub. 1mg is a good start. Then titrate up every hour after that as long as your feeling ok. As in not in pw
    Addicted? Want to stop? We can help! Come to the sober living forum!
    http://www.bluelight.org/vb/forums/269-Sober-Living
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    #13
    Thank you for repsonding! It makes me feel less ALONE. I let myself down yesterday and bought enough dope to get through my work day today and then possibly try the Zub tomorrow a.m. Its always TOMORROW! I am so sick of living like this...on hold. I have created a self-imposed exile and its getting really fucking lonely. Nobody knows about this relapse. My folks live out of state, which is a blessing and a curse. I think if I had some family around I might not feel so isolated. Anyway, thank you for the posts. It helps more than you know. Yes, the anxiety is crushing when I'm considering induction. I have lived with both anxiety and depression since i was 6 or 7 years old. Years ago i was on medication for both and that therapy went really well. But I dropped the meds once I started my dope habit with full enthusiasm. I may revisit the meds again once I stabilize. I dunno. Lots of question marks right now. I would love to get some gabapentin or clonidine, but the only way would be to go to a doc-in-a-box, or my local ER. Do you think if i was honest with the ER, they would actually prescribe something? Well, got to get ready for work. Thanks again. OH, my lovemissile moniker...i nicked the name from my deceased boyfriends punk rock band!
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    #14
    Bluelighter ladyhlove's Avatar
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    I'm so sorry I didn't respond sooner, lovemissle!! I'm mia on the weekends due to the fact that if I get on a comp, someone WILL make me work at my job, lol.

    When doing Bernese, it honestly doesnt matter when you start the subs bc you're going to pull yourself out of post acute with if you develop it anyways, but for the sake of harm reduction, I'd wait at lease 8-10 hours...at LEAST. I usually wait 12 hours, sometimes more sometimes less and then take a sub...a small amount...1mg, mayyybe 2 tops. I usually follow this with a line of dope (I snort, do your dope however you want) and I don't get post acute wd because the dope keeps that at bay even though my body is slowly adjusting to the subs at the same time. I usually do another 1mg of sub, followed by a small amount of dope also at night. Don't use enough dope to get you high, just enough to make you feel normal. As the week goes on, keep upping your sub dose while lowering the amount of dope you're using. The key is to have your sub dose be at a "blocking dose" towards the end of the process, so the dope you're using isn't really doing anything towards the end anyways.

    My only warning about Bernese is to try and focus on the task at hand which is ELIMINATING DOPE. The Bernese method always failed in the end, for me, because I always could convince myself I needed *just another day* on the dope. Your brain does a good job at keeping you addicted...i swear it'll even create what feel like physical symptoms to keep you still using. A lof of times I'd find myself still using dope 3 weeks after trying to induct via Bernese and then I'd be super broke spending money on subs AND dope and I wouldn't even have a very good high going on.

    How did Florence affect your life??I hope everything is ok!
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    #15
    yeah, so I have been avoiding posting, which seems silly in retrospect. I mean, we are all here for the same reason, more or less, right? But I continuously let myself down and there is shame attached to that
    as well. Every FUCKING day I have the same conversation with self (this is where the insanity part must come into play): that today will be the day i finally take the bupe and put down the dope and sort my life out. And then the anxiety over actually quitting kicks in and before you know it, my fingers are somehow dialing my dealers # and I'm back where I started. This shit is so old. I am angry and depressed and want to die. But not really want to die. Just want to stop and cannot. And yet, I KNOW I CAN QUIT!!! I have been down this road before and I am capable. So I know it can be done. Plus, everyone that posts their success stories on BL, of which I read with utter amazement and respect, proves the case. Anyway, that is where I am at today. Again. I have made progress this past year, I put down the needle. So, I know that there are steps that have been taken to help in the long run. But I have turned into the biggest wuss as far as withdrawals. I remember those days like they were yesterday. I'm just venting here. Ladyhlove-thanks for posting. My area in VA didn't get a lick of Florence. Which is good, but I ended up losing 3 days of work because of a mandatory evacuation order. So, I am playing catch-up financially. And spending stupid money on drugs, of course. Hope everyone is enjoying their weekend.
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    #16
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    Try not to beat yourself up. I've been trying to get clean&sober for 30+ years. I have almost 4 months now.

    Peace&Love,
    jasper

    "OPIATE, n. An unlocked door in the prison of Identity. It leads into the jail yard."
    ― Ambrose Bierce, the Unabridged Devil's Dictionary
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