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dissociatives

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markosheehan

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Sep 17, 2016
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out of all the ketamine analogues which causes the least amount of bladder problems?

also out of all the PCP analogues which has the least effect of dopamine receptors/transporter(least stimulating+anxiogenic)?
 
I think bladder problems are more of a ketamine thing, MXE has not caused bladder issues yet has it? Certainly PCP/PCE/3-MeO-PCx haven't caused bladder issues. They do, however, cause fugue-type behavior sometimes...
 
users have reported bladder damage from heavy MXE use.
what about DCK,methoxyketamine compared to MXE bladder damage.?

which PCP derivative is the least stimulating and anxiogenic and most ketamine like.?
 
which PCP derivative is the least stimulating and anxiogenic and most ketamine like.?
Click to expand...

This is a smartass answer, but, ketamine?

I mean, obviously there will e considerable personal variability. Most arylcyclohexylamines will have stimulant properties, even ketamine is a stimulant of respiration/cardiac activity. It seems to me the 2'-keto ACHAs are more immobilizing than those with "plain" cyclohexane rings, but the truth is there are not a lot of human in-vivo test data of ketamine/PCP analogs.

Logically if ketamine and MXE both can cause bladder damage in overuse then so can deschloroketamine, methoxyketamine, etc. But I don't think there are reported cases of PCP or its analogs causing bladder issues.

Changing the phenyl ring of PCP to a thiophene (TCP) or a benzothiophene (BTCP) causes greatly increased dopamine agonism/DAT transport affinity at the cost of reduced NMDA agonism.

Maybe you should track down the guy who "invented" MXE. I have a feeling he would have comparative SAR of the effects as I suspect he would have done a "screening program" to test several analogs of ketamine until arriving at MXE.

Also, not explored is the 4'-keto analogs of PCP...
 
I found 3-OH-PCP to be quite sedating, rather than stimulant. Then again, I tend to use dissociatives in a dark room, with the curtains pulled together, and nothing but some heavy industrial or operatic doom metal playing, shoot up and hole, lying on a bed, so it doesnt tend to be a problem for me.
 
sekio said:
I think bladder problems are more of a ketamine thing, MXE has not caused bladder issues yet has it?
Click to expand...

Methoxetamine has been shown to exhibit bladder toxicity in animal studies, as well as human urothelial cell cultures.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5297751/

Also, there probably aren't any case studies (that I'm aware of) about its bladder toxicity in humans in the medical literature likely because it didn't remain a widespread drug of abuse for long, meaning that there aren't a lot of people whose symptoms could be attributed primarily to extended chronic MXE use with any reasonable certainty. It only appeared on the market in mid to late 2010, and was already banned in several European countries by mid-2012 (including the UK, where it was arguably more popular than anywhere else), leading to higher prices and lower purity (and thus greatly diminished popularity).
In 2014, an EU-wide ban had followed, and by late 2015 production had mostly stopped due to it being banned in China, with the labs switching production to other arylcyclohexylamines and diarylethylamines.
 
Bladder issues are probably dosage dependant so the least bladder-toxic arylcyclos are probably the PCP analogues with active dosages of 10mg or less.

In my personal experience DCK felt extremely harsh on the bladder, despite the reduced dosage compared to ketamine. I attribute this partly to the long duration, so I would hazard a guess that shorter duration ACHs are also less damaging, but this is purely anecdotal, I don't have any scientific research to back it up.
 
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