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Thread: End The War On Drugs

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    #76
    Ugh. I so badly wish I knew if my red state was ever going to go green in the near future. (Or that we had a president with some cajones) and would just legalize marijuana across the board. It's not like neither the governor nor 45's hands are truly tied on the matter. I'd love to invest in getting the licenses to grow/open shop. There is SO much money to be made, an I'd love doing it. However, that is such a HEFTY investment for something that may not even be able to be used in the next however many years, far too risky. I do find it comical though, you can literally BUY all the fixings for your dispensary (even a 2,000$ consultant for four hours! Lmao) but.....only CBD is legal and 98% of the population aren't approved for it.


    https://dispensarypermits.com/united...sary-in-texas/

    I see you milking that cash cow, gov. I see you.
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    #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hypnotist View Post
    So then decriminalising drug production would be an oxymoron? Not so, just means that production stops being a crime.
    thats called "legalization". legalizing doesnt necessarily mean regulating, but that nothing related to drugs - use, manufacture, buying/selling, etc - is illegal. "drug decriminalization" specifically refers to not punishing or lowering the punishments of users for using.

    wiki
    Drug decriminalization calls for reduced control and penalties compared to existing laws. Proponents of drug decriminalization generally support the use of fines or other punishments to replace prison terms, and often propose systems whereby illegal drug users who are caught would be fined, but would not receive a permanent criminal record as a result. A central feature of drug decriminalization is the concept of harm reduction.

    Drug decriminalization is in some ways an intermediate between prohibition and legalization, and has been criticized as being "the worst of both worlds", in that drug sales would still be illegal, thus perpetuating the problems associated with leaving production and distribution of drugs to the criminal underworld, while also failing to discourage illegal drug use by removing the criminal penalties that might otherwise cause some people to choose not to use drugs. However, there are many that argue that the decriminalization of possession of drugs would redirect focus of the law enforcement system of any country to put more effort into arresting dealers and big time criminals, instead of arresting minor criminals for mere possession, and thus be more effective.

    In 2001 Portugal began treating use and possession of small quantities of drugs as a public health issue. This means rather than incarcerating those in possession they are referred to a treatment program. The drugs are still illegal, the police just handles the situation differently. This also decreases the amount of money the government spends fighting a war on drugs and money spent keeping drug users incarcerated. ?As noted by the EMCDDA, across Europe in the last decades, there has been a movement toward ?an approach that distinguishes between the drug trafficker, who is viewed as a criminal, and the drug user, who is seen more as a sick person who is in need of treatment? (EMCDDA 2008, 22).6 A number of Latin American countries have similarly moved to reduce the penalties associated with drug use and personal possession? (Laqueur, 2015, p. 74. Portugal is the first country that has decriminalized the possession of small amounts of drugs, to positive results. Anyone caught with any type of drug in Portugal, if it is for personal consumption, will not be imprisoned.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Hypnotist View Post
    You are confusing user decriminalization with decriminalization
    lol if you're gonna start equivocating then there's no discussion to be had. no point wasting time with somebody acting in bad faith
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    #78
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    I think we're having a confusion in terms. Legalization means it is made not a crime, and people can buy, sell and produce it. It does not necessitate a special tax or anything. I agree the tax on tobacco is outrageous, but there are countless other legal things that are not taxed other than normal sales tax. Decriminalization means users will not be criminals anymore, but it is still not legal to sell it. In fact, marijuana has been decriminalized in almost every state by now, but you still get fined if you get caught with it, it just doesn't result in a criminal record anymore.

    At least, this is what legalization and decriminalization mean in the US. So, Hypnotist, I believe that you are in favor of what we are defining as "legalization" and not "decriminalization".
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    #79
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    Last try, from wikipedia (legalization entry)
    "Legalization should be contrasted with decriminalization, which removes criminal charges from an action. Legalization imparts more regulatory control."

    From Collins dictionare:
    decriminalize: verb
    When a criminal offence is decriminalized, the law changes so that it is no longer a criminal offence.

    As you see in my opinion your wiki entry is wrong. You are gonna go on thinking the same so am I, let's call it a day.
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    #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeister View Post
    I think we're having a confusion in terms. Legalization means it is made not a crime, and people can buy, sell and produce it. It does not necessitate a special tax or anything. I agree the tax on tobacco is outrageous, but there are countless other legal things that are not taxed other than normal sales tax. Decriminalization means users will not be criminals anymore, but it is still not legal to sell it. In fact, marijuana has been decriminalized in almost every state by now, but you still get fined if you get caught with it, it just doesn't result in a criminal record anymore.

    At least, this is what legalization and decriminalization mean in the US. So, Hypnotist, I believe that you are in favor of what we are defining as "legalization" and not "decriminalization".
    Ya in your words will be legalization but without permits and special taxation. We pharmacophilics don't have to pay for the roads more than others.
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    #81
    Quote Originally Posted by The Hypnotist View Post
    Ya in your words will be legalization but without permits and special taxation. We pharmacophilics don't have to pay for the roads more than others.

    He did not say no permits. There will ALWAYS be permits for businesses like that. Just like any bar/pub, really. In all honesty, that makes complete sense to me. Liability things and such. **If it's like Colorado all over, you would not need a permit to grow in your own home for personal use I don't believe.
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    #82
    I did a quick Google search out of curiosity, Colorado indeed has their own "special tax" for marijuana. 2.9% sales, and 15% state marijuana tax. I never thought any state would legalize cannabis and not slap their own specific tax on it. I agree with it, 1000000% actually.
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    #83
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    Yeah it works great for Colorado, for sure.

    Hypnotist, I'm fine with disagreeing on terminology if we are both advocating the same thing. Make it legal to buy, sell and produce and give it a free market. That's what I want for drugs. Whether we call that legalization, decriminalization, or something totally different, like deharmonitetrodization, it makes no difference to me.
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    #84
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    Ya let's meet in the country with less taxes!! we can go on the discussion there
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    #85
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    i dont want to have to play "whats actually on this blotter paper?", "what does this 'ecstasy' pill contain?", or "will this heroin/cocaine kill me when i do it?" anymore, so i'm all about quality regulations
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    #86
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    It's important to note that a big reason why it is working so well in Colorado is because we have been able to work with our local and state representatives very closely. The movement grew from the ground up. It's a people's movement controlled by the people. I had been working with the movement since 2006 to personally see it get passed in 2012. Communication didn't stop once it was legalized. That was just the start.

    Communication is what got us off the ground and kept us afloat. Each major issue was solved through talking, not necessarily through a bill.

    This allowed us to get exactly what we wanted. The larger the area, the more complicated it becomes. It's important to treat every area uniquely and to keep communication open between officials and the people.
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    #87
    Quote Originally Posted by w01fg4ng View Post
    It's important to note that a big reason why it is working so well in Colorado is because we have been able to work with our local and state representatives very closely. The movement grew from the ground up. It's a people's movement controlled by the people. I had been working with the movement since 2006 to personally see it get passed in 2012. Communication didn't stop once it was legalized. That was just the start.

    Communication is what got us off the ground and kept us afloat. Each major issue was solved through talking, not necessarily through a bill.

    This allowed us to get exactly what we wanted. The larger the area, the more complicated it becomes. It's important to treat every area uniquely and to keep communication open between officials and the people.
    that is the only viable way i see weed being legalized in all the states in today's world. now if only colorado could teach the rest of them how to do it.

    unless of course anyone from colorado can provide proof of why it isn't work out, seeing as i've never been there.

    @Shadowmeister: the post earlier about friendly fire was my way of bowing out of the discussion on the side of why not to legalize it.

    the irony of "You guys should probably take that stuff to PM" is lost on others cause they can't see us not quibbling like children in the school yard. i was just keeping him safe while being in my head; it's not a place you want to visit or live . thanks for keeping things on the level all the same.
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    #88
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    I think many people would rather complain on a message board rather than actually do anything to change their situation.

    It takes time, talking, walking and voting, to do it right.
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    #89
    well grease me up and call me greased up deaf guy. your as smart as you are funny.

    agreed. working it one step at a time instead of just talking about it or taking short cuts is the only way to achieve the proper solution and address the concerns of the current system that those here have to ensure they wont be repeated.

    tl/dr...

    hell yeah!
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