What's up Mycophile? I've been running into you a lot lately. I f*ing love this thread you created. I can relate so much. I have RBD (Rem-Sleep Behavior Disorder), and my previous psychiatrist didn't even know what that was. He was a really cool psychiatrist. I especially liked him cause he wasn't afraid to put God into the equation, though he usually only did so at my request because most of his other patients didn't want a religious psychiatric appointment, so he wasn't used to including God in psych talks. Moving on, my current psychiatrist DID know what RBD was, but she didn't know that I shouldn't be taking drugs whose main mode of action involves seratonin, because excessive seratonin makes my nightly RBD symptoms worse and (side note, RBD generally leads to a neuro-degenerative disease such as alzheimer's) excessive seratonin also quickens the onset of neuro-degenerative diseases for people with RBD. However, when I told her that I couldn't take seratonin-based drugs for this reason, she took my word for it and helped me find something else that worked. I quoted you, Mycophile, because your doctor contradicts what a lot of people are saying about doctors including what I say below, specifically about how most doctors prescribe meds, but they don't take them. Or if they do it's not to the extent that many BL users do. I also wanted to say to you that I brought up recently to my new psych that I think I may have ADD, because a friend let me try his adderall not too long ago when I was feeling very lethargic and needed energy for an important task, and the adderall gave me the effects that are usually only present in patients with ADD/ADHD. I wasn't all hyper. I was more calm and focused than ever. My brain seemed to slow down in a way. My doctor was surprisingly fine with me saying that I had taken adderall before without a prescription, and she told me that I needed to take a test if I felt I needed a controlled ADHD substance. We set up an appointment for the test, and she asked me in the meantime if I wanted to take strattera. I told her that I had taken it before, but I stopped taking it because it gave me hypertension. She said in that case I probably shouldn't take controlled ADHD meds, because they spike your blood pressure even more. Which is the complete opposite of what your doctor said, mycophile! I was honest with her and told her that I was taking kratom while I'd been taking strattera, which also spikes blood pressure, and I believe the combo of those drugs is what gave me hypertension. (Yes, Kratom spikes blood pressure even though its an opioid. It doesn't lower BP like normal opiates. Look it up)
As I was scrolling down this thread, I saw many posts that said some of the things that I was planning on saying. Because of that, I'm going to try to avoid being too redundant and for once I'm going to keep my post relatively short.
For starters, I 100% agree with the people that said that doctors prescribe meds, they don't take them. At least not to the extent that most of us do. As a long-term reader of BL, I kind of think that in a way, a lot of the people that are on BL that aren't doctors know more comprehensive information about most medications than their doctors do. Because a lot of us here have taken a lot of medications. It seems that a lot of us also have a lot of experience experimenting with drug combos, prescribed or not. It's scary when I hear a doctor say something that tells me that they don't know about a dangerous drug combo. For instance, my dad was recently prescribed high doses of valium and morphine (It might've been a different powerful opiate. It was stronger than oxy) at the same time, along with other drugs. WTF. I mean at the time he needed the morphine, but if I were a doctor I wouldn't have also prescribed valium. That's a dangerous combination. Luckily my dad didn't die while prescribed this combo, but he did change a lot. I blocked his phone number (we live far apart) because the med combo was turning him into someone that wasn't him. It's probably relevant to mention that my dad is a recovering coke head, but I think that the med combo had way more to do with his change of attitude than his past history of substance abuse did. He never really enjoyed sedatives. The combo brought back his anger management problems from two decades ago. He was unable to think logically or hold normal conversations without overreacting. He became depressed and isolated himself. He harmed himself in many non-physical ways, and this was only while he was prescribed the COMBO. Eventually they tapered him off of one of the meds (I think the valium) and he turned back to his normal self, other than being a little groggy and out of it when he had just taken his dose.
Another case of a doctor prescribing multiple meds that shouldn't be prescribed together actually happened at my last psych visit, the same visit where we talked about controlled ADHD meds and strattera. I've been prescribed klonopin for a while for RBD and anxiety and every couple months I switch between ambien and sonata for insomnia (both are z-drugs/non-benzos). My doctor also told me to take 15mg of melatonin at night and said that it was fine to take valerian root. I take 2000mg a night. At the end of our session she asked me if I had any more questions. I asked, "is there anything that you can prescribe me for restless leg syndrome"? I was surprised that she said yes, gabapentin. Long story short I told I'd tried it before and it helped my sleep, she initially prescribed me 30 300mg pills and later because of an insurance issue with trying to bump up my sonata dosage, she prescribed me an extra 30 400mg pills. I really appreciated it, and I felt lucky cause I love these kind of drugs, but at the same time I was thinking... "Is she not concerned about me having respiratory problems?? I'm prescribed a LOT of relatively powerful sedatives. Plus gabapentin, klonopin, and sonata all interact with each other to some degree." It was just another "wtf, doctor" moment.
Anyway, I also agree with the people that said that the medical industry is very money-driven. Something that no one has said yet is that a LOT of psychiatrists and probably other kinds of doctors too have firm relationships with certain drug companies, and they're incentivized by those companies to push the company's medications onto consumers. It's HORRIBLE. A while ago when I was looking for a new psychiatrist cause I had just moved, my mother-in-law told me to google any doctor before I see them. Her reason was because sometimes a google search will reveal that the doctor IS being incentivized by a pharma company, and also that by googling a doctor you can tell how long they've been practicing, and other practical information like that. I believe her though about doctors being tight with big pharma, not because I saw any connections between any doctors and pharma companies online, but because throughout my whole life doctors have often tried to prescribe me new, barely tested meds. I told my previous psychiatrist to his face that it made me feel like a guinea pig. Why not just give me older meds that have been proven to help with my conditions, rather than samples of meds that have literally existed for like, a month, and only been given one or two lab tests?? Maybe I'm being paranoid or jumping to conclusions, but it seems pretty suspicious to me. If I were a doctor I would be prescribing meds that I KNOW work. Meds that I can explain comprehensively to my patients because I've been prescribing them for years.
The final thing that I wanted to say is directed at the OP. I can't see the original post for some reason but I remember you said something like, your doctor said that adderall doesn't increase blood pressure, which you knew to be false. I find that a little suspicious too, because who doesn't know that ADHD meds typically raise your BP? I mean there are certainly people that don't know, but you get my point. It's not uncommon knowledge among non-doctors, so a doctor, especially a hippy one with tats and all that, you would expect him to know. I'm not trying to stereotype, just going off of what you said. Personally I think he did know. I theorize that maybe his point was that you don't have to be worried about your BP rising dramatically as long as you take your meds as prescribed. I don't know the full story, but I think it's a possibility.
Still, there is an epidemic of ignorance among doctors. Don't they go to school for this stuff for like, at least six years? I'm not so sure that it's ignorance though. If anyone else has had any similar suspicious stories about doctors saying things or prescribing things that don't make any sense, I'd love to hear them. Not that I want to believe that all doctors are intentionally providing us with misinformation. But I wonder, maybe they have to lie and give misinformation in their industry. Perhaps most psychs really are in cahoots with big pharma, and in order to have a successful career, the doctors have to push big pharma's meds onto patients. It wouldn't be the first case of an authority figure making decisions based on who's backing them financially (I'm talking about politics if that wasn't obvious). When I think about it, the pharma industry is a BIG one, and I imagine that there could be a lot of competition between doctors. Maybe they have to lie to survive financially. I'm just throwing out theories here. I am NOT trying to start a conspiracy. As I said, I'm just wondering if anyone has had any similar suspicious interactions with doctors other than the experiences mentioned so far.
Hey man,
I'm sorry to hear about the screw up with your dad being given Valium and Morphine, but I'm glad he's ok.
However, I am not 100% sure that that's necessarily ALWAYS a dangerous combination, IF the dosages are low enough, because basically the idea there is that it's not safe to combine an opiate (Morphine) with a benzo (Valium) right? But I take Klonopin and I have been prescribed both Oxycodone and Hydrocodne many times for surgeries and injuries from training Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and it's always been safe.
NOW...that is granted that the doctors wanted me taking ONLY the prescribed dosages of the Oxycodone and Hydrocodone, and I don't remember what mgs, but I am PRETTY sure they were 5mgs of Oxy/Hydro mixed with 325mgs of Tylenol as that is the standard, and I was told not to ever take more than two pills (so I THINK 10mgs max) of the opiates in a 4 hour period with my medication.
So my point is, Opiates/Opioids and Benzos CAN be safely combined IF the dosages are just right.
I am fairly sure, in fact, almost positive, that IF the dosages of Valium and Morphine that your dad were taking were low enough that it CAN be safe.
We need to remember that doctors DO know more than us, so if we get the idea that a certain drug combo isn't safe, we need to question WHERE we first got that information you know?? Did we just read it on some random site on the internet? Because if so, we need to question the source.
For example, there are legit sites online like Drug Interaction Checker is probably the best one and you can put those combos in there and see what shows up, and for sure I know that it will say there's an interaction between Morphine and Valium, BUT, they rate drug combos between safe risk, mild risk, moderate risk and severe risk, and I don't know where that interaction ranks, but also:
it's the dose that makes the poison you know? Your doctor knows your medical history and the mgs of each drug prescribed so he/she can make an assessment better than a computer can, so if you think your doctor is wrong you need to question the source you used to disagree with them, and get a second doctor's opinion rather than just go online you know??
Do you know what mgs of Morphine he was prescribed and what mg of Valium?
And if so, what exactly are low, average and high doses for both those drugs? Because I don't know.
If he was on low to average doses of both I really DO think it could potentially be safe.
In fact, there are MANY medications/drugs which we THINK should NEVER be combined, but in low enough dosages they CAN be combined safely, under the right circumstances.
Yeah, I don't know what my doctor was thinking when he said what he did cause he's REALLY cool.
I think maybe he did mean that the dosages he was prescribing wouldn't raise my BP that much, but I still think he's wrong cause he gave me WAY too high a dosage, I mean he prescribed me 20mgs of Adderall, and while some people like that much, it made me FREAK the fuck out and get panic, but then again, I am an anxious guys, and I don't know if the fact that I freaked out means my blood pressure and heart rate were high, but it seems like there would be a connection.
The other thing that bugged me, although I don't know if he's right or wrong, is that he said it would be totally safe to take the dosages of Adderall he prescribed me while doing heavy exercise and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu which he did, but I think he's wrong about that.
It doesn't seem safe to me to do heavy exercise on stimulants like that, but he told me that it really wouldn't be an issue.
The other reason that seems odd to me is because we had a discussion once about how I drink too much coffee and I was telling him that when I drink too much coffee while doing Martial Arts I get tired really quickly and have to stop and asked him why and he told me cause caffeine speeds up your heart rate and makes your body think you are working out to an extent even when at rest, so that when I drank all that coffee while doing martial arts the two of them together raised my heart rate too much and made me heart think I was working out harder than I was because of the coffee and made me tired and feel like I needed to stop: like as if I was wearing a led vest while working out and it made the workout harder.
And that makes total sense, EXCEPT if that's true with coffee then OF COURSE it would also be true with Adderall!!!
Then again, he never did say I might not get tired if I worked out on Adderall, only that he felt it would be safe.
I don't think it would give me a heart attack or stroke, but I don't think it's particularly safe either.
So it seems he understands the potential of stimulants to tax the heart from our discussion about caffeine, but didn't in this case.
Whatever, I mean, he IS a good doctor in my opinion, and very much willing to prescribe things that many other doctors wouldn't so he's cool in my book, but it's just concerning if I feel I might be given wrong information and I have to try to look elsewhere to find out what the truth is, but this is the only time he's ever told me something I think might not be true.
Honestly though man, I have to say again,
you really need to break up your paragraphs more!!
Even if you feel you need to write posts the length you write, I would go by the rule of making a new paragraph with spaces in between for every 4-6 sentences you write, AT LEAST every 6 sentences at the most. Please try to count them as you write or go back and edit them and make spaces after every 4-6 sentences so they are easier to read
Have you noticed how I write my posts? They aren't perfect, but you notice how after every few sentences I make a new line? That makes them easier to read.
Believe me, I have a problem with writing too much myself and as someone who works in the educational field and who's dad is a writer, he's told me the number one skill I need to work on with my writing is learning to be more concise and say the same things but in fewer words and he's write.
Like, in this particular post you didn't repeat yourself much, and I don't mean to be overly critical or a dick, but in one of your other posts in the other thread you repeated yourself a lot so that makes it longer.
Because this is also something I MYSELF REALLY NEED TO WORK ON, here's a few tips to making shorter and easier to write posts:
1) Make new paragraphs after every few sentences
2) Try not to repeat yourself, and go back and look over your post after you write and if you've said the same thing more than once then erase the times you repeated yourself
3) Consider if there are thing you are saying that you don't really NEED to say, like with the reader as your audience, question whether or not this is something they NEED to know about.
For example, you wrote a really good post in that other thread, but there was one part where you started talking about John Coltrane and how he wrote better music when he stopped taking Acid.
Now, that IS interesting, and if we were talking in person you could say it, but in terms of the conversation we were having on using drugs for anxiety, that wasn't TOTALLY necessary to say. Yes, it was relevant because he was reliant on a drug, but not for anxiety.
4) Also think if there are ways to say the same things in fewer words.
Sorry to get on your case about it man, it's just I've been told that I need to get better at being more concise and writing shorter essays/paragraphs, posts, etc many times before as well.
The thing is, I think guys like us, especially since we may not talk so much in person, we have a lot to say when we write, but it's important for us to remember that on a forum we are writing for the other person, not ourselves. So there may be things we may feel like saying, but they might not be the things the other person necessarily NEEDS to hear, so we should cut those out.
Otherwise, i really like reading your posts.
Peace
