Wow, what a great paper. I've now condensed the salient points here:
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...iate-opioid-addiction?p=14383433#post14383433
BTW, I've been collecting reports about daily low dosing iboga (wonder if you might have an interest in that). Anyway, here are some (sorry to throw all this stuff at you willy-nilly):
Ibogaine has also been given in regimens of small daily doses of 25 to 300 mgs/day and in small daily doses where the dose is increased on a daily basis until the desired interruption of drug dependence is accomplished. These low dose modalities have not been validated for efficacy, however, they can be traced back some decades to the work of Leo Zeff who in the case of a single patient provided ibogaine on an "as needed" basis via nasal administration to a cocaine dependent patient to substitute for his cocaine use. Lines of ibogaine were somewhat equivalent to lines of cocaine, and the patient ceased cocaine use after a week of this daily self-regulated ibogaine regimen. Additionally, reports from Canadian sources indicate multi-week low dose ibogaine therapy 20 mg/day following a therapeutic dose of ibogaine in the treatment of cocaine dependence. Further, reports throughout the ibogaine provider community indicate the use of multiple dosing of varying strength doses over varying time periods in the treatment of opioid dependence. As with all determinations in medicine, decisions must be made based on observations of the patient and knowledge of the disorder(s) and the medication(s) used.
From the "Manual for Ibogaine Therapy Screening, Safety, Monitoring & Aftercare" by Howard S. Lotsof & Boaz Wachtel:
http://ibogainedossier.com/manual.html
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There are 3 main options for ibogaine treatment (*these are all after a small test dose)
– single administration of 1 high dose ibogaine (with booster doses over the next few days/weeks if needed)
– single day/night of administration of multiple large doses spaced out by a few hours (with booster doses over the next few days/weeks as needed)
– small daily doses of 25-300 mg/day, where the dose is gradually increased each day until it is felt to have been effective for eliminating WDs/cravings (this one can be modified quite a bit)
http://www.dialogue.space/ibogaine-help-and-advice/
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Yes, small dosages are beneficial too, if one for example would like to deal just with the cravings. Not really sure though if Dr Mash`s theory of the effect of ibogaine metabolite (nor-ibogaine) staying long in the body really explains ibogaine`s long-term effects. It`s possible for example to take 200mg of Ibo HCl a week, or up to 50 mg a day...it`s very individual. Just don`t try the row powder from the iboga root - very harsh and very little effect.
http://archive.li/PMNzW
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My big bright idea, is to dose on opiates/opioids, and then take iboga root...but take a VERY small dose of iboga alkaloids, on a daily basis. and see if over time the iboga creates a potentiation of the opiate dose, allowing for reduction of the daily amount of opiates being used. I know one hypothesis is that the long lasting iboga metabolites cause part of the reduction/abolishment of opiate withdrawl...my idea hinges on this active metabolite hypothesis. The thought that a large, potentially dangerous, and mentally exhaustive standard iboga/ibogaine dose might be stretched out over a multitude of days and still create an active metabolite that has therapeutic value might appeal to people that are not ready for entry into a mindbending, physically taxing arena.
http://archive.li/PMNzW
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[Ibogaine] Ataxia and involuntary muscle movements induced by small daily doses interacting with other meds
I am posting this to the list in case anyone else may have had experience in this area and that hasn't posted it, and as an alert to others in case they see something like what I am about to describe develop. A client has been taking very small doses of ibogaine hcl (10-mg) once daily for approximately one month, to build up their nor-ibogaine levels so as to reduce tolerance to prescription pain medications. At the time the following symptoms emerged, the medication list included dilaudid (16mg q.i.d.), morphine sulfate (10mg as needed for breakthrough pain, about 3-4x daily), amphetamine (30-mg as needed to combat drowsiness of narcotics), Naprelan (Naprosyn extended release for mild arthritis), and Clonazepam (2-mg b.i.d.). A one-day trial of Trileptol (one dose) was initiated to possibly reduce the neuropathic pain being treated by the narcotics, but since this just made the client excessively sleepy it was not continued.
The client had not taken any amphetamine for approximately 2 weeks after initiating the ibogaine. About 4 days after initiating a small amount of amphetamine, the client developed involuntary muscle movements affecting the limbs and face. This included facial grimacing and eye rolling, as well as ataxia and loss of balance, including involuntary leg movements (bending at the knee and raising of the legs behind), arm movements, and sudden leg movements both forward and backwards. Since these movements were involuntary and obviously neurologically induced, the ibogaine was discontinued, as was the amphetamine and Naprelan. About 24 hours after discontinuing the ibogaine, the client went into a 36 hour sleep and upon awakening, all involuntary movements had discontinued and normal gait and balance were restored. The patient had previously been on all the above mediations, except Naprelan, at various times over the past year, with no involuntary motor movements having been noted prior to the initiation of ibogaine.
These symptoms took some time to emerge (3-4 weeks) on the low dose of ibogaine (10-mg), suggesting that it was the gradually increasing levels of the nor-ibogaine metabolite that were likely the causal factor in interacting with the other medications. I remain uncertain as to what the causal factors were, or which of the medications were the likely candidates interacting with the ibogaine/nor-ibogaine to elicit this reaction (though I suspect the amphetamine). Anyone using small dosages of ibogaine to reduce tolerance should be mindful that interactions with other medications could result in unexpected reactions.
http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/2007-July/031408.html
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The effects herein described are those of single administration high dose ibogaine regimens. Ibogaine has also been given in regimens of small daily doses of 25 mg to 300 mgs/day and in small daily doses where the dose is increased on a daily basis until the desired interruption of drug dependence is accomplished. These low dose modalities have not been validated for efficacy to the same extent as have the full therapeutic doses of ibogaine. However, these low dose regimens can be traced back some decades to the work of Leo Zeff who in the case of a single patient provided ibogaine on an "as needed" basis via nasal administration to a cocaine dependent patient to substitute for his cocaine use. Lines of ibogaine were somewhat equivalent to lines of cocaine and the patient ceased cocaine use after a week of this daily self-regulated ibogaine regimen. Additionally, reports from Canadian sources indicate multi-week low dose ibogaine therapy 20 mg/day following a therapeutic dose of ibogaine in the treatment of cocaine dependence. Further, reports throughout the ibogaine provider community indicate the use of multiple dosing of varying strength doses over varying time periods in the treatment of opioid dependence. As with all determinations in medicine, decisions must be made on observations of the patient and knowledge of the disorder(s) and the medication(s) used.
https://truthtalk13.wordpress.com/2012/08/15/ibogaine-therapy/
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I started on a daily regime dose of 50mg of hcl 17 days ago. In the first 3-4 days my nicotine habit went down to nearly zero (it was an "effort" to smoke,if that makes any sense). In retrospect, I could have kicked with the minimum of effort, I didn't, which is more about my individual psychology/pathology than the efficiency of ibogaine in interrupting nicotine dependency. It seems that like high doses, a "window of opportunity" opens up and its up to the individual as always if they want to kick their chemical dependency. (After the 4th day, the effect seemed to diminish or at least get over written by continuing to smoke.)
HOWEVER!
My nicotine habit is at least 50% down daily as of today (from 12.5g of rolling tobacco to below 6.5g), and this is the first time I've ever tried to kick nicotine, apart from a few times in the cells where there wasn't much choice.
http://www.mindvox.com/pipermail/ibogaine/2003-April/004292.html
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Dr. Alper was among the attendees who gave a presentation on the benefits of ibogaine to the Catalan Ministry of Health. The prof believes ibogaine's most likely path to prominence in the United States will be as a medication for meth addiction, for the simple reason that doctors and treatment providers have found that small daily doses seem to work better for meth addiction than the mind-blowing "flood doses" used on opiate addicts. Alper says no one thought to try non-hallucinogenic quantities of ibogaine until recently. Ibogaine treatment providers tend to have been former ibogaine users, and most assumed that the introspection brought on by tripping was key to overcoming their addictions.
"That's just how it evolved," he says, noting that the large doses do seem to work best for opiate detox.
"You're talking about a drug that has been used in less than 10,000 people in the world in terms of treatment. It's not surprising that's how it evolved. The visions have some psychological content that is salient and meaningful," Alper adds.
"On the other hand, there is no successful treatment for addiction that's not interpreted as a spiritual transformation by the people who use it. It's the G-word. It's God. We as physicians don't venture into that territory, but most people do."
Recently Wilkins has been experimenting with small daily doses of ibogaine for people with heart conditions or other health problems that make the "flood dose" unadvisable. The non-hallucinogenic regimen seems successful, she says, citing the case of Ron Price, the former bodybuilder, in particular. Price first came to Tijuana for ibogaine in 1996 and has been back six times, including his October stay.
"Every time I feel like I'm getting out of control, I come here," he says, his voice a gruff mumble.
"The very first time, I had a bit of visuals. It's supposed to take six months to get off methadone. With this it was one day. It was incredible. I haven't had a craving for methadone since then." That first time, Price took a "flood dose," enough to keep him tripping for hours on end. During this stay, Wilkins started him off with a tiny dose and gradually increased the amount he ingested each day. At the same time, she was weaning him off Oxycontin.
"We reduced your Oxy dose from 240 milligrams to 120 milligrams, in what, two weeks? That's great!" she says encouragingly.
"He was fantastic," she adds proudly.
"He developed a routine in his day. He was getting up and watering the garden, and not staying in bed and watching TV. He was walking the dog and wanting to go out—he was eager to go home, not scared."
Now, seated at Pangea's kitchen table, Price reflects on what has been most helpful during his time in Mexico. The ibogaine lessened his cravings for drugs and alcohol, he says, but eventually the effect will wear off.
"It's no magic thing," he says pensively.
"It's creating good habits and creating a support system. Ibogaine just strips you of the cells and walls you build up for yourself. It allows you to go AA meetings—which I'll do when I get home. It at least gives you a fighting chance to make your own decision."
http://archive.seattleweekly.com/home/877106-129/story.html
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Before dosing for long periods with iboga or using high doses for short periods, it is worth considering the potential damage it is doing to the Purkinje cells. The neurotoxicity appears to be species dependent and it really isn't known if it is a problem in primates . My gut instinct is in any case a low dose for longer periods of time is going to be safer than a high short term dose regime.
Ibogaine has also got some dangerous interactions with other drugs in particular opiates, which have killed people undergoing ibogaine therapy. FWIW there have been several deaths in treatment and the ibogaine clinics now screen out a lot of potential candidates. there appears to be some mechanism where it can cause heart arrhythmia and death. The pharmacology of ibogaine and the nor ibogaine metabolite is extremely dirty and complex.
IMHO the take home message is that ibogaine is fine if there is a purpose to using it ie quitting and therefore the risk benefit calculation works, because the risk associated with ibogaine is less than the risk of continued drug use, however taking ibogaine and continuing to use as well is just adding the risks of ibogaine but without removing the risk associated with continued drug use and therefore the risk benefit doesn't add up.
-vecktor
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It does have dangerous interactions with opiods - when used irresponsibly. What I wanted to relay, specifically, is that at LOW doses (again, 10 - 20mg) the opiate reset effect is fairly minimal - it seemed not so much to reset tolerance as to halt its development, which allowed me to use the chemicals I needed to in a stretch without incurring a massive habit, something that may be INCREDIBLY useful to people in chronic pain management situations. Now, I fully think that anyone taking it at all should probably have the arrhythmia screening - but then again, I also put up to your consideration the sale of lambarine, a 12mg ibogaine pep pill which was commonly sold in France at the turn of the century and seems to have no connotation of being dangerous or causing death in the people taking it. But vecktor overall is right - it is a risk calculation, in my particular situation it was
"OMG, I'm doing some shit totally beyond the pall of normal human behavior, the end result of which may be completely unmanageable addiction and probably death, or I could try this untested compound in a new way that I have a hunch may just do the trick (I've done a flood dose before to kick dope)"
All I wanted to do is honestly relay that I feel this compound has saved my life a second time, and that continued low dose usage seems to have compounding positive effects both on my mental state and immune system. I don't know that I want to take it forever, it kind of seems to even mitigate administration of itself along with other chemicals, and as time goes on my drive to take it certainly diminishes. I'm not saying I want to take this stuff forever, I'm saying if I NEED it I never want to be without it I hope this reply clarifies some of my previous points, vecktor thank you for the voiced concern, I should have been more clear that P had already been screened for arrhythmia, and am familiar with ibo in general, if that wasn't the case id be much more concerned for my well being.
-cdin
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Here are excerpts taken from a journal of a friend of mine who used Low Dose Ibogaine and Memantine to overcome an opiate addiction and the terrible withdraws that come with it. I hope it helps others that are dealing with the horror of addiction and the hell of opiate withdraw. There is hope!
A quick background of my friend. I'll refer to him as "Bob".
Bob started an addiction to pain pills (vicoden, oxy, Opana) about 2 years ago. It went from a few vicodens a day and progressed to about 120-180 mgs of oxycodone per day. Bob got to the point of taking his last dose around 7:00 at night, then waking up around 2:30 in the morning in withdraws...cold sweats, restless legs and just that in ability to fall asleep without another fix. His motivation to work or get anything productive done was gone. His relationships suffered greatly and his life revolved around finding a way to get his next fix.
He thought about Suboxone treatment, but didn't want to trade one addiction for another. As many people know, coming off Suboxone is almost as painful as withdrawing from other opiates...something the Suboxone Doctors don't like to tell you.
This is when he started studying Ibogaine and Memantine. While Ibogaine is illegal in the USA and Memantine is very hard to get a prescription for, as most doctors have little sympathy for opiate addicts, especially when they aren't going to be making much money prescribing Memantine. They push suboxone because this ensures the doctor will keep you coming back and paying your hard earned money to them.
Both Ibogaine and Memantine can be found online, without a prescription, from reliable sources if you search hard enough. The Ibogaine used in Bob's experiment was the HCL form. It comes in 3 forms, HCL, TA and Root Bark. The best and most potent of the 3 is the HCL.
Bob started by cutting down his dose of oxy from 180 mgs to around 100 mgs per day. This was not enough to get him high, but enough to keep him out of withdraws.
Day 1: After receiving his Ibogaine and Memantine, he begain first thing in the morning, before taking any oxy, by taking a 5 mg of Memantine and about 30mgs of Ibogaine HCL on an empty stomach. This was to test and see if he had any allergies or adverse reactions to them. A slight stimulant effect was noticed from the Ibogaine and no real effect was noticed from the Memantine. 3 hours after, Bob took his usual doses of oxy throughout the day. No real changes where noticed.
•VERY IMPORTANT...be sure to wait at least three hours after taking Ibogaine before taking ANY opiate. Everyone is different and it's possible that the potentiating effects of Ibogaine could cause an overdose of whatever opiate you take. Until you know how this effects you, start with taking half of your usual opiate dose 3 hours after the Ibogaine and assess the results. Please be careful!
Day 2: Bob upped the dose of Ibogaine to 50 mgs first thing in the morning on an empty stomach. He also took 5 mgs of Memantine in the morning and another 5 in the evening. The Oxy was taken as usual.
This went on for 5 more days. Bob was still waking up in withdraws in the middle of the night for this first week but did notice they weren't nearly as bad.
Week 2:
Bob upped his dose to 100 mgs of Ibogaine first thing in the morning on an empty stomach along with the 5 mgs of Memantine in the morning and another 5 mgs in the evening. The Ibogaine definatly produced a stimulant effect and a very mild "Trippy" feeling that lasted about 2 hours. It was not uncomfortable and allowed Bob to still function normally.
By the end of the 2nd week, Bob was sleeping through the night with absolutely NO withdraw feelings waking him up. The Oxy was also slightly more potent. He also noticed that rather than having to take a morning dose of oxy, he could wait until around 2-3:00 in the afternoon before even the slightest feeling of withdraw would begin. This was amazing considering just 2 weeks earlier, Bob couldn't go more than 8-10 hours without having terrible withdraws. He was now able to go 17-20 hours before even the slightest withdraws started.
Week 3:
This week, Bob decided to take a larger dose of Ibogaine for 2 days in a row. He had off work on Monday and Tuesday so decided to take advantage of it.
Bob woke up on Monday and took 250 mgs of Ibogaine HCL with his normal 5 mg Memantine. This caused a bit more of a Trippy feeling that lasted about 3-5 hours. It wasn't uncomfortable,
just not something you should drive on at this dose. Memantine at 5 mgs was taken as usual that evening.
Tuesday Bob followed the same protocol as Monday.
By Wednesday, Bobs brain felt completely reset. The cravings for opiates were gone. He took 30 mgs of oxy Wednesday but just for fun...not out of a feeling of needing it or physical dependency.
Thursday, Bob continued to take Ibogaine but at a much lower dose...just 20 mgs first thing in the morning. He also took NO OPIATES AT ALL on this day. This is the first time in almost 2 years Bob as taken no opiate of any kind. He noticed slight chills that night but was able to fall back asleep with no real problem. He stopped all opiates for another 3 days just to be sure the the physical dependency was gone. I'm pleased to say it was. He had a fairly sever headache on day 2 but that was quickly remedied with 2 Excedrine Migraine pills.
Bob continued to take 20-50 mgs of Ibogaine and 5-10 mgs of Memantine for the next 2 weeks. He took an average of 1, 30mg oxycodone pill every other day. Each time was at a dose of 30 mgs of oxy. This was again, just for fun and not out of a feeling of physical dependency. I know you maybe asking why not just quit completely. According to Bob, he likes the ability to relax with an occasional opiate as opposed to a beer like most of us. Whether that's a good idea or not, at least it doesn't control his life anymore and he isn't physically dependent on opiates to function...each to his/her own I guess.
The strange thing was that while Bob's physical dependency for opiates was almost completely gone, he still required 30 mgs of oxycodone to get any kind of a high. One would expect tolerance to go down, requiring less oxy to get a buzz or get high. This was not the case with Bob but everyone is different.
In conclusion, it seems that their may be a way to completely avoid the horror of opiate withdraw, even with a fairly high tolerance and addiction. Everyone says that there's no magic bullet to cure withdraws...but after reading and seeing Bobs experience first hand, I would have to disagree. In just 5 weeks Bob went from a 2 year, 180 mg plus per day oxycodone addiction, down to absolutely no physical dependence at all. He did this with NO withdraws and even continued to take the occasional oxy for fun when we wanted.
Warning and disclaimer:
It would be irresponsible of me to suggest that this method of over coming opiate withdraw is for everyone. It's not. Before considering it, do your own research about the side effects of both Ibogaine and Memantine. Ibogaine should not be used by anyone with a pre-existing liver or heart problem. It should also not be taken in the evening as it is a stimulant. A thorough search of drug interactions, specifically with Memantine should also be done. Neither Bob nor myself are doctors so this information should NOT taken as medical advice.
I'd be happy to answer any questions as best I can. But to all those who are trapped in the hell of opiate addiction, there is hope. It's not cheap but it's certainly cheaper than a daily opiate addiction and much cheaper than any Suboxone treatment clinic.
I truly hope this helps someone. I saw it change my friend Bob's life first hand. I also believe it can be accomplished in less time than what it took Bob. If your motivated, I think one could over come opiate addiction with little to no withdraws in as little as 3 weeks.
If your willing to put yourself through a full flood dose of Ibogaine, one could even avoid opiate withdraw and overcome their physical addiction in 24-36 hours. This would not be what i would recommend however as the Flood Dose Trip can be VERY intense and possibly very dangerous. Unless you are in perfect medical condition AND have a care giver/babysitter to stay with you for the entire trip, I would strongly advise against it. I believe the low dose treatment option over a period of 2-5 weeks is the best and safest method to take.
It also must be noted that while Ibogaine and Memantine will get you through the physical addiction and withdraws fairly painlessly, the mental addiction will still be there. That said, it's very important to follow up with a support group of some kind...NA and/or AA meetings are very helpful and increase your chances of success in the long run greatly!
Having been through my own addictions and seen many others ruin their lives because of addiction, I understand the hell and shame of a downward spiral substance abuse can lead to. So when I find a method that works as well as the Low Dose Ibogaine/Memantine method, I get excited because I know it can change lives and heal those that are willing to be helped. Being a slave to a substance is no way to live and an easy way to die.
To all those that are struggling with opiate addiction...I'm here to tell you there's hope and a way to minimize if not completely eliminate the horrible opiate withdraws. All you need to do is decide to take that leap of faith! ;-)
Having gone through my own addiction issues and experienced the absolute hell of opiate withdraw on 3 separate occasions, (all were legally prescribed meds that I decided to quit on my own due to my inability to function at work while on pain meds) I have a great deal of compassion for anyone dealing with opiate addiction/withdraw.
There is no reason for anyone to go through the sleepless nights, vomiting, diarrhea and skin crawling joint pain of opiate withdraws ever again to get clean. There really is an alternative and I can't believe that in this country no one is using Ibogaine to get opiate addicts clean. It works and, while it isn't cheap, it's a hell of a lot cheaper than an opiate addiction. Not to mention it completely resets your brain and gives you back your motivation, and love for life again.
-workin2005
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Oxycodone habit aborted with low dose ibogaine
Fred had the rewarding opportunity to sit in on Josh's's detox from 150-180mg/day Oxy (insufflation) habit, duration of 3 months.
Subjects pre-history w/opiates:
*1999-2002 heroin habit 1-3gm/day (gaining daily intake by approximate 1gm per year, graduating from sniffing>smoking>shooting in the first year).
*late 2002 Successful Ibogaine hcl treatment.
*early 2010 Subject had surgery, resulting in Hydrocodone & Oxycodone habit, tapered down from 100mgs/day to 40mgs/day before a flood of Ibogaine hcl aprox 100 days after surgery, successful results.
*Mid 2012 subject injured neck in a bike wreck, resulting in the above mentioned recent habit (150-180mg/day Oxy)
Subject was gradually administered low doses of Iboga 80% TA (total alkaloid extract) in combination with small doses of methadone just prior to anticipated withdrawal symptoms. (Every 8-12 hours)
Subject metabolizes opiates quite rapidly, thus the methadone was administered in micro doses 2-3x/day. In combo of building up to a flood of the Iboga on day 3, as the Iboga was increased, the methadone was reduced by 1/3 (18-12-6-0), the 4th day being 0 opiates. Total Iboga amount required 470mg, spread across 5 days, with a peak of 200mg on day 3 (60-100-200-60-50).
Extreme care and calculations based on providers experience and open/honest dialogue and agreement with subject assured no risk of overdose, or an overwhelming Iboga experience, as the subject had already been through two single dose Ibogaine complete rebirths, with 12+hours of visuals and no sleep for 36 hours - which was quite overwhelming for the subject. This detox was more like an abortion as opposed to the classic Iboga rebirth.
The concept of introducing methadone in combo with the Iboga TA was two-fold:
1. To stabilize the subject from the ping-pong effect of short acting Oxy (going through withdrawals every 2-3 hours) while gently introducing the Iboga into the mix without a major Iboga experience.
2. Limited resources, Iboga is a precious sacred medicine!
Subject was able to sleep about 4-5 hours/night the first 2 nights with the administration of low doses of Valium, melatonin, L-Trytophan and 5-HTP. Sleep became an obstacle after the flood on day 3, getting only 2 hours of sleep, leaving subject a bit tattered on day 4, but hung in like a champ and got 4 hours sleep the following night.
Surprise surprise! During day 4 the subject was quite restless and was offered a small amount of cannabis (less than 1/20th/gm). This helped subject relax for a few minutes but then began to potentiate the Iboga (or vice-versa) and led to a 3 hour tearful cathartic experience - including visuals - illustrating the subject's traumas, failures, triumphs, lies, truths and challenges in life. Although subject was not comfortable with the process, literally 8-10 years peeled away from subject's face. As the processing subsided, subject was left with a deep calm, in spite of the challenges to be faced moving forward.
FYI, The cannabis was a Sativa variety - Dutch Treat. Had an Indica strain been available, the cannabis would have had a more sedating effect. It is Fred's opinion that Sativa varieties of cannabis have what Fred refers to as the truth serum effect, in addition to visualization, and psychoactive properties.
Subject is quite clear on day 5, was able to go food shopping and a short walk in nature, and has a complete 180 degree view on life and purpose moving forward. Aftercare plans include ending addictive associations of people, places and things and reaching out to Iboga peers met during previous treatments. Subject is not a 12 stepper, but does not rule out that in case of cravings, and is quite knowledgeable with the right supplements and physical activities for a healthy rebound.
Fred always finds it a blessing and miracle to witness a seemingly hopeless addict transform through the sacred medicine of Iboga. Aside from the spiritual/psychological healing aspects of Iboga are the physiological aspects of how the Ibogaine molecule helps reset/repair the opiate receptors/peptides.
-3rdStoneFromTheSun