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PCP vs ketamine safety

PCP probably has a higher rate of acute psychosis, it's also probably safer on the organs due to the lower dose. Ketamine users in general probably dose to a higher ratio of NMDA blockage, since PCP has more stimulating effects making it somewhat limiting in that regard, so that's probably less healthy for ketamine users as well.

Disssociatives disrupt NMDAr-mediated LTP which is involved in learning, but even low dose EtOH disrupts LTP so I'm not sure how big of a concern this is. I think the biggest worry is negative changes in functional and structural connectivity, but this is probably only a problem with heavy abuse. Of course with ketamine there is a lot of concern for the organs as well.
 
Haven't yet read the papers, but did you perhaps, taken from context, mean to write that the D2 agonistic effects and NMDA antagonist effects of memantine are similar?

Because here you made it out to be a D2 ANTagonist, which AFAIK is not the case, stuff definitely wouldn't agree with me if it were a D2 antagonist, they make me ill.

Does anyone know which isoform of D2 memantine binds to, at all? because there are D2 presynaptic autoreceptors and there are post synaptic heteroreceptors. (I've often wondered what the effects of a highly selective D2 antagonist with an overwhelming preference for the D2 autoreceptor isoform over the heteroreceptors would bee like, out of interest, as these should cause INCREASE in DA release rather than blocking dopaminergic effects, in the case of an autoreceptor antagonist)

Perhaps if you do work with memantine more, it would bee advisable to start at a much lower dosage and see if you get used to it before increasing it if you choose to increase it at all. It is clinically used at some 10-20mg or so, although many BLers like higher doses, myself included, I tend to start at at least 100mg twice daily, with a top up in the middle at a lower dose), that way any overstimulating properties would be absent or lessened enough to tolerate and try adjusting to.

The great thing about memantine IMO is the voltage-gating sensitivity when binding to the NMDAr ion channel, it only may bind when the channel spits out the magnesium cation which at resting potentials, functions as a channel blocker although one of weak affinity and AFAIK rapid on-off binding kinetics. So thus it is, that memantine, unlike other NMDAr antagonists (a LOT of them I think you would find have dopaminergic activity of some kind, PCP is meant to be quite stimulating, although I'v only ever had analogs of that, never yet phencyclidine itself), can selectivly bind to firing NMDARs, thus limiting excessive NMDAr-mediated glutamatergic signalling without overly interfering with normal synaptic NMDAr function. Perhaps at a lower dose, a far, far lower dose, a tenth or twentieth per dose of what you have jumped in with, if that bee 100mg.

Perhaps this wold allow you to acclimatize and for the overstimulating effects either not to show, or to show in a minor way which would fade with some perseverance at a lower dose. Shit knows, I know all too well about overstimulation, being Kanner's, overstimulation tries to spew out both ends of me at once in meter-long tongues of sensory fire (not that I'd EVER change my being autistic, hell no, I consider myself very fortunate and lucky to have been privileged to be born as such. The overstimulation and sensory gating issues ARE, orat least can be a fucking nuisance however, and I'd gladly flush those two down the shitter, so long as it wouldn't compromise the way I see the world, feel it in so much more and more vivid details)

Perhaps clonidine as an adjunct, if you are not asthmatic or taking heart or BP meds, I take it myself and find it calming and relaxing, stabilizing and great for squashing overstimulation? although be aware that in decreasing noradrenergic release, clonidine, like other drugs of its kind, can also have profound hypotensive effects, especially at too high a dose, such as orthostatic hypotension.

Someone else would needs bee weigh in regarding D2 antagonists, I cannot try myself, for not only does memantine block overstimulation in me rather than cause it, D2 antagonists make me quite ill. I ergo, avoid them like I would avoid sniffing the blood-soaked shitty skidmarked underwear of an Ebola zaire patient.EEEWwWwww! D2 antagonism...nasty! even the least of them, domperidone and promethazine are poison to me.

Just a question-there are D2 heteroreceptors, and a D2 autoreceptor type.

What would be the result of an antagonist or inverse agonist at the D2 autoreceptor?
 
And memantine can indeed be quite fun, I prefer to take what is for me a functional dose,say, 100mg morning, 50 midday then 100 evening/night. (NOT suggesting that for others, merely stating what works for me personally)

But IVing say 300mg-500mg (for ME, not suggesting this level at all for anyone else, I just take to it exceptionally well) can really be quite a trip. Lasts a fuck of a long time, but for me personally, I like just that. (to put it in perspective, I'd go through 15-20g MXE, via the IV route in a week when it was around) And I'd still want more after. I like my dissociatives alright.

Also, lower doses of memantine, mixed with an injectable opioid and IV'ed....fuckme does it ever potentiate/lengthen the rush. Don't think seconds or minutes, think almost an hour, an hour, with a sufficient opioid dose where a HEAVILY tolerant opiate user has to hold on to one's surroundings or have one's knees buckle and end up with their arse on the ground.
 
sorry I meant to write memantine has D2 agonism.

the studies i refer to earlier suggest that D2 agonism can contribute to social anxiety

i am not sure about how it binds to D2 and the importance of it though.
 
the way PCP is produced is likely going to give a dirty product full of toxins/carcinogens. unless you're getting pure PCP which i have never even heard of existing.
 
Pure PCP is not that hard to make (cough cough grignard), also its analogs (3-MeO-PCP, 3-MeO-PCE, etc) are sold in pure forms.

Even if you suspect your PCP has impurities, SWGDRUG has a method for purifying crude PCP, some sort of ion-pair extraction, relies on the fact that PCP.HCl is soluble in dichloromethane/chloroform but most other HCl salts are not. It works really well actually (purity >90% from a crude rxn mix, note you can use chloroform instead of DCM if you prefer)

1. Prepare aqueous solution of PCP salt (if using freebase dissolve in 5% H2SO4), wash with ether/hexanes (contains organic neutrals)
2. Basify to pH 11+ with e.g. sodium/potassium carbonate or sodium/potassium hydroxide, extract with DCM, discard water (contains water soluble neutrals)
3. Add 5% aq H2SO4, shake, discard DCM (water has 2PCP.H2SO4 which is non-soluble in DCM)
4. Add some NaCl (pref. concentrated brine solution), mix well, extract repeatedly (3-5x) with DCM (equilibrium rxn: NaCl + H2SO4 -> 2HCl + Na2SO4). Layers may take a while to separate, adjust density of water layer by adding more water as needed - brine will bring the density CLOSER to DCM and will make layers harder to separate. Note that the DCM, and not the water, contains PCP.HCl at this stage. Separate the DCM and save it, water contains aqueous salts of non-PCP amines.
5. Dry DCM, evaporate, weigh resulting purified PCP.HCl
6. Reconstitute to e.g. between 10mg/mL and 50 mg/mL with distilled water, filter, adjust pH to ~7.

Note that PCP may be physiologically safer than ketamine, especially in regards to bladder concerns, but PCP is not immobilizing the same way ketamine is and can lead to fugue states or other reckless behaviour even in an experienced user.

It is imperative to not use more than threshold doses of PCP or its close friends if you are in periods of mental or physiological stress, grief, or otherwise negative mindsets. It is also strongly advisable to have a trip-sitter on higher doses, especially if you are going to be doing it and going outside in public. If you ignore one or both of these rules you run the very real risk of hurting yourself or others, possible legal trouble, and/or making a fool of yourself.

It is Not Any Fun to spend most of your trip in police cars and holding cells, I can tell you that much.
 
sekio said:
Pure PCP is not that hard to make (cough cough grignard)
Click to expand...

Apparently it's still very much possible to fuck it up though. A 3-MeO-PCP sample from China recently tested as more than 40% PCC (the precursor that reacts with the Grignard reagent to form PCP or its substituted analogues).
 
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There's a grignard method that doesn't involve PCC at all.
 
I haven't messed much with pcp analogs just 4meo-pcp 4 times(the good shit not that PCC contaminated crap) but have done my fair share of ketamine and mxe starting in 2011. I didn't use it quite to the extent some people in this thread have but far more than I should of. I was already in the mist of an emotional crisis when I started due to my physical health getting worse allot worse at the times and treatment not helping. The fact I was still on tramadol when I started doing mxe most likely did it most likely didn't do any good. I stopped getting prescribed tramadol before the bulk of my dissociative use through.


It helped me make positive changes at first like exercising more and joining a gym but after a while shit took a bad turn. I wonder exactly how much of man effect they have had on my mental health they have had and if they have actually done any physical damage.

I've always been wired a tiny bit differently, had insomnia, and dystonia but that shit got way worse after I started using more heavily and even for a long period after I stopped using psyches and dissociatives. I would regularly go entire nights without being able to sleep sometimes 2. I started getting alot of anger issues back then too.
Last time I did mxe was a little dose 1.5 years ago but before that it was like 3 years
I noticed my sleep issues and shakiness has gotten alot better since I stopped but still have mood issues and problems problems concentrating.
I'm not sure how much of the shit that have been going on with me is because of the dissociatives and how much is because of other issues.

I'm just glad the tests I had showed no bladder or kidney damage since the pain I was getting at the time seemed to indicate that something bad was going on down there
 
I've never had a bad high from PCP, it's always been enjoyable just like every other dissociative. It has a bad reputation but I always loved it
 
I know your talking about PCP and Ketamine here, But how safe is MK-801 ? Is it basically the same ?
 
Memantine wasn't a compound I ever took much note of. sekio - have you tried overlaying it with PCP? I mean, UK law attempted to control MXE and it's relatives by making 'all arylcyclohexylamines' controlled drugs (hence diphenidine). But does the substituted adamantane overlay them.

I mean, even dizocilpine has an aromatic... but is it just space-filling?
 
I wouldn't even try Memantine. At lower doses it's really just used as an Alzheimers medication. But at higher doses it's been show to have PCP like effects and PCP like intoxication. I'd rather do Dizocilpine than a high dose of Memantine. There hasn't really been too much research on the recreational use of Memantine anyway. Just a few reports here and there. Usually the trip reports aren't good.
 
I've tried memantine at even really high doses (300mg+) and had nothing negative to report and only mild, but pleasant, dissociative effects. Certainly not comparable to PCP, but as I stated, pleasant anyway.

The Erowid experience vaults on MK801 do not seem "pleasant", and if you are wanting to avoid "PCP type effects"... stay away from all NMDAR antagonists.
 
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