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Mental Health How are you capable of being as happy sober as on your drug of choice?

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Mycophile

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Mar 3, 2014
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So I guess this is kind of a dark thread, but I've been having some problems lately...also for a long time lol.

I've got what should essentially be a good life, and I've got it way better than most probably and I'm happy for what I have, but I'm also lonely and don't have certain other things other people have or have going for them, and i don't feel like going into what they are, but lets just say there are some key things most people say a person needs in their life to really feel happy and I'm lacking some of them and only partially hopefully about attaining them in the near future and unsure if they'll bring happiness and peace of mind anyway, though they will surely help.

I have generalized anxiety disorder, depression, obsessive compulsive disorder, low energy and poor sleep/poor sleep habits, bad self esteem, definitely poly substance abuse, and generally do not feel happy in my own skin a lot of the time when sober.

I mean sometimes I can if things are going REALLY well for me, and it's not like I'm always fucked up cause usually I'm not as heavy a substance user as many around here, but there's generally the feeling in life, when sober at least, that I'm always about 10 major steps away from ever achieving enough to truly make myself happy, that I'm not ok the way I am, that my mind won't stop racing, that i don't have the confidence I want or need, and that even if I can make it through the day and be "ok", nothing really ever changes or makes me truly happy.

But when I take Kratom, it feels like the plant was literally MADE for me personally.

As soon as I take it, I feel confident, full of energy, optimistic, relaxed, clear headed, and while it may SEEM like an illusion since it's a drug, when on it, I act, talk, think and feel as if everything will always work itself out (and it helps me do things I'd have trouble doing otherwise), that all I need is to keep doing my best, and nothing other than the absolute worst tragedies are anything I'd ever spend time worrying about.

This is what I imagine it must feel like to be "normal".

Then it wears off, and I am unwilling to take it more than 3-4 days a week cause I'm afraid of becoming dependent (and I already am a bit) because then I have massive lethargy FOR DAYS and can't do anything without it and need to sleep for like 15 hours and I'd be unemployable and my life would get worse.

I mean, I take Klonopin but it doesn't work as well, but at least it lasts 12 hours and takes a long time IMO for me to go into WD (I never have personally), but I can't live a life having to dose every FOUR hours on something (Kratom) that may be made illegal, or even if it never is, that's still too strong an immediate dependency for me to be ok with.

If they told me that it would stay legal forever, and they were coming out with 12 or 24 hour extended release Kratom pills and I could just pay ex-amount of money for a life time supply, I'd probably stock up and spend every day of my life on it forever and I truly feel many of my problems would go away because I would think and act with the confidence necessary to make my life what I want it to be...but that just can't happen.

Sooner or later, I have to face life sober.

Does anyone hear ever feel as happy or peaceful sober as when on their drug of choice??

And to be clear I am NOT REALLY talking about the euphoria side of the drug (though it helps), I just mean it making your mental health symptoms go away, your depression, anxiety, etc.

I stopped for almost a year and forgot about it for a while, but life got boring and the desire came back.

Unless I can make some MAJOR changes in my life, I doubt I will ever feel half of as good as I do when I take Kratom.


Anyone else feel this way about their drug of choice and their mental health problems?
 
It's a whole other league of sorts...until one becomes sober for a long period of time, they don't appreciate how superior it is to getting high regularly.
 
Ho-Chi-Minh said:
It's a whole other league of sorts...until one becomes sober for a long period of time, they don't appreciate how superior it is to getting high regularly.
Click to expand...

Spot on. I am only 47 days in sobriety but already it feels a bit better at times compared to being drunk on my own.
 
I doubt it but i dont talk about it if you asked in person id say drugs oo no they dont do anything i get happiness from my morning run. I dont even know what your talking about.
 
Personally, I feel terrible mentally all the time unless I take some form of drug, which I don't really do much anymore because it makes me feel twice as bad when it wears off. So the answer for me is absolutely not, not even close. I haven't even felt a neutral emotional state in years let alone a happy state.
 
I have had less reactions with “drugs” than I have prescriptions. I doubt I’ve ever felt the way a textbook or PhD. thinks I should. Sometimes I safely self-medicate along with a low dose SSRI, usually Prozac is my old standby and keep it all in my own lane. Eventually, drug or no drug, I crash. I’m tiresome to myself.

I do, however, feel a little better when taking happy drugs while I’m not quite fallen, especially when I manage to function so well, I begin to believe it might all be okay and I might not be sick anymore.

I’m always wrong, and was almost fatally wrong, thanks to an over testeroned SWAT team, this time, but eventually I’ll do my time/prison/commitment/whathaveyou and will come out stronger and get an even more influential, professional job helping others because I can be too smart sometimes and I’ll start thinking I’m well again, or maybe I wasn’t really sick to start with.

Drugs will help blur that confusion and maybe even delay the inevitable.
 
Mycophile, there's a big difference between abusing a drug as a euphoriant and using it therapeutically. I'm prescribed two antidepressants (three if you count the occasional trazodone for sleep), Adderall for ADHD and Ativan for panic attacks. I'm not going to quit any of my prescribed medications anytime soon because the quality of life they allow me to have outweighs any need to be chemical-free. I don't abuse the Adderall or Ativan and I don't use them to get high, so I don't see any need for me to stop taking them. People have self-righteously gotten in my face at 12 step meetings saying that if you're taking anything, you're not "sober," (most of these people obviously have ongoing mental disorders) but if they'd rather suffer than take a medication, whatever dude. And when I talk about quality of life, feeling ok with myself and the world around me allows me to not have to self-medicate by possibly abusing those prescription medications, or more likely, drinking myself into an alcoholic stupor. It doesn't seem like it at the time I'm doing it, but being active outside, going out with friends or just sitting quietly at home with a book or movie is so much more satisfying than being passed out. As far as the kratom goes, I personally don't take it anymore, but IMO it's relatively harmless compared other substances that have the same effect. I wouldn't fret over kratom use. As for the legality aspect of kratom, I don't think the DEA will schedule it. The bigger threats come from state and local governments. This South Florida zealot has filed a bill three times to ban kratom and it failed each time. Two of those times, the bill didn't even make it out of committee. When you look at where kratom has been banned, it's mostly the hellhole states like Alabama, Tennessee, Arkansas, Indiana etc. so as long as you don't live in one of those places, I wouldn't worry about it. Last time I visited my mother in Tennessee, I just had to drive a half hour over the Kentucky state line to get it.
 
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I think i'm more happy sober than i am when dabbling with drugs.

The reason i dabble, is because i want new, heightened experiences. And during those experiences, yeah, i'm more "happy". But it's fleeting and has no basis in reality. It's not a life style i'd want for myself to become addicted, even though my therapist would tell you i'm addicted to "drugs in general". Anyway, i see them as another hobby. Video games, which cost money, collections of sorts, which cost money, cars, shelter, food, oh, and drugs. Just here and there, though. Like everything else - in moderation.
 
If I remember to back when I was sober for an extended period of time, I was probably happier overall but that may also be because I was younger and had a different living situation. That said, I haven't found anything that matches the euphoria of stimulants even during years of sobriety. I think the quantity and frequency of drug use is what will determine whether or not you are happier or not.
 
If sobriety includes medication without any false presentation and taken as prescribed, then yes, sobriety is fine.
 
Ho-Chi-Minh said:
If sobriety includes medication without any false presentation and taken as prescribed, then yes, sobriety is fine.
Click to expand...

Morally speaking I think all drug use is "fine" as in I don't believe in drug use as being immoral but simply as objects that can have various effects, some positive some negative (well, unless you do really irresponsible things under the influence, like shoot up in front of kids, etc.)

I wasn't asking about morality.

I don't know why but you strike me as someone who thinks that using substances in order to get high or inebriated is wrong, which I don't, but I could be wrong.

Yeah, the only issues for me are withdrawal or fatigue or side effects physically speaking from substances, mainly the fatigue I get from too much Kratom, the fatigue I get from too much of my prescribed Klonopin, and believe it or not, the anxiety and also rebound fatigue caused by coffee, which actually I find to be the most destructive substance to my quality of life I've ever used as I have a compulsion to drink a lot of it which causes me to need more Klonopin and messes with my energy levels.

Although on a psychological level I don't think it's great to rely on substances either, but I think that's less of an issue than if you get physical side effects or withdrawal from a substance.

I believe in a world where all drugs are decriminalized as long as you are 18 and over in the privacy of your own home, and where people actually don't even need prescriptions to purchase drugs.

In my perfect world (which it ain't lol), doctors would mostly just serve as advisors so that people would know whether or not there were risks involved.

Basically, I'd probably make it a law the people are required to consult physicians prior to using certain new drugs (probably not all of them) and there would have to be written proof you'd simply TALKED to the doctor before you can get your drugs (whatever kind they may be), but he would not have to consent to you having them, he'd simply use harm reduction to advise you of the risks.

I'd only have that be the case because I think people should know what they are doing, and that probably doctors would serve a better job as health advisors than drug czars who say what you can and can't have.

Basically, I'd bring it back to the early 20th century and earlier where you could get any drug you want over the counter.

Sure, people would die of overdoses and all sorts of bad interactions, but that already happens, and I believe in the right of the person to choose what they want to put in their own bodies, and we'd no longer have people spending their lives in prison for victimless crimes.

IMO, as long as you are aware of the risks you are taking and aren't taking anyone along with you or driving a car, your body is your own to do with what you will.

Whether or not it's a good idea is an entirely different matter, but I think that should be up to each person to decide.
 
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aihfl said:
Mycophile, there's a big difference between abusing a drug as a euphoriant and using it therapeutically. I'm prescribed two antidepressants (three if you count the occasional trazodone for sleep), Adderall for ADHD and Ativan for panic attacks. I'm not going to quit any of my prescribed medications anytime soon because the quality of life they allow me to have outweighs any need to be chemical-free. I don't abuse the Adderall or Ativan and I don't use them to get high, so I don't see any need for me to stop taking them. People have self-righteously gotten in my face at 12 step meetings saying that if you're taking anything, you're not "sober," (most of these people obviously have ongoing mental disorders) but if they'd rather suffer than take a medication, whatever dude. And when I talk about quality of life, feeling ok with myself and the world around me allows me to not have to self-medicate by possibly abusing those prescription medications, or more likely, drinking myself into an alcoholic stupor. It doesn't seem like it at the time I'm doing it, but being active outside, going out with friends or just sitting quietly at home with a book or movie is so much more satisfying than being passed out. As far as the kratom goes, I personally don't take it anymore, but IMO it's relatively harmless compared other substances that have the same effect. I wouldn't fret over kratom use. As for the legality aspect of kratom, I don't think the DEA will schedule it. The bigger threats come from state and local governments. This South Florida zealot has filed a bill three times to ban kratom and it failed each time. Two of those times, the bill didn't even make it out of committee. When you look at where kratom has been banned, it's mostly the hellhole states like Alabama, Tennessee, Arkansas, Indiana etc. so as long as you don't live in one of those places, I wouldn't worry about it. Last time I visited my mother in Tennessee, I just had to drive a half hour over the Kentucky state line to get it.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

Yeah, the only issue I have with Kratom is I don't like to be dependent on it and using it causes me to get fatigue on my off days which can become too much of an issue in terms of productivity.

Unlike some I won't allow myself to use it more than 3 days a week, but eventually even that much catches up to me and I get withdrawal.

Now I'm going to have to stop for at least a month, probably longer, because my tolerance is too high, and I may or may not use it again.

I'd just be lying if I said it wasn't causing some issues, but I'd also be lying if I said I'd never use it again, and I believe it to be a safe substance, but nevertheless it causes WD.

I find it to treat my anxiety and depression better than anything else, but simply because I don't want to be dependent I can't give in to taking it daily.

If I were to take it daily, in all reality, in many ways the quality of my life would probably improve for a while, but eventually it would catch up with me and I can't let that happen, so it's time to take a long break of an undetermined length now to regain my energy.
 
Kudos to picking that up, as it was a subtle tone. I definitely can act self-righteous because of what I've been able to accomplish in that realm.

I am proud of it to an extent, that being that because I managed to keep clean. It wasn't easy, though, so I think that some of my sentiment is well-earned.

But yup I take a medication. Other than that, drugs have almost always screwed with me and lift me in a worse place. I wish I never would have tried to find them. It's much easier to find out what benefits real life has in store. Lots of people only realize the extent to which they're doing to their body and life after they rail, push the plunger, exhale, and so on...

I mean it's really sad. I narrowly missed the opioid epidemic, so I guess there's some luck in this life! Still waiting for people to call very close friends.

I'll keep waiting. I'm too old to screw around with that stuff anymore.

Honestly, I'm concerned with the law, money, and solid relationships. I can't have those if I frequently seek out and ingest something that will make me feel good for a few hours, and damage my already sensitive brain. It's party favors, at least for me.

I won't lie, though. I had great times in the past with all kinds of stuff. But I even turned into a fiend with weed, so I'm no good at trying to "chip", which like 2% of opioid users can do, or just keep to snorting. I'd be the guy that snorts for a month then goes "all right now where's the real gear for this shit".

Never will do crack. Never will do meth. I like stimulants that damn much. What am I saying lol, I'll never do any of that shit for at least tons of years but never ever ever those two.

Stuff is always different, though. I mean back in the late 19th-early 20th, there wasn't communication across the state and world of how "this one ingredient would make you feel like heaven." Hell, I'm sure heroin did a great job at beating morphine addiction.

That said, we wouldn't know about ibogaine if it weren't for globalization and so on. That's my ramble.
 
Ho-Chi-Minh said:
Kudos to picking that up, as it was a subtle tone. I definitely can act self-righteous because of what I've been able to accomplish in that realm.

I am proud of it to an extent, that being that because I managed to keep clean. It wasn't easy, though, so I think that some of my sentiment is well-earned.

But yup I take a medication. Other than that, drugs have almost always screwed with me and lift me in a worse place. I wish I never would have tried to find them. It's much easier to find out what benefits real life has in store. Lots of people only realize the extent to which they're doing to their body and life after they rail, push the plunger, exhale, and so on...

I mean it's really sad. I narrowly missed the opioid epidemic, so I guess there's some luck in this life! Still waiting for people to call very close friends.

I'll keep waiting. I'm too old to screw around with that stuff anymore.

Honestly, I'm concerned with the law, money, and solid relationships. I can't have those if I frequently seek out and ingest something that will make me feel good for a few hours, and damage my already sensitive brain. It's party favors, at least for me.

I won't lie, though. I had great times in the past with all kinds of stuff. But I even turned into a fiend with weed, so I'm no good at trying to "chip", which like 2% of opioid users can do, or just keep to snorting. I'd be the guy that snorts for a month then goes "all right now where's the real gear for this shit".

Never will do crack. Never will do meth. I like stimulants that damn much. What am I saying lol, I'll never do any of that shit for at least tons of years but never ever ever those two.

Stuff is always different, though. I mean back in the late 19th-early 20th, there wasn't communication across the state and world of how "this one ingredient would make you feel like heaven." Hell, I'm sure heroin did a great job at beating morphine addiction.

That said, we wouldn't know about ibogaine if it weren't for globalization and so on. That's my ramble.
Click to expand...

Congrats on your accomplishments.

Yeah, I just don't think anyone should preach to others not to use recreational substances, even though they can be problematic, I don't believe recreational drug use is wrong, it can just be, and often is (but not ALWAYS is) harmful.

I also have issues, and I won't deny I agree with much of what you are saying.

I'd be better off if I hadn't discovered a few substances, mainly actually caffeine believe it or not as it directly contributed to panic attacks due to an underlying anxiety disorder which has now made me new Klonopin which I'd rather not need and has caused some issues of it's own, but I need it, and also Kratom, which while I love it, I'd probably have to use it every day for the rest of my life if I wanted to avoid WD, and since I am not willing to allow myself to become that dependent, I end up using for a while in moderation and being ok, then it gets bad so I stop, and then, so far, have slipped up again.

It's not a moral thing, I just don't want to mess up my life, but I'd be lying if I said I felt at a point where i could guarantee I'd never use recreational substances, nor do i want to never use them again, but there are certain I'd be better off stopping for sure.

Psychedelics I think are better, especially shrooms, but I have no access to them, and actually believe they could be helpful for me.

i think if I could look forward to one weekly and relevatively benign (physically speaking) shroom trip per week I could probably quit all substances.

Instead, because our messed up governement makes things like that hard to find, I end up using certain substances which, though not super bad like heroin, meth or crack, can cause dependence.

But I still would never try to preach that recreational substances are wrong to use as I don't believe they are immoral, it's more of a matter of what happens to you in your life when you use them.

I envy those people who react really well to weed and can get all kinds of great stuff done while on it, because it's one of the most benign substances out there, but for me, despite the fact that I smoked for years, I can't be productive on it, and don't even love it that much any more, and the substances which CAN help me be productive are dependence forming so I am trying to cut back or quit some of them.

I would still tell anyone to go ahead and experiment with any substance they want so long as they are adults in their own homes and not with kids around, and just that they should know the dangers involved, and I fully believe the war on drugs needs to end.
 
In the venture to provide greater mental health, using drugs in self-medicating to deal with one's issues doesn't fit into this. At most, it doesn't hurt, but usually is at least a bit detrimental, just for sake of clarity.

The theory goes that it's "when", not "of", regarding relapse. But I could see that statement, believed by addicts, to reduce the rate of relapse.

I loved Kratom. Then I had to go off of the stuff. Taking mitragynine and its metabolite in a purified, XR version could really, really help out people. But its profit, not human advance, that these drug makers care about, legal and (obs) illegal. I don't miss shoveling tons of powdered plant crap into my mouth several times a day. Good news is that since it really is opioid addiction, one should be eligible for bupe.

The problem is that most people aren't going to spend several weeks clean before getting the stuff. Hell, it was really gone over in "Gridlocked" (sp?). It's a movie with Tupac and this other guy playing addicts that want to get clean. So they go all over town, and the idea is that it takes soooo much energy and effort to just get into detox, which most don't want to do in the first place--its so easy to just say "fuck it" and buy their fix. That said, the film is about 20 years old. Sadly, things haven't gotten that much better. SMFH.

I can see various psychedelics to be useful in medicinal doses for me in the future. Totally can relate to lack of shrooms/acid leading to using drugs that don't provide any lasting therapy.

Ha I still miss weed. Grew up with that shit being pumped into my lungs.

Yeah, but as things are now, best to not use the hard shit. Heroin is literally a huge fatal risk at this point in the US. Meth ruins people entirely. Cocaine does too, is cut to shit, and leads people to replace their brains with directions to the next closest crack destination (both in terms of butt and smokable form).
 
This is something I'm battling with right now. The main issue being I have no hobbies or anything to do without drugs or alcohol
 
My drug of choice is weed. I'm on tolerance break and after a 3 day adjustment period yes.
 
Yes, but being sober most of the time is sooooo fucking boring. I appreciate some stuff sober and I appreciate some stuff fucked.
 
I am cool without being "high". Until I'm not.
Sober gives me a lift in energy and drive. Mind gets sharp (maybe too).
Sober also brings pain (mental, emotional and physical) and a nervous energy combined with anxiety that leaves me on an edge that can create unpredictable behaviors.
I do not care for any of the above so much... at least not all the time.
I will use for the rest of my life. Have no problem with that. Beats the alternative. Just trying to find that balance.
Thought provoking question... IMO.
 
I have to find a new "happy" somehow because anything felt on Adderall was a lie. It distorts your reality and whatever you feel on it is not real. Sometimes, I find myself romanticizing the good times, but I'm proud of myself for being done with it.

People on a high horse say they don't abuse it, but I've seen plenty of stories about people who never abused it until later in life once tolerance kicks in or once stress kicks in. Even if people take the same dose for years, they will realize it doesn't work as well eventually and want to come off of it. That's when the withdrawal is debilitating. It hits them that it helped them to do everything. It became their identity/motivation and the only way they could even get out of bed.
With amphetamines, you think you're doing well, but after using it long enough, you'll see the drug was just fooling you.

Any pill that distorts/masks your reality is not good. If anyone has major depression, anxiety and ADHD, I would discourage them from trying amphetamines. It works at first, but once the honeymoon period is over, it's hell. It's false hope in a bottle then you're back to square one.

I wish I was never prescribed it. The fact it's given to anyone, especially children should be a crime.

People lose their identity/motivation and don't know who they are anymore without the drug. Being sober from it is a challenging process. You have to be patient with yourself. I'm over 3 months sober, but I've read the first year of sobriety is the hardest.

There are bad days and good days. Amphetamines make you feel like every day should be happy 24/7 and that's unrealistic.

So no, I'm not as "happy" as I was on my drug of choice, but that kind of happy wasn't sustainable. I'm glad I kicked it.

I'm thinking about looking into an MAOI like Nardil for treatment-resistant depression. It worked well in the past.

Oh, I was once into Kratom too like OP, but tolerance built.
 
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