1,3-diphenyl-2-aminopropane

[Limpet_Chicken]

thread title altere, benzhydryl stimulants, best of the bunch?

Does anybody have any ideas about the bioactivity of 1,3-diphenyl-2-aminopropane/beta-phenylamphetamine or beta-phenylmethamphetamine, beta-phenyl-N-ethylamphetamine?

Edit-2,2-diphenyl, we aren't looking for lefetamine analogs here, but desoxypipradrol-esque long duration stimulants, ideally those modifications with as little noradrenergic activity as possible.

 

[sekio]

I think this has already been discussed a little in an old thread of yours.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Sort of, although in that case it was mostly the lefetamine type compounds I'm interested in, here, it'd be starting from the corresponding P2P, and the standard imine formation/abstraction of H2O with mol. sieves and borohydride reduction for the alkylated compounds, or for N-unsubstituted beta-phenylamphetamine, formation of the ketoxime and Boveault-Blanc reduction, two steps from the start point, needing nothing special by way of reagents, only hydroxylamine, a weak base like NaOAc to deprotonate the NH2OH.HCl, EtOH and sodium. All pretty mundane, more or less trying to decide whether the nature of the end products would be worth it.

And curious,regarding lefetamine analogs, unconnected to the above, but they are diarylethanamines, have the corresponding aminopropanes been investigated to see whether or not they form a series complementary to one another, as with the phenethylamines and psychedelic amphetamines for example.

 

[clubcard]

Lefetamine isn't very good. I seem to recall that phenolic derivatives have better activity but it isn't a very interesting field - trust me, I plowed that field and isophenidine was the best I came across. If you want simple, dimethylaminopivalophenone derivatives are much more interesting area. It overlays 3,3-dimethyl pethidine. The fact that in multiple related series, the 3,3-dimethyl is more potent than the racemate of the 3-monomethyl kind of suggests that disubstitution doesn't cause any problem. If you look at propiram derivatives along with phenylpiperidine derivatives, the QSAR isn't too complex.

Of course, opioids are generally rather dangerous. The hazardous nature can be circumvented by design but it appears that a little more work to make an inherently safe compound is too much effort... or possibly we just don't hear about compounds that aren't harming people. I can recall a patent for a propiram derivative that was specifically designed not to be water-soluble so it wouldn't feed the needle. R-4066 derivatives should have been studied long before now but apparently keeping people alive isn't a good enough motive.

Circumventing legal issues isn't difficult. Solving safety issues and being confident that people will not be harmed is much, much harder. I've not been able to square that one. 1 person harmed is still 1 too many.

 

[Dresden]

Probably does something?

 

[Dresden]

Try this instead:

CLUBCARD.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Yeah, have read about dimethylaminopivalophenone, although someone seemed to have trouble with the synthesis in practice, to the point where they were about to give up and switch projects to N-(n)-butyryl-N-cinnamylpiperazine instead.

Although this thread looks like its about to get confused, given this is a structural isomer of lefetamine. Looking at this from a stimulant angle, rather than wondering if it had dissociative properties. Wouldn't complain it it does, just happen to have some of the ketone around somewhere, so it might as well end up getting tested, given its only an oximation and reduction away from the title compound, or else formation of a methyl or ethyl imine with the appropriate amine+mol.sieves and reduction of the imine to secondary amine derivatives.

And clubcard, I certainly get what you mean about opioids in general, and I'm all for better ones, but you probably don't need to worry too much about me dropping dead from any mid-high potency range ones, and I don't bugger about making anything that would need an NBC suit, unless you count factors owing to reagents needed rather than the actual product itself, nasty reagents don't count, given they aren't going to be hanging around once the product is purified.

The dependency/tolerance horse has already bolted, quite some time ago. I'm a chronic pain patient, and have been for way too long. All the shitty business that opioids can cause, they already have, aside from allodynia. And nerve damage means the opioids don't have to.

 

[clubcard]

ALL of the 1,2-diphenylethylamine derivatives are crap. I've had cause to taste them all. If you follow AH-7921 (0.7 x M = crap - didn't bother) to U-47700 (7.5 x M =nice but not safe) to U-77891 (75 x M = pretty safe and trans-N,1-dimethyl-1-azaspiro[4.5]decane-6-amine isn't actually that expensive to order from Chinese fine chemical companies) then you quicky realize 'shit, I've just walked up to fentanyl potency from an uncontrolled precursor!' which is when you have to consider a safe format. I posit that powder is certainly NOT a safe format. Sublingual 0.5mg tablets works for me and putting into patient packs with real livery in English, French & German (at least) means it is a bit more work but people aren't dying right, left and center. That last point being the important bit.



Dresden, 1-(4-methylphenyl)-2-phenyl-2-(pyrrolidin-1-yl)ethanone is the best stimulant in the class. Add much more and solubility makes them unpleasant to take (by any effective route). I seem to remember many of them also end outside the Rules-of-5. It's nothing more than realizing that a phenyl ring is a bioisostere of an N-propyl moiety for simple monoamines. The ketone can be replaced with a sulfonyl as well (another common bioisostere). You can't really miss with such simple molecules. Ring substitution is usually NOT of benefit so always go from simple to complex; don't over-trust the in-silico models.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Do you mean crap for opioid potential, or crap for stimulant effects?

Because in this case I'm not LOOKING for opioids, not looking for lefetamine analogs, but for amphetamine analogs.

Sulfonyl versions of cathinones? interesting. Got much more to say about them? I bet they stink something awful though, or at least, taste like shite. Or at least, the syntheses are going to be traumatic. I have pondered the idea of replacing the C=O bond in a cathinone with a thioketone, but given its somewhat of an unknown quantity, producing a hitherto unknown analog, based on what I've read of thioacetone as a model, that is somewhat offputting. Having the entire city chasing after me with pitchforks and torches isn't an appealing prospect

 

[adder]

Limpet_Chicken, haven't you messed up the compound's name in the thread title? Perhaps hence the confusion. Beta-phenylamphetamine is 1,1-diphenyl-2-aminopropane, 1,3-diphenyl-2-aminopropane is alpha-benzylphenethylamine. Right now I'm not sure which one you're asking about, I have never seen the alpha-methyl group's carbon atom in amphetamine to be referred as beta in compounds with phenethylamine backbone, the beta position is the benzylic carbon atom. Beta-phenylmethamphetamine has an entry on English Wiki with one reference in German, this paper is cited by one paper on pipradrol analogues IIRC. I imagine with beta-phenylamphetamines you're looking at stimulants which are more like desoxypipradrol than amphetamine, i.e. long-acting DAT/NET inhibitors.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Gah, teach me to post when drunk. Got the diphenylacetic acid a long time ago, took me a while to find the bloody stuff, I screwed up with the numbering. Major hangover, but can at least type straight.

Will have to amend the thread title, but substitution pattern is 2,2-diphenyl, as would stem from the ketone corresponding to CAS 117-34-0 to clarify. Was a long time ago I'd acquired the stuff, and I should know better than to post from a fairly distant memory whilst pished

I'm thinking something along the lines of desoxy/pipradrol or perhaps a somewhat bastardized phenmetrazine analog now.

 

[clubcard]

If you are going for a stimulant based on a diphenylmethyl scaffold, the thiomorpholine seems to be the best. The oxidation of the S means the duration isn't so long. Again, tasted all of these and fencamfamine and phenmetrazine seem the best. The former has some opioid activity (overlay with tiletamine and see why) which can be enhanced by adding a lone-pair baring moiety (overlay with tiletamine and see which).

I would think that the ketone wouldn't be too hard to acquire. It's also worth pointing out that UK law doesn't cover the alpha fluoromethyl derivatives of 1-aryl-2-aminopropanes.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Does now. What with that boneheaded bitch queen and her psychoactives bill.

Fortunately for me, I couldn't care less

Why the thiomorpholine rather than the morpholine? longer duration could have its appeal, and if 3-fluorophenmetrazine was anything to go by, the family might have a fair few winners in there, going from the reputation also of preludin. 3-FPM is, thus far, probably the finest stimulant I've ever tried. I'm more than up for checking out a few more permutations in the family.

Pipradrol or desoxypipradrol analogs would be worth it too, if desoxy was anything to go by, it seemed to make the ideal functional stimulant, dosed low, I found it a quite ideal mood lifter, dosed at a few hundred ug, twice daily, rather than aiming for a balls to the wall speed freak type experience, can't say as I've ever really tended towards that way. Done my share of stimulants, sure, but they don't really hold any addictive tendencies or that I've had any chronically relevant reinforcing effects of note, a single session with repeated dosing, yes, but never chronically.

 

[clubcard]

As I said - the S is in it's +2 state but the body will oxidize it and then it's LogP drops so unlike most of the class, if doesn't have a ridiculous duration.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

I didn't find 3-FPM to have an excessive duration. About right actually IMO, when using it for speedballs with dipropionylmorphine. Now thats a recipe for a helluva blast off. And the lovely long duration of dipropionylmorphine combined with a good duration for the stimulant actually makes for a speedball shot mixture that has legs and doesn't lend itself to a ridiculously fiendy nature.