Mental Health Valium 'vs' Klonopin. Difference and why?

[Mighty-oak]

I am currently prescribed Valium 25mg a day for anxiety/agoraphobia, been on this dose daily for 17 years. I was prescribed Klonopin 1mg to be taken daily 9 years ago for the same reason, anxiety and agoraphobia.
A few years ago I started to taper my Valium. I went from 25mg a day to 10mg a day within 5 months. Some slight withdrawals like anxiety. I have been taking 10mg every morning now for the past few years.
I started my Klonopin taper but it is so so much harder to withdraw than Valium.
My question is...... Why is Klonopin a lot harder to withdraw from, does it contain other things than Valium? Klonopin kind of made me happy and very very effective for anxiety.....But I hit tolerance thus me needing to withdraw.
Both of these meds are benzos, so why does one make you feel drowsy (Valium) and the other one happy (Klonopin) ?

Current dose of both meds is 10mg Valium in the morning when I wake up.
Klonopin around 5pm and current dose is just under 0.125mg, a very small dose.

Any insight if K has another compound in it like an anti-d or something else would be great to know.

Thanks in advance for any any replies/help/advice.

 

[Tranced]

My guesses:

1. Because klonopin is the more effective benzo for you or
2. Because you've been on benzos for a longer time period now, so withdrawal is harder or
3. Because you have become more sensative to withdrawal due to the effect of kindling

Perhaps a little bit (or a lot) of all of the above.

 

[steewith2ees]

Clonazepam does not produce the active metabolites that diazepam does and as such once the effect wears off, it stops dead as opposed to the tail end effects that diazepam has through its AM's.

That is why although c - pam is more useful for tapering than most benzos, diazepam and chlordiazopoxide are the best.

 

[Mighty-oak]

Great and helpful replies, thanks

Here comes the strange bit! My Clonazepam dose is equivalent (roughly) to 1/4 of a milligram of Diazepam. My Dr has prescribed me a load of 2mg tablets. But......I am too scared to swap my tiny dose of Clonazepam for say just 1mg of Diazepam, I really dont know why? At present I am using digital jewellery scales and a knife to weigh the tiny amount of Clonazepam.
Example of weights. A 0.5mg Clonazepam weighs 0.200 on the scales, so 0.25mg Clonazepam = 0.100 and 0.125mg = 0.050. My current dose is 0.005, so it is a tiny crumb, yet I have to take this crumb. I think it is physiological now?
My anxiety is just crazy. I have to take my 10mg of Diazepam at 8am and my Clonazepam at 5pm, those exact times, cant be earlier or later. Really am stuck here with this anxiety, well, agoraphobia as not even left my home for 5 months, anxiety is just crazy high as soon as I open my front door.

 

[Rafayte]

Valium is diazepam, a long action benzo mainly anxiolytic and is used in anxiety as well as muscle relaxant and anticonvulsive. Here in Spain the brand name Valium only is in 5 and 10mg tablets and I was prescribed diazepam in 25mg tablets but it wasn't Valium but Diazepam Prodes 25mg. Klonopin is clonazepam, too a long action benzo mainly anxiolytic and anticonvulsive but also is a mood equalizer. Here in Spain clonazepam only is as Rivotril in 0'25, 0'5, 1 and 2mg tablets. Diazepam has a faster onset than clonazepam which can takes until three hours for start its action while diazepam acts in half an hour after the intake. Both benzos are used in epilepsy as anticonvulsive.

 

[steewith2ees]

So, you are taking 0.0125 mg's of clonazepam? That dose, or 0.25 mg of diazepam would not have any noticeable effect in the majority of people regardless of whether they are benzodiazepine naive or not.

It appears that your anxiety management requires reassessment as you have tapered both of your medications as well as you possibly can (apart from a few split hairs in their chemistry and perceived effect, diazepam and clonazepam are essentially the same drug). Neither medication is effective for anxiety when taken for suck a long period and only really work when taken in short term courses (2 - 4 weeks) or 'as required'.

 

[Mighty-oak]

Thanks greatly for the advice! So my current dose of Clonazepam will be doing pretty much nothing? I dont know why but I feel I have to have it?

The past 9 years I have been taking it at the same time, maybe it is more of a habit now?

 

[MrRoot]

Benzos are really habit forming so what you are dealing right now is probably just psychological withdrawals.

I know people who compulsively dose drugs although their effects has been suspended by other drugs ie. antagonists so it doesn't make sense at all why they do it but they just do it as they seem to feel that they just have to.

In example a person who is on buprenorphine maintenance still takes full agonist opiates like heroin although it doesn't work at all as buprenorphine prevents the action of the heroin.

That is just compulsive behaviour that cannot be justified by sense.

Edit:
You may just buy some Pez candies and take those two times a day while trying to confirm yourself that they are benzos.

 

[Lorne???]

Just too note, Clonazepam has modest effects on serotonin, unlike Valium, and, it holds longer, despite the press

Your dose seems subtherauptic, like <1mg dzp, although weighing w/ a scale is questionable; Luck to ya man/woman/Shadow Person

 

[Mighty-oak]

Thanks so much for the helpful replies. I joined a benzo forum, but the stories on there scare the s#it out of me! I feel a lot better now with the above responses.

 

[Tubbs]

Moving to mental health.

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

Thanks so much for the helpful replies. I joined a benzo forum, but the stories on there scare the s#it out of me! I feel a lot better now with the above responses.

Hi Mighty oak, I'm going to move this to MH to keep the discussion going. If you would like to have it moved back into here (OD) after a while, PM me and we'll work it out. Thanks & Good Luck

Edit: Sry tubbs don't know how i didn't see ur post.

 

[crubsc]

Replying to your question: "Why is Klonopin a lot harder to withdraw from?"

Because Klonopin (Clonazepam) has a shorter half-life (18h-50h), so it stays less time in your body than Diazepam (20h-100h of half-life), which means that your body will "want" more Clonazepam earlier than it would do for Diazepam. Check this website for comparison of benzos:

https://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

I would also like to mention that there is a "technique" of withdraw from benzos by using Diazepam together with other benzos with a shorter half-life (like tapering off from Clonazepam using Diazepam together), check it on this website:

https://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzsched.htm (Schedules 5 and 6 are for withdrawal of Clonazepam)

I hope I could answer to your question.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Valium is absorbed faster and in addition otherwise is more recreational. It also produces temazepam as a metabolite, which is also oftentimes regarded as the most recreational of them. I've heard that Valium can produce terrible depression over time while on it, but also that this is not true.

While Klonopin may have a shorter overall half-life, that doesn't necessarily mean shorter therapeutic duration.

Valium still has quite a little stigma.

Klonopin, I believe, has greater efficacy as an anti-epileptic, and as an anti-manic agent.