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    New job and terrible anxiety 
    #1
    I was laid off from my job over 6 months ago and got unemployment. Now after being of for over this 6 month's my anxiety has gotten way worse and I can't imagine having to go back to the 9-5 grind. And my anxiety seems to be holding me back from wanting to ever get a job due to it making me feel physically Ill and I'm not sure what to do at this point...
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    Bluelighter yompf's Avatar
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    I feel you I'm in the same boat . I just quit my job. Now I have to find another this month.
    I'm so sick of customers and having to please people .
    I'm tired of this matrix where we are forced into slavery . It's not natural to any of us , it's not who we are , that's why we hate it so much . IMO.
    I don't want to be addicted to anything ever again . Self medicating has too many consequences and makes your problems worse in the long run .
    What are your options as far as jobs go? I was thinking of getting a guard card to do security since it pays good. Or find an overnight stocker job or something so I don't have to be around many people.
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    #3
    I like yompf’s idea to seek employment in a different work environment.

    I read one one of your threads asking about experiences with Buspar (it gave me massive stomach pain so I couldn’t stay on it). What does your doctor think about your ability to work? I’m not suggesting you can’t work...but it sounds like your health has definitely impacted your employment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpunk5000 View Post
    I was laid off from my job over 6 months ago and got unemployment. Now after being of for over this 6 month's my anxiety has gotten way worse and I can't imagine having to go back to the 9-5 grind. And my anxiety seems to be holding me back from wanting to ever get a job due to it making me feel physically Ill and I'm not sure what to do at this point...
    What sort of work did you do? Perhaps it is simply that type of work that is causing this anxiety?

    I can really relate, I am currently not working after being losing my dream job through intoxication. Was a total disaster period, and I have struggled to find ongoing work since, a few temp roles but nothing more, and not much as a result either. But, I had been experiencing terrible anxiety going to my dream job, I was waking early feeling sickto the point of vomiting and almost panicked- totally hard to contain anxiety, so of course I was self-medicating heavily- what a fucking great idea that was(n't) My last job, which went for about 3 months (contract role) started well, no anxiety in the mornings and relatively calm during the day but just went downhill towards the end, and for no reason: the job was simple, and the place was calm with few disruptions. Always feeling sick and sweaty, I felt out-of-place and awkward and started making mistakes due to the confusion that anxiety kicks in for me. I do value the role anyway, because it helped me realise that I totally needed to get help for this problem giving how deeply it was effecting me physically, and I've been seeing a therapist ever since. Practising things like meditation, and deep breathing, refocusing the mind, grounding oneself and addressing cognitive distortions. I've found it really useful, mainly the breathwork tbh. OP, have you considered it? I think that once anxiety makes you physically ill, its probably time you tried to address it somehow. I hope that me relating my own story and possible resolution has helped in some small way. I'm curious to see how useful it is whenever I can get back to work

    Short version is think about doing lots of meditation and practise deep breathing, and maybe consider therapy.

    All the best, hit us back when you can and if you have any questions or anything, have at it
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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by yompf View Post
    I feel you I'm in the same boat . I just quit my job. Now I have to find another this month.
    I'm so sick of customers and having to please people .
    I'm tired of this matrix where we are forced into slavery . It's not natural to any of us , it's not who we are , that's why we hate it so much . IMO.
    I don't want to be addicted to anything ever again . Self medicating has too many consequences and makes your problems worse in the long run .
    What are your options as far as jobs go? I was thinking of getting a guard card to do security since it pays good. Or find an overnight stocker job or something so I don't have to be around many people.
    I can understand why you feel that way, but I think you should just realize that's your opinion and not a fact.

    Sure, it has its problems, and I think psychologically it can be an issue cause I myself do wonder with my meds if I can do my work without them, but many people are able to do jobs they wouldn't otherwise by using certain substances and it just becomes a fact of their lives and they might actually be better off for it if the other alternative is not being able to do the job at all but remain substance free.

    What about people who have hard labor jobs but need a stimulant to do them like the farmers or laborers in other countries who use Coca or Kratom to get the work done? Nothing necessarily wrong with what they are doing, it's a personal thing about how you yourself feel.

    Sometimes you can also start a job using substances and then stop using them.

    I think you frame things as if they aren't just your opinions but are 100% facts which isn't necessarily true.
    Last edited by Mycophile; 29-06-2018 at 23:45.
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    #6
    I'm putting my post from my thread in here cause it seems related and maybe someone will respond cause no one else has. I'm even paranoid about mentioning the type of job it is in case somehow it comes back to me, but I probably will say what it is I'm doing later cause that's a bit TOO paranoid haha:


    I'm trying to get good at a new stressful career that involves public speaking and obviously I don't want to say where or what I'm doing, and I have stage fright and anxiety.

    Two things work for me, but one much better than the other.

    I take Klonopin prescribed daily and have for so long there's not even a thought of trying to do something like this job without it, and it's doctor approved so I feel all good using it and I'm used to it, so I don't feel conflicted about it.

    But then there's Kratom, which works WAY better for my anxiety.

    So I'm still just learning to do this job, and had my first practice session recently and used both Kratom and Klonopin.

    Of course I had ZERO anxiety...and that's the problem:

    I don't want to, and never will use Kratom more than 3-4 days a week as I don't want to get addicted...(and yeah I know...Klonopin is worse and I'm addicted to that...so lets skip that part.)


    I knew if I took it the first time doing this job it would just seem too easy and i don't want to feel like I need Kratom to do the job, but now that I still haven't worked this job without being on Kratom, I feel like there's an "asterisk" next to my facing my anxiety, like I didn't REALLY face it cause I took the Kratom, and I know I'm not gonna feel like I really faced it till I go in while NOT on it.

    (lets forget the fact that the job would consider it socially unacceptable for ZERO good reason and I could get in trouble...)

    So you can see my diilemna:


    I feel like at some point soon I have to FORCE myself to go work this job while not on Kratom, but only on my Klonopin, and while I know I can do it, it will be harder.

    There's no "answer" to this, I'm just voicing this and seeing what people think, cause the only answers are 1) just take Kratom every time I work which I think is a bad idea 2) go in and face the fear while NOT being on it, and I feel like I need to do as much of #2 as possible so I don't become psychologically dependent on Kratom and know I have what it takes to face the job anxiety without it.

    So what would you do?

    How would you feel in this situation?

    Anyone ever have a stressful job or life situation that they first did while on a drug that made it a breeze and killed the anxiety, then suddenly realized they hadn't REALLY faced that anxiety yet, and had to make themselves go in cold without it before they could feel secure in themselves and look in the mirror knowing they'd truly faced the anxiety??






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    #7
    Bluelighter yompf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycophile View Post
    I can understand why you feel that way, but I think you should just realize that's your opinion and not a fact.

    Sure, it has its problems, and I think psychologically it can be an issue cause I myself do wonder with my meds if I can do my work without them, but many people are able to do jobs they wouldn't otherwise by using certain substances and it just becomes a fact of their lives and they might actually be better off for it if the other alternative is not being able to do the job at all but remain substance free.

    What about people who have hard labor jobs but need a stimulant to do them like the farmers or laborers in other countries who use Coca or Kratom to get the work done? Nothing necessarily wrong with what they are doing, it's a personal thing about how you yourself feel.

    Sometimes you can also start a job using substances and then stop using them.

    I think you frame things as if they aren't just your opinions but are 100% facts which isn't necessarily true.
    I thought it was a fact that drugs screw your brain up . You know ? things are typically WORSE after because of depletion of dopamine or whatever, and your brain needs time to heal ,unmolested, and then things get better. Honestly you said it yourself in your other post that you gave yourself brain damage . Well I damaged my brain too. Drugs / alcohol
    Ya know I am in the mindset that ,sometimes in life we need drugs to help us through a painful experience. Sometimes they are the only thing . Sure it's personal how to feel about it.
    So I'm not gonna tell the OP to take up drugs to manage his/hers anxiety . I know you weren't suggesting it either , I'm just saying , I would not because the consequences of drug use exist.
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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by yompf View Post
    I thought it was a fact that drugs screw your brain up . You know ? things are typically WORSE after because of depletion of dopamine or whatever, and your brain needs time to heal ,unmolested, and then things get better. Honestly you said it yourself in your other post that you gave yourself brain damage . Well I damaged my brain too. Drugs / alcohol
    Ya know I am in the mindset that ,sometimes in life we need drugs to help us through a painful experience. Sometimes they are the only thing . Sure it's personal how to feel about it.
    So I'm not gonna tell the OP to take up drugs to manage his/hers anxiety . I know you weren't suggesting it either , I'm just saying , I would not because the consequences of drug use exist.
    When did I ever say I gave myself brain damage?

    I'm very curious as to where you think I said that, so could you point me towards what I said?

    I never once said I gave myself brain damage though, even if you think that's what I said.

    What I did say is I don't like psychologically relying on things like Klonopin/Kratom, but I never did myself brain damage that I'm aware of.

    Of course there is no question that drugs like Klonopin, alcohol etc can mess with things like GABA, kill brain cells etc (Klonopin doesn't kill brain cells as far as I know but alcohol does), mess with levels of serotonin and dopamine etc.

    But that is not the same thing as saying "I've done extensive damage to my brain with years of using Klonopin".

    I cannot prove or disprove that, nor can any doctor.

    I think only a brain scan could prove it, and I would assume my different drug use has most definitely effected my brain in certain negative ways, maybe some positive ones, but I do NOT think I have extensive brain damage from Klonopin lol.

    Also, I have done something called Neurofeedback, 40 sessions of it, and they hook your brain up to electrodes and give you different signals to alter brain waves and it's had a GREAT effect on lowering my anxiety, and has definitely healed parts of my brain.

    There are many studies that show neurofeedback actually can heal certain types of brain damage and is good for people with traumatic brain injuries, which I do not have, but it can help with that.

    So I'm sure I've done damage with different drugs and also healed some of it with Neurofeedback, but I don't think I'm gonna some day have alzheimers or serious memory loss from Klonopin.

    Probably the most Iv'e messed with my brain is with drinking which we all know does fuck up brain cells.

    Anyways, we all take our risks.

    I'm surprised about the bolded comment though since didnt you say you think you DON'T want to be dependent on anything and that drugs eventually hurt you when you use them to function??

    I think we probably agree on a lot though in that they can hurt and they can help.

    For me, if not for my Klonopin I don't think I could have faced many of the problems I have faced or come so far in life.

    The anxiety was fucking me up too much when I wasn't on it, and it's helped me a lot.
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    ^ yes sorry you didn't say "brain damage" I was just coming back to edit that but you replied already. But you did say , your brain doesn't know up from down ,because of drugs , and you said you fucked your brain up with drugs . You didn't actually say "brain damage" I was confusing the wording with another thread.
    And I myself am brain damaged so there you go!
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by yompf View Post
    ^ yes sorry you didn't say "brain damage" I was just coming back to edit that but you replied already. But you did say , your brain doesn't know up from down ,because of drugs , and you said you fucked your brain up with drugs . You didn't actually say "brain damage" I was confusing the wording with another thread.
    And I myself am brain damaged so there you go!
    I doubt you are brain damaged lol.

    I meant that I made my anxiety worse with drugs, but I don't think Klonopin has made my anxiety worse or that it has caused me chronic damage.
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    #11
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    Lots of people stay on the same benzodiazepine dosage for decades.
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Ho-Chi-Minh View Post
    Lots of people stay on the same benzodiazepine dosage for decades.
    Thanks yeah I think I'm ok.

    But what about feeling like I don't want to rely on Kratom for my new job but my feeling that since I've already used it the first time that I think I need to prove to myself I can work without it and deal with the anxiety??

    (ok, I'll admit it's a teaching program where I do weekly sessions to prove I can teach, I just get paranoid someone will somehow find out who I am from my program and know I'm doing Kratom while teaching, but that's paranoid cause no one knows who I am or can link me to this site).

    I'm having my 2nd practice teaching session tomorrow, and I know I'll use Kratom again, not only cause it makes the anxiety easier to deal with than just Klonopin, but cause it gives me energy and my sleep schedule is fucked so I feel shitty waking up for it and it helps with that too (I'll correct that to make it easier).

    I don't want to feel like I need Kratom to work, I mean I'm already on Klonopin everytime anyway, so I just have to FORCE myself to start teaching while not on Kratom to get used to it right??

    Otherwise I just feel like I'm not confronting my anxiety, but I already took Kratom the first (and will have taken it the 2nd time tomorrow) teaching session, so the stage feels set for me to have to remind myself next week not to take it, and get more nervous in anticipation of knowing that i'll simply have more nerves to deal with you know??

    Like, as an anxious person it TOTALLY killed the anxiety last week in a way that Klonopin alone can't do, but now I feel like "yeah, but can I teach without it? Can I face my anxiety without Kratom?"

    Cause this is just a teaching program for school that I have to pass to get a job.

    I know I'll do well and get my certificate (actually I already have one, it's a long story why I'm repeating the program so I won't go into it), but then if they hire me, which I think they will, I literally CAN'T take Kratom most times I teach since I don't want to become addicted and usually only take it 3-4 days a week max.

    Not to mention I have a mentor-teaching watching me, and he's said how comfortable I looked, and I don't want to look less comfortable in the future and have him wonder why I was more comfortable in past sessions, but what else can I do right?

    I mean 1) I might not look more uncomfortable to him even if I am internally 2) if he does notice it, so what right? I doubt he'd say anything, and if he did I could just admit that at times I get nervous and I don't know why.

    So in this situation, don't you feel all I can do is just make myself bite the bullet soon, and go in to one of my practice teaching sessions while not on Kratom and get used to it??

    It's the only honorable solution since I don't want to be psychologically dependent on it right?
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    #13
    Well, I'm still waiting for a response...
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    #14
    Ok, so no one else has ever felt like they've used an anxiety relieving substance at work and relate to the feeling that they want to prove to themselves they can face certain anxieties at work and in life without using those substances?
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    #15
    This is exactly how i feel physically Ill from my anxiety. I can deal with most of the symptoms but I can't deal with feeling nauseous and wver since I heard I was gonna get thr job Iv been feeling sick ti my stomach. Im thinking its just my anxiety but I'm terrified if throwing up in public lol. I did talk to my doctor cause i was at the end of my rope and that's why i git the buspar. It seems to help a little with the physical symptoms like rapid heart rate but Iv been on it for about 6 or 7 weeks and it seems like its less affective. My dr wont give me any benzo to take daily either
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    #16
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    Mycophile,

    Please feel free to create your own thread, as you ultimately did. Thanks.

    powerpunk,

    Was there some booze or benzo abuse in your past? Generally, if so, doctors aren't going to give previous GABAergic addicts a benzo until they have a few years or more clean. They know it hurts, but this is their job, and the only sure way they can prevent having a direct role to play in some sort of (possible, understood) scenario during which you binge and something terrible and irreversible happens. Doctors can be sued for this kind of unfortunate happening, and their defense is rendered very weak if the affected individual has a clear log on their file about a GABAergic addiction.

    Have you been tested for adequate levels of vitamins?

    Why don't you ask your doctor if you're allowed, in moderation, to take some of the herbs that probably have GABAergic activity? There are many: lavender, skullcap, valerian, passionflower, chamomile, and more...

    Also, if you're a coffee drinker, maybe try switching it out for green tea. Green tea is much more calming.

    Tulsi tea has proven to be amazingly medicinal. It's an adaptogen. Hindus revere it as a prominent goddess. It is said to help heal the adrenal gland, and restore the balance of various hormones/modulators/transmitters in the nervous system.

    Good Luck!
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    #17
    Oh my lord. The other threads that I felt compelled to post on excited me, but this one is draining. I know I'm a month late, but here I go.

    Look, I don't claim to be a master of anxiety. I can't, because I take clonazapam, gabapentin, and kratom for anxiety.
    But to clarify, I take these medications for SLEEP anxiety / insomnia.
    For almost a decade, I had horrible general and social anxiety. A year and a half ago, my daughter was born. And in the months that followed, my general and social anxiety almost completely disappeared. The reason was because my dad was not around for me when I was a kid, so since middle school I have had a great desire to be a dad that can always be there for his kid(s). Since then I have also had a massive fear of "oh my God, what if I suck at being a dad? I want to be a great dad so badly. I know it will be hard though."
    Let me also say this -- that whole dad thing was not the center of my anxiety. But now my daughter is over a year old, and I feel so much more confident and so much less anxious because I took a big leap that I wasn't sure I could make. And when I made that leap, like I said, my anxiety started to be replaced with confidence, because I realized that my fears about not being a great dad were just that, fears. The reality is that I'm a pretty great dad, and I'm so proud to say that. And there's solid evidence of this, because my daughter is a freaking toddler genius. And she's so beautiful and always happy. She's so incredibly happy, and it's because of me and her mom.

    Like I said, I don't claim to be an expert on anxiety. But how I see it is that anxiety is fear, and the opposite of fear is confidence. So I have a few messages to different posters.

    To the OP, I know how you feel. I've been there. I was jobless for a long time and had massive anxiety about rejoining the workforce. My mom was tired of me sitting around the house all depressed, so she offered me a job: to be a server at her restaurant. I almost laughed. Me, the anxiety crippled criminal who had no idea how to talk to humans, being a server? Ha! But I was tired of being depressed. I was tired of doing nothing. So I had to take a leap of faith, faith in myself.
    I promise you, despite your fears, you are fully qualified to take on that job. You may have already taken it or not by now, but I'm going to post as if I was posting a month ago -- I want you to take it, because I feel confident that within a few weeks of working there, you will feel confident too. Look, we're all afraid of the unknown. But if we don't take that leap, we will feel even more defeated, and our anxieties will have won over us. Do you want to be a slave to your anxiety? Take medications if you feel its necessary. But whether or not you take them, everything will work out at the job. I have confidence in that. I believe in that. I believe that you can make that leap of confidence. All you have to do is, well, leap. I don't even know you. But the reason that I know that you can make that leap is because the only thing that is holding you back is fear. And fear absolutely sucks. It's one of the worst, most crippling feelings in the world. So I understand why you feel this way. Like I said, I've been there. But you know what you need to do. That's part of why you're so afraid. I'm speaking from experience. So do what you have to do and be brave. Be brave so that you don't have to be controlled by fear, and instead you can be free to be yourself. Break out of this prison and emerge as the capable human being that you are. I've never met a human who didn't have a lick of bravery in him. It's in there, in that prison with you, and it's the only way that you're going to get out of it. So you have two options. You can hide in your cage and be a slave to your fears. Or you can embrace your bravery and take that leap! Which sounds like a better option to you?


    Mycophile, hey buddy. Look, I've been taking clonazapam and kratom for years, through three different jobs. This is how I feel about it.
    Jobs suck. I half-agree with yompf's post at the top of the thread. I don't think that this is how things are supposed to be. So many people in the workforce are miserable.
    When I worked at a pizza place as a manager, there were times when I was on clonazapam and kratom and occasionally weed, and there were a few times when I was on MDMA or oxycodone when I wasn't working a manager shift but was working a driver or kitchen shift instead. I was trained to work all of the shifts. And sometimes, I was on none of those drugs. And I didn't have a single problem not having clonazapam and kratom. In fact, when I didn't have kratom to entertain and distract me, I was way more productive. I was more assertive -- more aware. My head was less clouded. Klonopin is not as clouding as kratom in my opinion. I don't feel like klonopin has made any drastic changes to who I am. But kratom does. And, unlike you, I was and still am addicted to kratom. I took it multiple times every day. But sometimes I would run out and wouldn't have enough money to get more. We talked about kratom withdrawal in the other thread, and I don't remember exactly what I said about my WD experiences, but they weren't world-ending. For the most part I was just slightly irritable, and it was a little hard to sleep at night. But that was it! And like I said, I was also less distracted, and in many ways not having kratom for a day or two before the WD hit made me a much better employee. There was one month when I had no kratom, and I was so bored because of my lack of Kratom that I was undoubtedly the most productive employee that month, once the very brief WD ended. And you, you're NOT addicted to Kratom, so there's even more hope for you.

    Even if you decide to start taking it daily to help you with work and you get addicted, oh my GOD are there worse drugs to be addicted to. I used to be horribly addicted to xanax and oxycodone. I'm not trying to undermine the WD effects of kratom, but you are totally capable of being an excellent employee even without your meds. Klonopin and Kratom make life fun and easy, but when you take kratom out of your equation, it doesn't have to make life harder. That's up to you. You get to decide whether the absence of these drugs make you miserable or not. Because the fact is that, I guess, if you were on klonopin and kratom right now and you were at work, you would do a hella great job. And if you weren't on klonopin and kratom right now but you were at work, you would still do a great job. But, disregarding the klonopin for s moment, if you had stopped using kratom a week ago and you were at work, you would do a MAGNIFICENT job.
    These drugs, specifically these two drugs, are designed to make life EASIER for people like you and me. But the fact is, jobs, work, being a father, it's not easy.
    And the fact is that these drugs dramatically alter our perspectives of ourselves, the people around us, and the entire world.
    And it's totally fine to use these drugs to give ourselves a little boost sometimes, especially when something tragic has happened and we need a little boost.

    I think that people that take drugs think that the drugs make them normal. I'm speaking mostly of anxiolytic drugs. But these drugs don't make you normal.
    In fact, they do the opposite. I know from experience that when I take drugs like this, as a musician and game developer, my creations are not as great as they could be if I were sober. I used to think that these drugs made me a more functional person, but they don't. They take away part of our humanity.
    I don't plan on being on these drugs forever, at least not kratom, despite my love for it. It takes away from who I am. Klonopin is kind of important because it slows the onset of dementia for me. But still, it takes away from who I am.
    You say that your new jobs involves public speaking. I can tell you from experience that if you go up there on kratom you will do a fine job.
    But if you stopped taking kratom for awhile, let the WD and cravings pass, I firmly believe that you would do MORE than a fine job.
    Here's a relevant example: I recently watched a stand-up video where a comedian was touring in Canada, and I guess weed is legal in Canada, cause he said that he had been smoking since he landed. His main jokes were about weed commercials, and they were funny. And it was funny that he was high while he was talking about them.
    But he wasn't himself. He was less coherent. He was less PRESENT. The full value of his comedy was not present.
    I know that kratom is a different drug than weed, but for some people they have the same basic effect: they make life more bearable. But it comes at a cost.
    I feel like I'm repeating myself at this point. I don't know how to get you to trust me when I say this, but I believe that if you kicked kratom, you'd end up becoming a better public speaker than if you were on kratom. You might be more nervous, but you got this job for a reason, and that reason wasn't because you were on kratom. Like, I got this nice paying catering manager joba while ago after the pizza job. And right before my interview with the regional manager and the owner of the company, I popped so benzos. I don't remember if they were klonopins or xanax's. But I didn't get hired because I was on benzos. The benzos just helped me calm down. I would've been a LOT more nervous during that interview if I hadn't popped those pills. Even with the pills, I had pretty bad anxiety, and by the end of the interview I was shaking. Take a wild guess at why the benzos calmed me down so much. Take a wild guess at why I would've been more nervous if I hadn't taken those pills, and why I was shaking by the end of the interview. It's pretty obvious. It was because I was addicted to benzos. I was dependent on them. They were like a shield, and I felt like I couldn't survive without them. That's not true
    To continue my story, I wasn't hired because of the benzos. I was hired because of the answers that I gave to the manager and owner. Those thoughts came from my brain. The only reason that I felt like I needed to pop those pills that day was not because I was about to have a really important interview. It was because I was addicted to benzos, because I felt that benzos made my life easier. But obviously they didn't, because I can assure you that if I hadn't been addicted to benzos and popped them before my interview, the result would have still been the same. I would have given the same answers, and at the interview I probably would have been shaking less than I had been shaking while on benzos. Because benzos and kratom are like armor. They make us feel protected, but they also make us feel like without them, we wouldn't be safe. I've said this in other threads that you were probably in, but benzos cause more anxiety than they cure.
    Here's one more story. It's a pretty well-known one.
    There is a legendary saxophone player names John Coltrane who created some fantastic music. For a lot of his career, he was addicted to acid. And I won't deny that acid can give people a great burst of creative energy. The music that he made while he was on acid was so fantastic. But at some point at his career, one of his supervisors told him that he needed to quit taking acid, most likely cause it didn't reflect well on the company. And for a while, Coltrane's music suffered without his acid. Like, very noticeably, his music just sounded bland and boring compared to when he was taking acid. I don't know if acid has a physical withdrawal, but I know from personal experience that it has a dependency withdrawal. Coltrane experienced that to a much higher extent than I ever did. But after a long while, the withdrawal faded. All the sudden, Coltrane's music was magical again. And this time it wasn't because he was on acid. This time it was because he was himself. His music sounded different than when he was on acid, and tbh it took Coltrane a while to get back to that level that he was at when he was on acid, because he spent such a large chunk of his life addicted to it. But eventually, because he no longer had acid or acid WD limiting his abilities, his music eventually surpassed how it sounded when he was on acid.
    The same goes for us and kratom. Kratom makes life wonderful. It makes jobs easier. It makes us good at our jobs.
    But if we stopped taking kratom, after that WD phase, and after that phase where we crave it and miss it and think that it was the best thing that ever happened to us and that we need it back in our life, if we can get past all of that, then we will be better people, better employees, better public speakers, better musicians than if we were still limited by the effects of kratom.
    The point is, you would be fine without these specific medications. We've been in several of the same threads. You are an incredibly intelligent and capable person. You were the first and only person to welcome me to bluelight. That was such a kind gesture. And I know because I too am an intelligent person that you are not kind, intelligent, and capable because of kratom. Kratom may seem to enhance those things, but those qualities come from within you. There are tons of people that take kratom, and not half of them are as kind, intelligent, or capable as you are on kratom. That is how I know that it's not the kratom. It's you.
    I'm gonna say the same thing that I said to the OP: you are fully capable of making that leap. I can tell you from experience that working without those medications is not usually fun, simply because most jobs are not fun. Clonazapam and specifically kratom make jobs way more fun. And drugs like these make us more confident. The only thing stopping you from being comfortable working without these medications is confidence. That is the only thing. There is nothing about you that makes you incapable of excelling at your new job other than your confidence. I believe in you. You are my first and only friend here on bluelight. That's why I can't stop typing. I know that you'd be fine with or without kratom, and I know that you'd be better without it. But whatever you decide, I know that if you choose to belief in yourself, if you can have even have half as much faith as I do that you will be okay, then you'll be better than okay. I don't know your real name, but I know it's not Metrigyna speciosa. That's not who you are. It's just something that we take that changes us into someone else, someone less human. So come on, friend. Look, there's a leap that I need to take too. I need to start taking some initiative in my life, or else I'm going to go nowhere anytime soon. Will you take this leap with me? We both deserve to be confident people, with or without kratom. That's the leap that I'm talking about. Not quitting kratom necessarily, but we have all of the tools inside us to be confident people and to stop being afraid. I'm so tired of being afraid. I don't want to be afraid anymore. I want to be a confident person again, so that is who I'm going to become. I'm taking the leap with or without you, but I'll wait on the other side for you to make the leap too. I'm not going anywhere. You may not know it, but you've really helped me, simply by messaging me and replying to my thread posts with intelligent banter. It's complicated. But my point is, you did me a huge favor, so I'm going to make that leap and wait for you on the other side. I'll wait as long as I have to. But I hope to see you soon.
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by encyklonopin View Post
    Oh my lord. The other threads that I felt compelled to post on excited me, but this one is draining. I know I'm a month late, but here I go.

    Look, I don't claim to be a master of anxiety. I can't, because I take clonazapam, gabapentin, and kratom for anxiety.
    But to clarify, I take these medications for SLEEP anxiety / insomnia.
    For almost a decade, I had horrible general and social anxiety. A year and a half ago, my daughter was born. And in the months that followed, my general and social anxiety almost completely disappeared. The reason was because my dad was not around for me when I was a kid, so since middle school I have had a great desire to be a dad that can always be there for his kid(s). Since then I have also had a massive fear of "oh my God, what if I suck at being a dad? I want to be a great dad so badly. I know it will be hard though."
    Let me also say this -- that whole dad thing was not the center of my anxiety. But now my daughter is over a year old, and I feel so much more confident and so much less anxious because I took a big leap that I wasn't sure I could make. And when I made that leap, like I said, my anxiety started to be replaced with confidence, because I realized that my fears about not being a great dad were just that, fears. The reality is that I'm a pretty great dad, and I'm so proud to say that. And there's solid evidence of this, because my daughter is a freaking toddler genius. And she's so beautiful and always happy. She's so incredibly happy, and it's because of me and her mom.

    Like I said, I don't claim to be an expert on anxiety. But how I see it is that anxiety is fear, and the opposite of fear is confidence. So I have a few messages to different posters.

    To the OP, I know how you feel. I've been there. I was jobless for a long time and had massive anxiety about rejoining the workforce. My mom was tired of me sitting around the house all depressed, so she offered me a job: to be a server at her restaurant. I almost laughed. Me, the anxiety crippled criminal who had no idea how to talk to humans, being a server? Ha! But I was tired of being depressed. I was tired of doing nothing. So I had to take a leap of faith, faith in myself.
    I promise you, despite your fears, you are fully qualified to take on that job. You may have already taken it or not by now, but I'm going to post as if I was posting a month ago -- I want you to take it, because I feel confident that within a few weeks of working there, you will feel confident too. Look, we're all afraid of the unknown. But if we don't take that leap, we will feel even more defeated, and our anxieties will have won over us. Do you want to be a slave to your anxiety? Take medications if you feel its necessary. But whether or not you take them, everything will work out at the job. I have confidence in that. I believe in that. I believe that you can make that leap of confidence. All you have to do is, well, leap. I don't even know you. But the reason that I know that you can make that leap is because the only thing that is holding you back is fear. And fear absolutely sucks. It's one of the worst, most crippling feelings in the world. So I understand why you feel this way. Like I said, I've been there. But you know what you need to do. That's part of why you're so afraid. I'm speaking from experience. So do what you have to do and be brave. Be brave so that you don't have to be controlled by fear, and instead you can be free to be yourself. Break out of this prison and emerge as the capable human being that you are. I've never met a human who didn't have a lick of bravery in him. It's in there, in that prison with you, and it's the only way that you're going to get out of it. So you have two options. You can hide in your cage and be a slave to your fears. Or you can embrace your bravery and take that leap! Which sounds like a better option to you?


    Mycophile, hey buddy. Look, I've been taking clonazapam and kratom for years, through three different jobs. This is how I feel about it.
    Jobs suck. I half-agree with yompf's post at the top of the thread. I don't think that this is how things are supposed to be. So many people in the workforce are miserable.
    When I worked at a pizza place as a manager, there were times when I was on clonazapam and kratom and occasionally weed, and there were a few times when I was on MDMA or oxycodone when I wasn't working a manager shift but was working a driver or kitchen shift instead. I was trained to work all of the shifts. And sometimes, I was on none of those drugs. And I didn't have a single problem not having clonazapam and kratom. In fact, when I didn't have kratom to entertain and distract me, I was way more productive. I was more assertive -- more aware. My head was less clouded. Klonopin is not as clouding as kratom in my opinion. I don't feel like klonopin has made any drastic changes to who I am. But kratom does. And, unlike you, I was and still am addicted to kratom. I took it multiple times every day. But sometimes I would run out and wouldn't have enough money to get more. We talked about kratom withdrawal in the other thread, and I don't remember exactly what I said about my WD experiences, but they weren't world-ending. For the most part I was just slightly irritable, and it was a little hard to sleep at night. But that was it! And like I said, I was also less distracted, and in many ways not having kratom for a day or two before the WD hit made me a much better employee. There was one month when I had no kratom, and I was so bored because of my lack of Kratom that I was undoubtedly the most productive employee that month, once the very brief WD ended. And you, you're NOT addicted to Kratom, so there's even more hope for you.

    Even if you decide to start taking it daily to help you with work and you get addicted, oh my GOD are there worse drugs to be addicted to. I used to be horribly addicted to xanax and oxycodone. I'm not trying to undermine the WD effects of kratom, but you are totally capable of being an excellent employee even without your meds. Klonopin and Kratom make life fun and easy, but when you take kratom out of your equation, it doesn't have to make life harder. That's up to you. You get to decide whether the absence of these drugs make you miserable or not. Because the fact is that, I guess, if you were on klonopin and kratom right now and you were at work, you would do a hella great job. And if you weren't on klonopin and kratom right now but you were at work, you would still do a great job. But, disregarding the klonopin for s moment, if you had stopped using kratom a week ago and you were at work, you would do a MAGNIFICENT job.
    These drugs, specifically these two drugs, are designed to make life EASIER for people like you and me. But the fact is, jobs, work, being a father, it's not easy.
    And the fact is that these drugs dramatically alter our perspectives of ourselves, the people around us, and the entire world.
    And it's totally fine to use these drugs to give ourselves a little boost sometimes, especially when something tragic has happened and we need a little boost.

    I think that people that take drugs think that the drugs make them normal. I'm speaking mostly of anxiolytic drugs. But these drugs don't make you normal.
    In fact, they do the opposite. I know from experience that when I take drugs like this, as a musician and game developer, my creations are not as great as they could be if I were sober. I used to think that these drugs made me a more functional person, but they don't. They take away part of our humanity.
    I don't plan on being on these drugs forever, at least not kratom, despite my love for it. It takes away from who I am. Klonopin is kind of important because it slows the onset of dementia for me. But still, it takes away from who I am.
    You say that your new jobs involves public speaking. I can tell you from experience that if you go up there on kratom you will do a fine job.
    But if you stopped taking kratom for awhile, let the WD and cravings pass, I firmly believe that you would do MORE than a fine job.
    Here's a relevant example: I recently watched a stand-up video where a comedian was touring in Canada, and I guess weed is legal in Canada, cause he said that he had been smoking since he landed. His main jokes were about weed commercials, and they were funny. And it was funny that he was high while he was talking about them.
    But he wasn't himself. He was less coherent. He was less PRESENT. The full value of his comedy was not present.
    I know that kratom is a different drug than weed, but for some people they have the same basic effect: they make life more bearable. But it comes at a cost.
    I feel like I'm repeating myself at this point. I don't know how to get you to trust me when I say this, but I believe that if you kicked kratom, you'd end up becoming a better public speaker than if you were on kratom. You might be more nervous, but you got this job for a reason, and that reason wasn't because you were on kratom. Like, I got this nice paying catering manager joba while ago after the pizza job. And right before my interview with the regional manager and the owner of the company, I popped so benzos. I don't remember if they were klonopins or xanax's. But I didn't get hired because I was on benzos. The benzos just helped me calm down. I would've been a LOT more nervous during that interview if I hadn't popped those pills. Even with the pills, I had pretty bad anxiety, and by the end of the interview I was shaking. Take a wild guess at why the benzos calmed me down so much. Take a wild guess at why I would've been more nervous if I hadn't taken those pills, and why I was shaking by the end of the interview. It's pretty obvious. It was because I was addicted to benzos. I was dependent on them. They were like a shield, and I felt like I couldn't survive without them. That's not true
    To continue my story, I wasn't hired because of the benzos. I was hired because of the answers that I gave to the manager and owner. Those thoughts came from my brain. The only reason that I felt like I needed to pop those pills that day was not because I was about to have a really important interview. It was because I was addicted to benzos, because I felt that benzos made my life easier. But obviously they didn't, because I can assure you that if I hadn't been addicted to benzos and popped them before my interview, the result would have still been the same. I would have given the same answers, and at the interview I probably would have been shaking less than I had been shaking while on benzos. Because benzos and kratom are like armor. They make us feel protected, but they also make us feel like without them, we wouldn't be safe. I've said this in other threads that you were probably in, but benzos cause more anxiety than they cure.
    Here's one more story. It's a pretty well-known one.
    There is a legendary saxophone player names John Coltrane who created some fantastic music. For a lot of his career, he was addicted to acid. And I won't deny that acid can give people a great burst of creative energy. The music that he made while he was on acid was so fantastic. But at some point at his career, one of his supervisors told him that he needed to quit taking acid, most likely cause it didn't reflect well on the company. And for a while, Coltrane's music suffered without his acid. Like, very noticeably, his music just sounded bland and boring compared to when he was taking acid. I don't know if acid has a physical withdrawal, but I know from personal experience that it has a dependency withdrawal. Coltrane experienced that to a much higher extent than I ever did. But after a long while, the withdrawal faded. All the sudden, Coltrane's music was magical again. And this time it wasn't because he was on acid. This time it was because he was himself. His music sounded different than when he was on acid, and tbh it took Coltrane a while to get back to that level that he was at when he was on acid, because he spent such a large chunk of his life addicted to it. But eventually, because he no longer had acid or acid WD limiting his abilities, his music eventually surpassed how it sounded when he was on acid.
    The same goes for us and kratom. Kratom makes life wonderful. It makes jobs easier. It makes us good at our jobs.
    But if we stopped taking kratom, after that WD phase, and after that phase where we crave it and miss it and think that it was the best thing that ever happened to us and that we need it back in our life, if we can get past all of that, then we will be better people, better employees, better public speakers, better musicians than if we were still limited by the effects of kratom.
    The point is, you would be fine without these specific medications. We've been in several of the same threads. You are an incredibly intelligent and capable person. You were the first and only person to welcome me to bluelight. That was such a kind gesture. And I know because I too am an intelligent person that you are not kind, intelligent, and capable because of kratom. Kratom may seem to enhance those things, but those qualities come from within you. There are tons of people that take kratom, and not half of them are as kind, intelligent, or capable as you are on kratom. That is how I know that it's not the kratom. It's you.
    I'm gonna say the same thing that I said to the OP: you are fully capable of making that leap. I can tell you from experience that working without those medications is not usually fun, simply because most jobs are not fun. Clonazapam and specifically kratom make jobs way more fun. And drugs like these make us more confident. The only thing stopping you from being comfortable working without these medications is confidence. That is the only thing. There is nothing about you that makes you incapable of excelling at your new job other than your confidence. I believe in you. You are my first and only friend here on bluelight. That's why I can't stop typing. I know that you'd be fine with or without kratom, and I know that you'd be better without it. But whatever you decide, I know that if you choose to belief in yourself, if you can have even have half as much faith as I do that you will be okay, then you'll be better than okay. I don't know your real name, but I know it's not Metrigyna speciosa. That's not who you are. It's just something that we take that changes us into someone else, someone less human. So come on, friend. Look, there's a leap that I need to take too. I need to start taking some initiative in my life, or else I'm going to go nowhere anytime soon. Will you take this leap with me? We both deserve to be confident people, with or without kratom. That's the leap that I'm talking about. Not quitting kratom necessarily, but we have all of the tools inside us to be confident people and to stop being afraid. I'm so tired of being afraid. I don't want to be afraid anymore. I want to be a confident person again, so that is who I'm going to become. I'm taking the leap with or without you, but I'll wait on the other side for you to make the leap too. I'm not going anywhere. You may not know it, but you've really helped me, simply by messaging me and replying to my thread posts with intelligent banter. It's complicated. But my point is, you did me a huge favor, so I'm going to make that leap and wait for you on the other side. I'll wait as long as I have to. But I hope to see you soon.

    Man, this is another time I really wanted to read what you wrote but it's just too much and too many sentences too close together.

    It hurts my eyes.

    People tell me all the time I'm too long winded and I have tried to cut down but I make spaces between my sentences at least, though some people think the way I format them is actually annoying because they say I make a new sentence for each thought, which maybe I shouldn't do. Please try editing your post and cutting it up and maybe even making it into a few shorter posts cause I just can't read it.
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    #19
    Well that sucks. I say in the post that the reason why I can't stop typing is because of you. Most of the post is dedicated just to you. I'll work on making more concise posts. In this case there was just so much in my heart that I wanted to share
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    #20
    Here's a concise summary: drugs don't make you who you are. Drugs change us. Without them, you would still be fine at your speaking job, maybe even better than if you were on klonopin and kratom. Just like John Coltrane with his acid addiction, and just like me when I was ar Donatos taking the same drugs that you are. There were times when I didn't have Kratom, and it actually made me more productive. I'm not saying you have to quit Kratom, but I know you'd do fine without it, and with or without it, I feel confident that you'd make a great speaker. I know it sounds cliche, but we just have to believe in ourselves and we'll do fine. My long post elaborates on this way more and (I hope) is more convincing, but that's the jist of it.
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    #21
    This thread just really got me riled up and super passionate, more so than any other thread I've seen so far.
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    #22
    Bluelighter mr peabody's Avatar
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    #23
    Quote Originally Posted by encyklonopin View Post
    Oh my lord. The other threads that I felt compelled to post on excited me, but this one is draining. I know I'm a month late, but here I go.

    Look, I don't claim to be a master of anxiety. I can't, because I take clonazapam, gabapentin, and kratom for anxiety.
    But to clarify, I take these medications for SLEEP anxiety / insomnia.
    For almost a decade, I had horrible general and social anxiety. A year and a half ago, my daughter was born. And in the months that followed, my general and social anxiety almost completely disappeared. The reason was because my dad was not around for me when I was a kid, so since middle school I have had a great desire to be a dad that can always be there for his kid(s). Since then I have also had a massive fear of "oh my God, what if I suck at being a dad? I want to be a great dad so badly. I know it will be hard though."
    Let me also say this -- that whole dad thing was not the center of my anxiety. But now my daughter is over a year old, and I feel so much more confident and so much less anxious because I took a big leap that I wasn't sure I could make. And when I made that leap, like I said, my anxiety started to be replaced with confidence, because I realized that my fears about not being a great dad were just that, fears. The reality is that I'm a pretty great dad, and I'm so proud to say that. And there's solid evidence of this, because my daughter is a freaking toddler genius. And she's so beautiful and always happy. She's so incredibly happy, and it's because of me and her mom.

    Like I said, I don't claim to be an expert on anxiety. But how I see it is that anxiety is fear, and the opposite of fear is confidence. So I have a few messages to different posters.

    To the OP, I know how you feel. I've been there. I was jobless for a long time and had massive anxiety about rejoining the workforce. My mom was tired of me sitting around the house all depressed, so she offered me a job: to be a server at her restaurant. I almost laughed. Me, the anxiety crippled criminal who had no idea how to talk to humans, being a server? Ha! But I was tired of being depressed. I was tired of doing nothing. So I had to take a leap of faith, faith in myself.
    I promise you, despite your fears, you are fully qualified to take on that job. You may have already taken it or not by now, but I'm going to post as if I was posting a month ago -- I want you to take it, because I feel confident that within a few weeks of working there, you will feel confident too. Look, we're all afraid of the unknown. But if we don't take that leap, we will feel even more defeated, and our anxieties will have won over us. Do you want to be a slave to your anxiety? Take medications if you feel its necessary. But whether or not you take them, everything will work out at the job. I have confidence in that. I believe in that. I believe that you can make that leap of confidence. All you have to do is, well, leap. I don't even know you. But the reason that I know that you can make that leap is because the only thing that is holding you back is fear. And fear absolutely sucks. It's one of the worst, most crippling feelings in the world. So I understand why you feel this way. Like I said, I've been there. But you know what you need to do. That's part of why you're so afraid. I'm speaking from experience. So do what you have to do and be brave. Be brave so that you don't have to be controlled by fear, and instead you can be free to be yourself. Break out of this prison and emerge as the capable human being that you are. I've never met a human who didn't have a lick of bravery in him. It's in there, in that prison with you, and it's the only way that you're going to get out of it. So you have two options. You can hide in your cage and be a slave to your fears. Or you can embrace your bravery and take that leap! Which sounds like a better option to you?


    Mycophile, hey buddy. Look, I've been taking clonazapam and kratom for years, through three different jobs. This is how I feel about it.
    Jobs suck. I half-agree with yompf's post at the top of the thread. I don't think that this is how things are supposed to be. So many people in the workforce are miserable.
    When I worked at a pizza place as a manager, there were times when I was on clonazapam and kratom and occasionally weed, and there were a few times when I was on MDMA or oxycodone when I wasn't working a manager shift but was working a driver or kitchen shift instead. I was trained to work all of the shifts. And sometimes, I was on none of those drugs. And I didn't have a single problem not having clonazapam and kratom. In fact, when I didn't have kratom to entertain and distract me, I was way more productive. I was more assertive -- more aware. My head was less clouded. Klonopin is not as clouding as kratom in my opinion. I don't feel like klonopin has made any drastic changes to who I am. But kratom does. And, unlike you, I was and still am addicted to kratom. I took it multiple times every day. But sometimes I would run out and wouldn't have enough money to get more. We talked about kratom withdrawal in the other thread, and I don't remember exactly what I said about my WD experiences, but they weren't world-ending. For the most part I was just slightly irritable, and it was a little hard to sleep at night. But that was it! And like I said, I was also less distracted, and in many ways not having kratom for a day or two before the WD hit made me a much better employee. There was one month when I had no kratom, and I was so bored because of my lack of Kratom that I was undoubtedly the most productive employee that month, once the very brief WD ended. And you, you're NOT addicted to Kratom, so there's even more hope for you.

    Even if you decide to start taking it daily to help you with work and you get addicted, oh my GOD are there worse drugs to be addicted to. I used to be horribly addicted to xanax and oxycodone. I'm not trying to undermine the WD effects of kratom, but you are totally capable of being an excellent employee even without your meds. Klonopin and Kratom make life fun and easy, but when you take kratom out of your equation, it doesn't have to make life harder. That's up to you. You get to decide whether the absence of these drugs make you miserable or not. Because the fact is that, I guess, if you were on klonopin and kratom right now and you were at work, you would do a hella great job. And if you weren't on klonopin and kratom right now but you were at work, you would still do a great job. But, disregarding the klonopin for s moment, if you had stopped using kratom a week ago and you were at work, you would do a MAGNIFICENT job.
    These drugs, specifically these two drugs, are designed to make life EASIER for people like you and me. But the fact is, jobs, work, being a father, it's not easy.
    And the fact is that these drugs dramatically alter our perspectives of ourselves, the people around us, and the entire world.
    And it's totally fine to use these drugs to give ourselves a little boost sometimes, especially when something tragic has happened and we need a little boost.

    I think that people that take drugs think that the drugs make them normal. I'm speaking mostly of anxiolytic drugs. But these drugs don't make you normal.
    In fact, they do the opposite. I know from experience that when I take drugs like this, as a musician and game developer, my creations are not as great as they could be if I were sober. I used to think that these drugs made me a more functional person, but they don't. They take away part of our humanity.
    I don't plan on being on these drugs forever, at least not kratom, despite my love for it. It takes away from who I am. Klonopin is kind of important because it slows the onset of dementia for me. But still, it takes away from who I am.
    You say that your new jobs involves public speaking. I can tell you from experience that if you go up there on kratom you will do a fine job.
    But if you stopped taking kratom for awhile, let the WD and cravings pass, I firmly believe that you would do MORE than a fine job.
    Here's a relevant example: I recently watched a stand-up video where a comedian was touring in Canada, and I guess weed is legal in Canada, cause he said that he had been smoking since he landed. His main jokes were about weed commercials, and they were funny. And it was funny that he was high while he was talking about them.
    But he wasn't himself. He was less coherent. He was less PRESENT. The full value of his comedy was not present.
    I know that kratom is a different drug than weed, but for some people they have the same basic effect: they make life more bearable. But it comes at a cost.
    I feel like I'm repeating myself at this point. I don't know how to get you to trust me when I say this, but I believe that if you kicked kratom, you'd end up becoming a better public speaker than if you were on kratom. You might be more nervous, but you got this job for a reason, and that reason wasn't because you were on kratom. Like, I got this nice paying catering manager joba while ago after the pizza job. And right before my interview with the regional manager and the owner of the company, I popped so benzos. I don't remember if they were klonopins or xanax's. But I didn't get hired because I was on benzos. The benzos just helped me calm down. I would've been a LOT more nervous during that interview if I hadn't popped those pills. Even with the pills, I had pretty bad anxiety, and by the end of the interview I was shaking. Take a wild guess at why the benzos calmed me down so much. Take a wild guess at why I would've been more nervous if I hadn't taken those pills, and why I was shaking by the end of the interview. It's pretty obvious. It was because I was addicted to benzos. I was dependent on them. They were like a shield, and I felt like I couldn't survive without them. That's not true
    To continue my story, I wasn't hired because of the benzos. I was hired because of the answers that I gave to the manager and owner. Those thoughts came from my brain. The only reason that I felt like I needed to pop those pills that day was not because I was about to have a really important interview. It was because I was addicted to benzos, because I felt that benzos made my life easier. But obviously they didn't, because I can assure you that if I hadn't been addicted to benzos and popped them before my interview, the result would have still been the same. I would have given the same answers, and at the interview I probably would have been shaking less than I had been shaking while on benzos. Because benzos and kratom are like armor. They make us feel protected, but they also make us feel like without them, we wouldn't be safe. I've said this in other threads that you were probably in, but benzos cause more anxiety than they cure.
    Here's one more story. It's a pretty well-known one.
    There is a legendary saxophone player names John Coltrane who created some fantastic music. For a lot of his career, he was addicted to acid. And I won't deny that acid can give people a great burst of creative energy. The music that he made while he was on acid was so fantastic. But at some point at his career, one of his supervisors told him that he needed to quit taking acid, most likely cause it didn't reflect well on the company. And for a while, Coltrane's music suffered without his acid. Like, very noticeably, his music just sounded bland and boring compared to when he was taking acid. I don't know if acid has a physical withdrawal, but I know from personal experience that it has a dependency withdrawal. Coltrane experienced that to a much higher extent than I ever did. But after a long while, the withdrawal faded. All the sudden, Coltrane's music was magical again. And this time it wasn't because he was on acid. This time it was because he was himself. His music sounded different than when he was on acid, and tbh it took Coltrane a while to get back to that level that he was at when he was on acid, because he spent such a large chunk of his life addicted to it. But eventually, because he no longer had acid or acid WD limiting his abilities, his music eventually surpassed how it sounded when he was on acid.
    The same goes for us and kratom. Kratom makes life wonderful. It makes jobs easier. It makes us good at our jobs.
    But if we stopped taking kratom, after that WD phase, and after that phase where we crave it and miss it and think that it was the best thing that ever happened to us and that we need it back in our life, if we can get past all of that, then we will be better people, better employees, better public speakers, better musicians than if we were still limited by the effects of kratom.
    The point is, you would be fine without these specific medications. We've been in several of the same threads. You are an incredibly intelligent and capable person. You were the first and only person to welcome me to bluelight. That was such a kind gesture. And I know because I too am an intelligent person that you are not kind, intelligent, and capable because of kratom. Kratom may seem to enhance those things, but those qualities come from within you. There are tons of people that take kratom, and not half of them are as kind, intelligent, or capable as you are on kratom. That is how I know that it's not the kratom. It's you.
    I'm gonna say the same thing that I said to the OP: you are fully capable of making that leap. I can tell you from experience that working without those medications is not usually fun, simply because most jobs are not fun. Clonazapam and specifically kratom make jobs way more fun. And drugs like these make us more confident. The only thing stopping you from being comfortable working without these medications is confidence. That is the only thing. There is nothing about you that makes you incapable of excelling at your new job other than your confidence. I believe in you. You are my first and only friend here on bluelight. That's why I can't stop typing. I know that you'd be fine with or without kratom, and I know that you'd be better without it. But whatever you decide, I know that if you choose to belief in yourself, if you can have even have half as much faith as I do that you will be okay, then you'll be better than okay. I don't know your real name, but I know it's not Metrigyna speciosa. That's not who you are. It's just something that we take that changes us into someone else, someone less human. So come on, friend. Look, there's a leap that I need to take too. I need to start taking some initiative in my life, or else I'm going to go nowhere anytime soon. Will you take this leap with me? We both deserve to be confident people, with or without kratom. That's the leap that I'm talking about. Not quitting kratom necessarily, but we have all of the tools inside us to be confident people and to stop being afraid. I'm so tired of being afraid. I don't want to be afraid anymore. I want to be a confident person again, so that is who I'm going to become. I'm taking the leap with or without you, but I'll wait on the other side for you to make the leap too. I'm not going anywhere. You may not know it, but you've really helped me, simply by messaging me and replying to my thread posts with intelligent banter. It's complicated. But my point is, you did me a huge favor, so I'm going to make that leap and wait for you on the other side. I'll wait as long as I have to. But I hope to see you soon.

    Hey man,

    I read this post. Thanks for saying the nice things you did. Well Kratom and Klonopin for me are totally different. Kratom makes life easier, and in fact, it is overall better than Klonopin for me in a number of ways, but regardless, I won't let myself be dependent so I only take it about 3 days a week, and yes, I know from experience I do fine without it.

    Klonopin on the other hand, I've been dependent to that for the better part of 15 years and I can't get off of it right now. See, Kratom I use mainly for recreation, though it DOES make things easier socially, but Klonopin I NEVER take recreationally, in fact, I CAN'T because it does not get me high, which is a good thing actually.

    I only take Klonopin because without it I get severe eye contact anxiety, like I can't really feel very comfortable talking with people because I won't be able to concentrate because I'll just keep thinking about how much contact I am or am not making with them, so I'll look in their eyes for a few seconds, then feel like I have to look away because I think I'm staring TOO much, then think I have to look back because I think it's weird not to be looking at them, and it just makes me super uncomfortable, and I'll be looking for ANY sign that the other person is noticing I look uncomfortable, which eventually they often do, then I get MORE uncomfortable.

    I tried to get off it for 9 months, and the anxiety came back and I couldn't deal with it, so for now I do need Klonopin.

    However, my plan is to cut down on it by quitting coffee which ironically, I have a problem with. I can't stop myself from drinking like 6-8 cups a day, and I KNOW that makes me need WAY more Klonopin than I need without it, and the last time I broke my caffeine addiction I was able to WAAAY cut down on my Klonopin.

    Very oddly though, the only way I have ever been able to quit coffee is by staving off the withdrawals with stronger stimulants like Dexadrine, Adderall and Vyvanse. Yeah, people have said I'm strange for using speed to quit coffee, but believe it or not, it has worked several times in the past few years and then I was able to NOT able to get addicted to the Dexadrine either, and was off both caffeine and amphetamines for a while while also taking less Klonopin and feeling GREAT with WAY more energy and WAY less anxiety, but since I didn't have a script, eventually I ran out of Dex and went back to drinking a pot of coffee a day, and then back to needing tons of Klonopin.

    Most people would not think caffeine can be a serious drug, but when you have an anxiety disorder like me, it can. So I just got an Adderall and Vyvanse script, and while I am a bit concerned with getting dependent on that, cause that's worse than caffeine, I don't think I will, and so my plan is in about a week to use it to quit coffee again and then barely use any drugs except like Kratom only about 3 days a week, and as little Klonopin, caffeine and Amphetamines as possible.

    If I can do it, I know I'll be WAAY better.

    I am applying for teaching jobs now, and I know I'll be better at them if not drinking tons of coffee or taking amphetamines and keeping a good sleep schedule, so that's my plan.

    I just hope I can get a good job, and it makes me nervous as fuck so I will undoubtedly need SOME Klonopin at first, but I should eventually be able to pull it off.
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  24. Collapse Details
     
    #24
    Totally agree with you, bro! It's not natural for us to be slaves on a boat called a hated job. We're born to be free and to be involved into an activity we like the most. But its a double-edged sword. It almost depends on us what and how we can bring goodness to this world. It has a lot of efforts to realize our best and be awarded for this!
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