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US: Depression and suicide risk are side effects of more than 200 common drugs

Jabberwocky

Frumious Bandersnatch
Joined
Nov 3, 1999
Messages
84,998
The recent suicides of celebrities Anthony Bourdain and Kate Spade have prompted many of us to look more closely at what may drive people to depression or to end their own lives.

One risk factor has gotten little attention in this discussion: the medications people take.

More than a third of American adults are using medications that have the potential to increase their risk of depression, a study published this week in JAMA finds, and nearly a quarter use medications that have suicidal symptoms as side effects.

The 203 drugs the researchers identified aren?t obscure; they include some of the most commonly prescribed medications around ? like birth control, beta blockers for high blood pressure, and proton pump inhibitors for acid reflux. (You can see the full list at the end of this article.)

Strikingly, the researchers from the University of Illinois and Columbia University discovered, people using these drugs had an elevated risk of depression compared to the general population. And the more medications with depression as a side effect people took, the more their risk of the disease increased.

_Drugs_suicide_depression_chart_.jpg


?It?s remarkable to know just how common it is that people might be at higher risk because of medicines they take,? said University of Pennsylvania psychiatry professor Michael Thase, who was not involved in the study. ?Thinking about these [potential side effects] should be [doctors?] second or third step before they prescribe antidepressants. Sometimes de-prescribing [other drugs] is what?s needed.?

Since depression affects more than one in 20 adults in the US every year, and suicide rates have been steadily climbing here for years, these new findings are an important reminder that the drugs a person takes for one health condition may be making them sick in other ways.

Americans commonly use more than 200 drugs that carry depression or suicidal symptoms as side effects
Every medication comes with many possible side effects, and most of those side effects are rare. (Just think about the warnings highlighted on the drug commercials on TV.) If a side effect is listed on a package insert, it generally means at least 1 to 2 percent of people will experience it, said lead study author Dima Mazen Qato, a pharmacist and assistant professor of pharmacy at the University of Illinois Chicago.

To figure out how common depression and suicide-related symptoms (including suicide, or suicidal thoughts and behaviors) side effects were among the drugs Americans take, the researchers turned to the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, a government-run study that's been tracking health trends in a representative sample of Americans since the 1970s.

They combed through the drug use data on more than 26,000 people who participated in the study between 2005 and 2014 and found that Americans reported using 203 medications with depression and suicidal symptoms listed among their side effects. As of 2013-?14, 38 percent of adults reported taking drugs with depression as a potential side effect within the past 30 days, while 23 percent were using drugs that carried the risk of suicidal symptoms.

After the researchers figured out that these drugs were common, they wanted to see if there was any relationship between the people taking the drugs and an elevated risk of depression. To find this out, they turned to the NHANES survey again, which also tracks mental health. They discovered that the more drugs people reported taking, the higher their risk of depression and suicide.

There was a tripling of depression risk among people on three or more medications that have depression as a potential side effect
To get a sense for how much of a risk of depression and suicide taking these drugs was associated with, let?s walk through the numbers.

In the total study population of more than 23,000 people (excluding the people on antidepressants), 6 percent reported depression. Among the users of just one of the drugs that have depression as an adverse effect, the prevalence increased to 7 percent. Among people taking two or more of the potentially depression-inducing drugs, the prevalence went up to 10 percent. And among people taking three or more of the drugs, the prevalence was 15 percent. (Again, for all these figures, the researchers excluded antidepressant users since they?d inflate the results.)

They found similar associations in non-antidepressant users who were taking medications with suicide symptoms. In the total study population, who weren?t using medications with suicidal symptoms, 5 percent of participants reported suicidal symptoms. Among adults on one of these medications, the prevalence rose to 8 percent and among adults using three or more, the prevalence increased to 18 percent.

?One can say you?d expect that finding because people who have more medical problems are more likely to take more medications and are more likely to be depressed,? said study co-author Mark Olfson, a professor of epidemiology and psychiatry at the Columbia University Medical Center.

But when the researchers looked at drugs that weren?t associated with depressive side effects, they found no dose response like the one they discovered in people taking one or more drugs with depressive or suicidal side effects. In other words, simply taking more medications, when the medications don?t have depression or suicide listed as a side effect, was not associated with an increased risk.

?It didn?t surprise me that there are a large numbers of drugs [with these side effects] and that these drugs are commonly prescribed,? said Olfson. ?But what surprised me is that you can see this connection [to depression] in the general population, how strong it was, and that it builds up with each additional medication a person uses.?

Penn?s Thase called the findings "very suggestive? and ?strong circumstantial evidence? that taking one or more medications with depression as a potential side effect may increase a person?s risk of depression. While these medications work through different mechanisms, he said, it?s possible that when they?re combined, those risks increase.

While the researchers did their best to statistically control for factors that may confound their results, like sex, age, race, and employment status, there were some things the paper can?t tell us.

Because this is an observational study and not an experimental study, the researchers stopped short of saying the medications caused the depression. To find that out, they?d need to do a follow-up study where they track people who start taking these medications over time and see if their risk of depression increases.

What?s more, there are many factors that can increase a person?s risk of depression and suicide, including one?s personal and family medical history and major life upheavals, and the researchers couldn?t account for those. The sample in the study was also too small to drill down into the individual medications and their depression patterns.

But for now, the study is a powerful reminder that people know that certain medications carry the risk of depression and suicidal thinking, and that they should talk to their doctors about that when starting on a new drug.

?When you have a patient,? said Thase, "and their story doesn?t fit the usual pattern ? there are no setbacks in the person?s life, no broken heart, no job difficulty, [doctors] should think of other possible masquerading causes ? and the chance that medication could be the cause.?

For patients concerned about the side effects of their medications, this database from the National Institutes of Health lets you search for the side effects for most drugs and drug classes. We?ve also created a table of the 203 drugs the researchers found that had depression or suicidal symptoms as side effects:

Drugs with depression and suicide risks
Name: Type Risk
Acetaminophen/Tramadol Analgesics Suicidal Symptoms
Hydropmorphone Analgesics Suicidal Symptoms
Tapentadol Analgesics Suicidal Symptoms
Tramadol Analgesics Suicidal Symptoms
Carbamazepine Anticonvulsants Suicidal Symptoms
Clonazepam Anticonvulsants Suicidal Symptoms
Diazepam Anticonvulsants Suicidal Symptoms
Ethosuximide Anticonvulsants Suicidal Symptoms
Gabapentin Anticonvulsants Suicidal Symptoms
Lamotrigine Anticonvulsants Suicidal Symptoms
Levetiracetam Anticonvulsants Suicidal Symptoms
Lorazepam Anticonvulsants Suicidal Symptoms
Methsuximide Anticonvulsants Suicidal Symptoms
Oxcarbazepine Anticonvulsants Suicidal Symptoms
Phenytoin Anticonvulsants Suicidal Symptoms
Pregabalin Anticonvulsants Suicidal Symptoms
Topiramate Anticonvulsants Suicidal Symptoms
Valproic Acid Anticonvulsants Suicidal Symptoms
Zonisamide Anticonvulsants Suicidal Symptoms
Amitriptyline Antidepressants Suicidal Symptoms
Amitriptyline/Chlordiazepoxide Antidepressants Suicidal Symptoms
Amitriptyline/Perphenazine Antidepressants Suicidal Symptoms
Bupropion Antidepressants Suicidal Symptoms
Citalopram Antidepressants Suicidal Symptoms
Clomipramine Antidepressants Suicidal Symptoms
Desipramine Antidepressants Suicidal Symptoms
Desvenlafaxine Antidepressants Suicidal Symptoms
Doxepin Antidepressants Suicidal Symptoms
Duloxetine Antidepressants Suicidal Symptoms
Escitalopram Antidepressants Suicidal Symptoms
Fluoxetine Antidepressants Suicidal Symptoms
Fluoxetine/Olanzapine Antidepressants Suicidal Symptoms
Fluvoxamine Antidepressants Suicidal Symptoms
Imipramine Antidepressants Suicidal Symptoms
Milnacipran Antidepressants Suicidal Symptoms
Mirtazapine Antidepressants Suicidal Symptoms
Nefazodone Antidepressants Suicidal Symptoms
Nortriptyline Antidepressants Suicidal Symptoms
Paroxetine Antidepressants Suicidal Symptoms
Phenelzine Antidepressants Suicidal Symptoms
Protriptyline Antidepressants Suicidal Symptoms
Selegiline Antidepressants Suicidal Symptoms
Sertraline Antidepressants Suicidal Symptoms
Trazodone Antidepressants Suicidal Symptoms
Venlafaxine Antidepressants Suicidal Symptoms
Vilazodone Antidepressants Suicidal Symptoms
Alprazolam Anxiolytics, Hypnotics and Sedatives Suicidal Symptoms
Butabarbital Anxiolytics, Hypnotics and Sedatives Suicidal Symptoms
Chlordiazepoxide Anxiolytics, Hypnotics and Sedatives Suicidal Symptoms
Clonazepam Anxiolytics, Hypnotics and Sedatives Suicidal Symptoms
Clorazepate Anxiolytics, Hypnotics and Sedatives Suicidal Symptoms
Diazepam Anxiolytics, Hypnotics and Sedatives Suicidal Symptoms
Doxepin Anxiolytics, Hypnotics and Sedatives Suicidal Symptoms
Eszopiclone Anxiolytics, Hypnotics and Sedatives Suicidal Symptoms
Flurazepam Anxiolytics, Hypnotics and Sedatives Suicidal Symptoms
Pentobarbital Anxiolytics, Hypnotics and Sedatives Suicidal Symptoms
Ramelteon Anxiolytics, Hypnotics and Sedatives Suicidal Symptoms
Triazolam Anxiolytics, Hypnotics and Sedatives Suicidal Symptoms
Zaleplon Anxiolytics, Hypnotics and Sedatives Suicidal Symptoms
Zolpidem Anxiolytics, Hypnotics and Sedatives Suicidal Symptoms
Metoclopramide Gastrointestinal Agents Suicidal Symptoms
Finasteride Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Suicidal Symptoms
Leuprolide Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Suicidal Symptoms
Levonorgestrel Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Suicidal Symptoms
Oxandrolone Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Suicidal Symptoms
Progesterone Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Suicidal Symptoms
Montelukast Respiratory Agents Suicidal Symptoms
Ribavirin Respiratory Agents Suicidal Symptoms
Roflumilast Respiratory Agents Suicidal Symptoms
Zafirlukast Respiratory Agents Suicidal Symptoms
Acamprosate Other Suicidal Symptoms
Amantadine Other Suicidal Symptoms
Armodafinil Other Suicidal Symptoms
Aripiprazole Other Suicidal Symptoms
Asenapine Other Suicidal Symptoms
Atomoxetine Other Suicidal Symptoms
Carbidopa/Entacapone/Levodopa Other Suicidal Symptoms
Carbidopa/Levodopa Other Suicidal Symptoms
Ciprofloxacin Other Suicidal Symptoms
Dapsone Other Suicidal Symptoms
Efavirenz Other Suicidal Symptoms
Efavirenz/Emtricitabine/Tenofovir Other Suicidal Symptoms
Iloperidone Other Suicidal Symptoms
Interferon Beta-1a Other Suicidal Symptoms
Interferon Beta-1b Other Suicidal Symptoms
Isotretinoin Other Suicidal Symptoms
Lurasidone Other Suicidal Symptoms
Memantine Other Suicidal Symptoms
Mefloquine Other Suicidal Symptoms
Methylphenidate Other Suicidal Symptoms
Modafinil Other Suicidal Symptoms
Moxifloxacin Other Suicidal Symptoms
Naltrexone Other Suicidal Symptoms
Natalizumab Other Suicidal Symptoms
Olanzapine Other Suicidal Symptoms
Ofloxacin Other Suicidal Symptoms
Peginterferon Alfa-2a Other Suicidal Symptoms
Quetiapine Other Suicidal Symptoms
Raltegravir Other Suicidal Symptoms
Risperidone4 Other Suicidal Symptoms
Rivastigmine5 Other Suicidal Symptoms
Sibutramine Other Suicidal Symptoms
Tetrabenazine Other Suicidal Symptoms
Varenicline Other Suicidal Symptoms
Cyclobenzaprine Analgesics Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Fentanyl Analgesics Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Acetaminophen/Hydrocodone Analgesics Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Ibuprofen Analgesics Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Indomethacin Analgesics Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Morphine Analgesics Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Nabumetone Analgesics Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Oxycodone Analgesics Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Atenolol Antihypertensives Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Atenolol/Chlorthalidone Antihypertensives Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Betaxolol Antihypertensives Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Bendroflumethiazide/Nadolol Antihypertensives Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Brimonidine Antihypertensives Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Brimonidine/Timolol Antihypertensives Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Dorzolamide/Timolol Antihypertensives Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Enalapril Antihypertensives Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Hydrochlorothiazide/Metoprolol Antihypertensives Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Hydrocodone Antihypertensives Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Metolazone Antihypertensives Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Metoprolol Antihypertensives Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Nisoldipine Antihypertensives Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Quinapril Antihypertensives Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Telmisartan Antihypertensives Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Timolol Antihypertensives Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Trandolapril Antihypertensives Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Betamethasone Corticosteroids Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Cortisone Corticosteroids Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Dexamethasone Corticosteroids Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Methylprednisolone Corticosteroids Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Prednisolone Corticosteroids Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Prednisone Corticosteroids Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Triamcinolone Corticosteroids Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Atropine/Diphenoxylate Gastrointestinal Agents Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Cimetidine Gastrointestinal Agents Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Dexlansoprazole Gastrointestinal Agents Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Esomeprazole Gastrointestinal Agents Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Famotidine Gastrointestinal Agents Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Omeprazole Gastrointestinal Agents Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Ranitidine Gastrointestinal Agents Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Anastrozole Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Bicalutamide Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Cabergoline Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Conjugated Estrogens Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Conjugated Estrogens/Medroxyprogesterone Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Desogestrel/Ethinyl Estradiol Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Dienogest/Estradiol Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Drospirenone/Ethinyl Estradiol Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Drospirenone/Ethinyl Estradiol/Levomefolate Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Esterified Estrogens Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Esterified Estrogens/Methyltestosterone Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Estradiol Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Estradiol/Norethindrone Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Estropipate Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Ethinyl Estradiol/Ethynodiol Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Ethinyl Estradiol/Etonogestrel Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Ethinyl Estradiol/Levonorgestrel Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Ethinyl Estradiol/Norethindrone Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Ethinyl Estradiol/Norgestimate Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Ethinyl Estradiol/Norgestrel Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Etonogestrel Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Exemestane Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Goserelin Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Hydroxyprogesterone Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Medroxyprogesterone Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Megestrol Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Norethindrone Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Tamoxifen Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Testosterone Hormones/Hormone Modifiers Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Cetirizine Respiratory Agents Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Abacavir/Lamivudine Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Acebutolol Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Acitretin Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Amphetamine/Detroamphetamine Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Baclofen Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Benzphetamine Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Cinacalcet Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Clonidine Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Cyclosporine Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Dantrolene Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Dexmethylphenidate Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Donepezil Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Dronabinol Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Emtricitabine Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Erlotinib Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Flecainide Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Fluphenazine Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Galantamine Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Haloperidol Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Maraviroc Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Methyldopa Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Metolazone Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Metronidazole Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Oxybutynin Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Phentermine Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Pimozide Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Prazosin Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Propafenone Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Propranolol Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Rasagiline Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Rotigotine Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Sorafenib Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms
Tizanidine Other Depressive (Non-Suicidal) Symptoms


Source: https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/6/14/17458726/depression-drugs-suicide-side-effect
 
In the defense of these medications, I'd say life has become a suicide risk.
 
Yup. Especially when coming off of them ;)

But yeah, it's also technically a side effect of the medication in vitro. Perhaps less than super common, but statistically significant.

Drugs are weird.
 
It could be due to paradoxical reaction. But you would quickly learn not to keep taking them, if that were the case.

Especially when coming off of them

Side effects are typically understood as acute effects, and are what I'm most concerned about when reviewing a drug for possible ingestion.
 
I lot of these drugs are corrollated with increased suicide risk. We all know cordollation does not equal causation. I'm phych drugs people start taking them because they are experiencing distress so a higher incident rate of suicide doesn't mean the drugs caused the suicide just that mentally I'll people kill themselves at higher rates. Get what I'm saying?
 
I lot of these drugs are corrollated with increased suicide risk. We all know cordollation does not equal causation. I'm phych drugs people start taking them because they are experiencing distress so a higher incident rate of suicide doesn't mean the drugs caused the suicide just that mentally I'll people kill themselves at higher rates. Get what I'm saying?

Not all the meds on the list above are psych meds.

Some of them make sense, i.e. the hormonal/steroidal drugs.

Am curious as to why varenicline seems to cause suicidal behavior.
 
Alprazolam has caused me severe suicidal and overly depressed thoughts. They usually come on strongest the day after i take it.
 
Primarily i get the depressive thoughts the next day but it happens when i take it as well.

No i don't enjoy the effects other then purely for mitigating panic attacks, hence why i stopped abusing xanax many years ago.
 
When you were abusing xanax, did you get the suicidal thoughts? But found it reinforcing enough to keep using?

Sorry if I'm annoying you, just deeply curious.

Glad to hear you're not abusing it <3

Do you think it was due to a hangover like effect or from cravings? Or do you feel it was an acute effect of the drug?
 
I kept abusing it for a year or so because i was a curious kid with nothing better to do. I never really enjoyed it that much, it was kinda fun to bumble around in a haze all night but it lost its veneer quickly. I only remember feeling pretty dull during the effects, i wouldn't say the depressed feelings were present while under the influence.

It was all just part of the next day xanax haze. The day after heavy usage, 1.5-4mg + however much booze, i just got this feeling of intense melancholy like nothing in the world mattered or had any meaning. I never craved it the day after or much at all, the only cravings i had were when it was 11-3am and i knew i had some in the house and nothing to do the next day.

I don't mind the questions at all, it's good i reflect on this point in my past so i am not doomed to repeat it.
 
It was never the alcohol, i'm pretty sure of that. Thank you for the consolation, this was 5+ years ago and luckily i came to my senses before i ever knew of benzo withdrawals.
 
-Finasteride nearly made me kill myself (and like 5 friends, and 20 other ppl I know. Documented on a website. Not propecia help and not solve pfs -- something much less depressing). Late 20s.
-Saved myself.
-Bad luck / rather not get into it.
-Effexor made me so crazy could have easily have been killed (by dangerous ppl, stupid mistakes, blackouts/ memory loss, waking up somewhere not knowing how I got there).
-19 or 20 or 21 then.

-Fuck pharma.

-That said, stims + GPC + MMJ for me. +FASTING + Str training + martial arts time permitting + money, traveling, and never trusting anyone. = best meds for me. --Ideally a fam doctor, therapist, and trusted MD in Psychiatry. I had none of those last 3 for post effexor or now during post - fin, but it's dangerous, and I could have used help a lot sooner esp last yr, this yr, and after effexor (2008 2009).
---> and I hated weed forever. And I hate pharma, but it's hard to mess up MPH or D-Amp.
-Alpha-GPC is a noot (40% choline by weight).

-Peace out.
-That fin stuff is documented elsewhere / may share, blog one day. But I have monetized writing, grad, my business to focus on first.
-and silence is golden when reversing extreme, severe, persistent damage.

-Have an uncle, PhD comp sci - startups etc. He had a v smart friend, 30's kids married, PhD (probably pretty successful, all my uncle's friends are pretty smart and doing well). He took Accutane and jumped out of his window (RIP).

-I have a friend, male model good looking, face completely changed with fin and duta. AND way worse stuff too (in a sense).

-I lost a lot of hair on Lamotrigine and Adderall (2 days use). That made me dumb enough to try fin. Couldn't leave apartment, buy groceries or anything, then recognize apartment, eat, digest, sleep, feel awake, think straight. HORRIFIC.
-I want those fucks to suffer as much as I and others have.
-Dermatologists, fam docs, PHARMA**** really ruined a lot of people.
-Psychiatrists too.
 
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-ALSO on effexor, had other stuff. Ativan -- threw away after first or second dose, made me have suicidal ideation.
ANXIETY disorder dx'd (wrong mostly) after ACCUTANE.

Probably fucked forever bc I had acne and some hair loss. And my family and life was fkd so I took anxiety meds. Guess shouldn't have been so dumb or trusting (same thing) at 18.


-ashwagandha, etc rage.
-melatonin works maybe 8 hrs later usually (too fucking late).
-L theanine, dexedrine, alpha-gpc, creatine HCl, MMJ (hi cbd, Girl Scout Cookies from legit vendors or LP's), Magnesium, workouts, and choosing happiness (not just money, success, or other nonsense).
-End of the day, need to do what's right for you.

-On another forum (thankful for, helped save my life) but they do not get (mostly) that I need to treat my dual dx... BC finasteride wasn't my only problem. Fin was more severe... (which says a lot. If a post-medication-disorder, i.e an iatrogenic illness is more severe than ADHD+BPII), but life was still pretty hard MOOD and FOCUS wise (to just call them buy their most obvious/"pertinent" effect. Obv it's more complicated than that. I can explain the exec function parts to ADHD pretty well, but won't here).
-SO psyche guys say I need LAMICTAL or this or that (Lithium) or Saphris or whatever other bs is there now or soon (same shyt).
--> Stoners say I need weed.
--> or never take stims.
--> Psyche forums ("don't speak bad about meds, you just killed us all").
--> the other place *that I like* says I'm doing something dangerous.
--> Do you, because everyone else is already taken.

--Whatever helps me be stable, secure, fit, good focus and mood, and achieve my goals, and have structure....
and never get deathly ill again (side effects), then fine. I'll do that. Least harmful way I can.

---> 3 supps or meds all I need, and can change or take and leave any of them for periods of time.
--> USING dex from 2015 and 2016, didn't use 17mo++ for example. (kind of need it tho, was too ill for caring about it that much. Now doing too much work bs to not have it).


---FOR ME EFFEXOR and FIN were 10-10000X worse than Crystal Meth, Cocaine, 50-70 (whatever 2.5 -3 bottles 750ml is, maybe 54 shots +++ bc of other drinks) shots of vodka a week, and drug-related extortion (pretty fucking bad to most ppl and it was to me too).

--> Coke in early 20's prtty functional but obv not great for mood and crap for ADD vs D-amp.
---> rite diagnosis, less shady friends, better surroundings, less terrible medical system.... could have prevented tons of this.
---> also I never touched a drug, till Effexor.

--> I will get enough money to buy and sell the PhD's that say "it's all safe", those out of shape, half-illiterate family doctors too.
--> missed out on 400mn dollars with an idea I had last yr (not even joking, bc I was nearly dead.... missed out on super easy money --- say 1/1000th of that, still a lot of fucking money).

--> whatever, still here, young, smart, etc. Super pissed tho. Better now with weed. Before I workout and when I first wake up I want to fuck up nearly anything I see, but it's wrong so I try my best to quell the anger.

-Not that angry all the time and anger like anxiety etc can be a "cancer".
-NO time for that.
-__> and it's not worth thinking about ppl that hurt you, bc they aren't thinking about you.

Run your life and health like a business (CARTEL) and cut off anything, activity, person, family member, girlfriend, whoever that ruins your mental/physical health, well-being. long-run, we're all dead.
 
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I drank more then ever since I started antidepressants 8/9 years ago.

First I was on the Lexapro and I put on 40kg, this was maybe cause I had lost a tonne of weight through exercising before that but Lexapro just numbed me too much and eventually with the alcohol I stopped caring about life. That fucken cunt of a psychologist should of never given me a recommendation to take it and get it off a doctor to make her therapy sessions easier. It even fucken says no drinking whilst taking lexapro. The Dr knew I was an alcoholic too but I just listened and obeyed without doing my own research as I was in a dark spot.

4 years later I went on the cymbalta. 2 years ago I tried overdosing on valium whilst on it, found myself passed out next morning with a belt around my neck. FFW to May this year and I had a seizure after I overdosed on 4 grams of cocaine after I had blown 60 grand gambling and doing coke over a month period. Something about coke, cymbalta and booze was a bad idea. Now my Dr shouldn't of even told me to take cymbalta as there are prone issues with alcoholics and cymbalta giving liver and kidney damage. I stopped drinking on June the 1st and slipped twice. The second slip I took meth after a 7 year break and I am putting my life together.
 
Run your life and health like a business (CARTEL) and cut off anything, activity, person, family member, girlfriend, whoever that ruins your mental/physical health, well-being. long-run, we're all dead.

Am using that as a quote if you don't mind.
 
Taking 2 on that list. Still terribly depressed. One helps. Waiting on the other.

Have you ever really really really really tried to resolve your issues?

Like dug everything up to make sense of it all?

You probably have repressed issues that you haven't dealt with in a long fucken time.

If you are wiser now, go and evaluate every single year of your life. Write your age, i.e. Age 20 - then list the events etc...Eventually you get a sense of how everything started and why it did. What is better now is due to maturity the way you interpret these past events or incidents will give you closure as you now have the tools or understanding to do so. If the problem still makes you sad step onto the other side and evaluate them for e.g. . The reality is it can't always go the way we want as we all have different heads with different ideas etc...What you can do is learn to appreciate and respect the reality or incident for what it is and then address the issue etc accordingly.

I did this only a few weeks ago as I just got fed up of going to the psych for another session. I began researching how they even try and help clients. Some of them go to forums and ask others which I find to be fucken sad :(

If you let yourself be honest you will re-connect with yourself. You will cry a lot and it will take you a long time to process things and you won't be writing every day if you do it properly. If you start crying it means you are making progress. Keep at it. The deeper you go the freer you will be.

Then if you are still saddened by the issues begin to evaluate your parents behaviours and then accept you learnt this from them. If there is issues in them look to their parents and their home environment. You will see just how fucked it was for them too.

Now respect the situation. You will see it is the way it is because all we are is humans and inclined to make mistakes etc..

All the best.
 
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