It?s gotten insanely toxic in CE&P. Please read and discuss in a civil manner

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Droppersneck

Ex-Bluelighter
Joined
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This is the next sub forum to die, as the conservative posters are picked off for being ?off topic?, ?posting in the wrong thread?, wrong think, etc.. As these highly partisan tactics are used to silence dissent, I see the sub forum becoming the next iteration of the lounges fall into alienation and solitude. I?m literally only bringing this up for Bardo would want me to, that dude was far left but managed to see eye to eye with most of us, and kept the sub forum thriving with different ideas/debate/ cohesion. I can?t sing his praises enough, as he was a great person and transcended partisanship somehow, but I can?t help but feel like he would have wanted me to say something before we all decided to leave and left the site as it turned into the perpetual circle jerk certain folks have so longed for. Wasn?t sure if I could even post this sadly, if my adult language/frankness would be acceptable. If this is too much I understand, I?ll delete or I?m sure someone else will.

Droppers
 
This is the next sub forum to die, as the conservative posters are picked off for being ?off topic?, ?posting in the wrong thread?, wrong think, etc.. As these highly partisan tactics are used to silence dissent, I see the sub forum becoming the next iteration of the lounges fall into alienation and solitude. I?m literally only bringing this up for Bardo would want me to, that dude was far left but managed to see eye to eye with most of us, and kept the sub forum thriving with different ideas/debate/ cohesion. I can?t sing his praises enough, as he was a great person and transcended partisanship somehow, but I can?t help but feel like he would have wanted me to say something before we all decided to leave and left the site as it turned into the perpetual circle jerk certain folks have so longed for. Wasn?t sure if I could even post this sadly, if my adult language/frankness would be acceptable. If this is too much I understand, I?ll delete or I?m sure someone else will.

Droppers

I agree with your post. I am not even politically conservative and I've read how this has happened.

Unfortunately CEP has gotten way too biased, and the moderators/admins or certain favorites of the moderators/admins basically have turned into the politically correct police and get offended over things that outside of academia and bluelight, are not offensive, and are not really even actually racist, fascist, actual hate speech, etc.

Even though certain admins and moderators will now claim or post in this thread and elsewhere, "that there's no political bias at all here..." it is true that if you post anything that certain people do not agree with that your post or threads will be edited, deleted, or you will get warned/infractions/banned, called racist, fascist, or other slurs/accusations that are not true, etc. and people who post pro-leftist BS are allowed to flame/harass people who do not agree with the leftist rhetoric.
 
I agree with your post. I am not even politically conservative and I've read how this has happened.

Unfortunately CEP has gotten way too biased, and the moderators/admins or certain favorites of the moderators/admins basically have turned into the politically correct police and get offended over things that outside of academia and bluelight, are not offensive, and are not really even actually racist, fascist, actual hate speech, etc.

Even though certain admins and moderators will now claim or post in this thread and elsewhere, "that there's no political bias at all here..." it is true that if you post anything that certain people do not agree with that your post or threads will be edited, deleted, or you will get warned/infractions/banned, called racist, fascist, or other slurs/accusations that are not true, etc. and people who post pro-leftist BS are allowed to flame/harass people who do not agree with the leftist rhetoric.

Yes, you are one of the ones I was thinking about. You’re not conservative but don’t follow the same stream of consciousness pushed by the current mod team, so you are subsequently ostracized. Jgrimez also concerns me, that dude has been one of the most learned best informed bluelighters, posting in good faith. Yet constantly banned and harassed for being “off topic” or being mean to the Clinton's, etc. I’m confused, as to why an echo chamber is even considered optimal. The forum is clearly driven by conservative/libertarian/ realist view points. I just want to see a fair shake again, bc I enjoy and see value in discussion on CEP. I’m dropping all of my shit here, the site has nothing to lose and is quickly moving into obscurity. This is my last ditch effort, but maybe I should just be banned idk, feel like Im speaking up for the people that don’t have a voice or aren’t willing. Guess we aren’t hearing from others bc they assume this is in bad faith or don’t want to address this very real issue. It is what it is and I truly don’t mind if folks attack me personally if it’s constructive, and maybe the site moves to a better more tolerant place. To most here I will be considered to be trolling, but like with BP I’m 100% serious.
 
I am really glad someone has stepped up and said this. I have noticed this for the past year or so with it becoming really obvious in the past 2-3 months. It was subtle at first, but then it's as if when it became more & more apparent that the vast majority of the regular posters weren't just left leaning but complete leftists then certain moderators realized that they could use their moderator powers to push their agenda without fear of real rebuke since there wasn't enough regular posters on the other side to raise any significant protest. It kept getting worse & worse until reaching the point its at now where it's devolved into a total hive-mind echo chamber and since all of the moderators are a part of it there's nobody to keep balance.

The formation of an echo chamber is almost inevitable on any platform when the issue is one as divisive as politics and where the proponents for one side are the significant majority of the members and it's clear that this happened a long time ago on CEAP. On a functional message board that officially is not meant to have a partisan bias, however, the moderators are supposed to ensure that debate & discussion is encouraged so that the minority can still have a voice and are free to argue against the status quo without fear of harassment or brigading or other malicious methods of silencing. The moderators don't have to be perfectly neutral, robotically carrying out their duties with vulcan detachment, but it is possible for actual good moderators to uphold the rules and moderate fairly despite their personal political opinions, and shaking up CE&P and instating a new team of moderators is way overdue IMO.

The crazy thing is that I'm actually a left-leaning liberal myself. I despise fascism and nationalism and racism and all the other ugly facets of the worse side of the right, but I try to be open-minded enough to not tar all conservatives with the same brush and I'm realistic enough to know that the majority of conservatives abhor those things just as much as I do, but despite the fact that I agree with the status quo there I saw too many posts removed, threads deleted & people harrassed for the simple crime of being conservative. I'm so glad you have spoken up about it - I would have done it myself, but I don't have enough clout and am not a recognizable name and worried that I might get banned for sharing my views, so I am happy that you have done this Droppersneck, good job!
 
I have been infracted whatever the hell for questioning mod decisions etc and obv theres more to that so invite staff to make public everything thats been said plus all disciplinary action incurred so the clear picture is available.

I can do so myself at risk of yet again infractions but i dont want to give you the satisfaction.

So go ahead cep team and anyone else.. I mean hell guido already made that one public and I should be pissed at him but the reactions of my mates was so funny it was worth it

Nothing personal about you, the initial instigator of action. Your name was never made available.

.


Lets show everyone just how all your actions are justifiable.

Hey lets have a show and tell! Why not hey?


This place has gone beyond a joke.

Its pretty clear jgrimez is being picked on as you paranoid mods think hes an alt right?


Lol yeah apparently I am one too, you know better that a couple in a relationship who is posting what (rip scuba) so if so then prove it or stfu.

As you are not following your own guidelines as it is.

It would be stupid to post there at all, no body should. Its not worth it.
 
I have been infracted whatever the hell for questioning mod decisions etc and obv theres more to that so invite staff to make public everything thats been said plus all disciplinary action incurred so the clear picture is available.

I can do so myself at risk of yet again infractions but i dont want to give you the satisfaction.

So go ahead cep team and anyone else.. I mean hell guido already made that one public and I should be pissed at him but the reactions of my mates was so funny it was worth it

Nothing personal about you, the initial instigator of action. Your name was never made available.

.


Lets show everyone just how all your actions are justifiable.

Hey lets have a show and tell! Why not hey?


This place has gone beyond a joke.

Its pretty clear jgrimez is being picked on as you paranoid mods think hes an alt right?


Lol yeah apparently I am one too, you know better that a couple in a relationship who is posting what (rip scuba) so if so then prove it or stfu.

As you are not following your own guidelines as it is.

It would be stupid to post there at all, no body should. Its not worth it.

As someone who was once a moderator of multiple forums here on bluelight, and joined in the early 2000s under a name before this one, I agree with your post. I also was warned/infracted just because I reported a private message from a troll, and I was de-moded because I would report the posts of the troll including when in the dark side they told some suicidal teenager/young adult to write suicide notes to their parents.

I saw a youtube video someone made about this site that was since taken down, and I agree with a lot of it, and this place used to be about harm reduction but it hasn't been this way in a long time, and you even had people who were moderators buying/selling drugs via this site and admins/staff/moderators could have cared less or allowed it to go on. Some people here seem to let power or their bias go to their head.
 
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I am really glad someone has stepped up and said this. I have noticed this for the past year or so with it becoming really obvious in the past 2-3 months. It was subtle at first, but then it's as if when it became more & more apparent that the vast majority of the regular posters weren't just left leaning but complete leftists then certain moderators realized that they could use their moderator powers to push their agenda without fear of real rebuke since there wasn't enough regular posters on the other side to raise any significant protest. It kept getting worse & worse until reaching the point its at now where it's devolved into a total hive-mind echo chamber and since all of the moderators are a part of it there's nobody to keep balance.

The formation of an echo chamber is almost inevitable on any platform when the issue is one as divisive as politics and where the proponents for one side are the significant majority of the members and it's clear that this happened a long time ago on CEAP. On a functional message board that officially is not meant to have a partisan bias, however, the moderators are supposed to ensure that debate & discussion is encouraged so that the minority can still have a voice and are free to argue against the status quo without fear of harassment or brigading or other malicious methods of silencing. The moderators don't have to be perfectly neutral, robotically carrying out their duties with vulcan detachment, but it is possible for actual good moderators to uphold the rules and moderate fairly despite their personal political opinions, and shaking up CE&P and instating a new team of moderators is way overdue IMO.

The crazy thing is that I'm actually a left-leaning liberal myself. I despise fascism and nationalism and racism and all the other ugly facets of the worse side of the right, but I try to be open-minded enough to not tar all conservatives with the same brush and I'm realistic enough to know that the majority of conservatives abhor those things just as much as I do, but despite the fact that I agree with the status quo there I saw too many posts removed, threads deleted & people harrassed for the simple crime of being conservative. I'm so glad you have spoken up about it - I would have done it myself, but I don't have enough clout and am not a recognizable name and worried that I might get banned for sharing my views, so I am happy that you have done this Droppersneck, good job!

I agree with this as well. I'm neither Conservative, or leftist enough for CEP, but in CEP I was branded as being fascist, racist, and other such nonsense simply because I did not 1,000% agree with everything being posted by leftists there.

Of course when I pointed this out, I was vehemently told both in public and in private that this sort of thing does not happen, that nobody that's a moderator or favorite of a moderator was being allowed to troll and post stuff towards people who they did not agree with or personally like, that would get anyone else warned/infracted/banned because they used what's deemed hate speech, or are trolling by the BLUA.
 
I agree that this is a real problem, and it's kind of sad none of the moderators have anything to say in regards to what is being said.

I also believe this thread would be taken a lot more seriously if it were posted by someone that wasn't constantly trolling and stirring the pot in an attempt to get a reaction that can then be exploited and made fun of on another platform.

Oh well.
 
I agree that this is a real problem, and it's kind of sad none of the moderators have anything to say in regards to what is being said.
i can only speak for myself but i know i try to hold back a little so that people have an opportunity to have their say first. i imagine that if staff weighed in first and often, they'd be criticised for flooding the thread and not letting people have a say :)

I also believe this thread would be taken a lot more seriously if it were posted by someone that wasn't constantly trolling and stirring the pot in an attempt to get a reaction that can then be exploited and made fun of on another platform.
indeed. perhaps that's why staff are, for now, electing to not respond.

alasdair
 
Doesn't matter who started the thread. Everyone knows what goes on in cep. The forum mods are all left wing and heavily censor its content by banning or infracting anyone with views different to theirs. If they can't find a reason to ban someone they invent one.
Ali
Sj
Swillow
Cduggles
Mainly sj and Ali and the rest just haven't got the balls to disagree.
 
In the absence of a genuine, approachable voice of reason that has the inate ability to take off the mod uniform and mingle with everyone like they all matter (and believe me we all do regardless of what anyone says otherwise), I strongly urge anyone who has been lurking this thread to read this, absorb it and hope to hell TLB's words still apply.


There have been a number of attempts to address cep issues, Im not denying any wrongdoing or temper from me and accept any flak I get.

I do not accept that stunted silence, brush offs, the hive mind pack mentality in the plugging hole though as my issue.

There is clearly an overuse of moderation and is the worst that Ive ever seen since the vanth era in aus social. The guidelines have been skewed to the detriment of some members while not applied equally to staff members who post there.

I havent seen anyone else ever required to do their own scientific research personally to have a right to their opinion, for example. Is that what we all have to do as getting core ice samples is quite an expensive time consuming mission.

TLDR, just read this.


TheLoveBandit 2009 said:
I am willing to bet this is probably the longest thing I've ever written on this site...and I've written a lot. I'd be amazed if anyone actually reads the whole thing, I'm not sure I could - certainly not in one sitting.

But what could bring me to this point? How could I possibly have anything left unsaid at this late entry? What was the magic fuel that outpaced the meth effect and made cocaine look like sleeping powder for it's motivational effect? I suspect GM is sitting back smugly basking in the biggest troll in the history of this site - I'd give that about 5% credit. If I know GM like I think I do, the level of intelligence behind his comments also pumps his ego to think he's shared vital information for the life of the site that will finally bring about change that is so desperately needed within (sr) staff. I'd give that about 3% credit as it's greatly overvaluing his contribution, but more importantly he's didn't invent this wheel. I'd probably give about 10% to the need to address a lot of misinformation written here specifically. Granted, he's a featured part of this diatribe, but that's primarily because he's been a fountain of misinformation, on facts he knows better about but preferred to play martyr for his fan base. He is not an agent of change, he's merely offered speaking points which we can clarify for the public.

That's the bigger motivation, to set the record straight on things a lot of people probably don't know (even though most of it is available to them if they weren't so fucking lazy...which is wrong of me to say, because they may not even know where to look). But the strongest driving factor is that this site is ALWAYS in need of improvement - but it is consistently falling short, usually by a lack of effort by the members. :gasp: members? Yeah, members.

As longest serving admin (and possibly one of the longest serving staff members in general), I've seen a lot of shit go down. I've survived some unbelievable turmoil on this site, and put in a LOT of time at every level of membership (except banned....I don't think I've tried that one yet). The point is, I feel compelled to act as I see best for this site. A big part of that is asking 'what is missing, how do we get it?' or 'what is really wrong?' The thing is, members typically see a lot of things that are wrong, that people inside the machine can't see - and sometimes those people inside the machine ARE the problem.



A history lesson, for those of you who don't remember it. The major players in the story would be xtcxtc (site benefactor who paid to get us where we are, but has since passed on), skydancer (one of the site founders, long term admin), and a missing C-22 (then sole Sr. Admin). The plot, let's just say this thread wouldn't even be a shoelace on that centipede (gawd, that was an awful metaphor, apologies). Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Skydancer -- A Democratic Bluelight. Still in the public domain, and an example of this site being at it's worst. The effects of it are still echoing amongst staff that were here (even as members) at that time. A time when site management really did need to be overthrown and radically overhauled. Read it if you will. At 21 pages, you can consider my novella here as a primer.



Having experienced that, there are a few key things I keep at my core when it comes to BL. First, is the members - always. Anyone accepting a role on staff, accepts the responsibility to LISTEN to the members and ACT professionally so the site will be here for the members (current and future) and be better than it was before. Before...back then? Better than when you found the place.

Listen. Listen, Think, Do, Review. Always looking to improve, always looking to learn and make things better - either myself, those around me, the site, anything. The best way to do that is listen, because if you had all the answers, you'd be done by now.

But it isn't about you, TLB. It's about the site and it's members! Yeah, the members. Let's pull one more point out of that history lesson - and you only have to go as far as the title. Democracy.

Democracy is rule by the masses. Now, true democracy doesn't really work, because someone has to play the hard part and make the hard decisions. Someone has to be held accountable in carrying out the group desire, and still keep an eye out for danger so John Q Public doesn't burn his house down or shoot his foot off. Someone has to make the rules and enforce them, and it isn't always going to be popular to be that person. Who has the balls to do it? For free, on their own time, often at their own expense? For free, knowing the thanks you'll get is bitching by those who feel persecuted? Who has the integrity to do it with the people in mind, and not their own agenda? To do it without ego and with an awareness of what the members actually want and need?

And, if we're going to listen to the members, they've gotta fucking speak. Staff has to listen, but dammit, the public has to send a message in order for one to be heard. Dialogue involves more than one person speaking. Progress requires both parties actively listening and engaging the other party. You got the time required to do this? Who is willing to invest their time as a staff member to actually hear people out, formulate a plan to implement and get it in place? Versus how many people are unwilling to step outside their own needs and wants, who prefer to remain a member who bitches without doing? A member that can state whatever they want and leave at a whim?

Here it is, the payoff for all this I've written. I'll offer you a deal, and I bet I can get the rest of the staff to go along with it (if they don't agree, I'll simply provide them the stone fucking tablet, and offer them the choice of tits or gtfo). Here's the deal:

As staff, we'll promise to work towards more transparency, and accountability to the members. This will require us to continue giving our volunteer time and effort, and to listen to the members (and for sr staff to listen to the mods) - all without fear of persecution or ridicule. We'll do our best to implement changes that benefit the site and it's members to the best of our ability. And if, as an individual, we find we can't give what's needed we'll step down of our own volition and allow someone with the time and interest to pick up our spot. We'll promise to act in a way that would make you proud to be associated with the site (read that as 'act professional') while retaining that sense of humility, of humanity.

But here's the rub. As members, you have to help us develop these plans and ideas. You have to come to SUPPORT with your suggestions, with your comments on how to improve transparency, improve operations, improve the experience for the members. YOU have to care at least half as much as you expect us to. No more sitting on your ass and bitching about the status quo without doing something about it - either forum content where you can raise the level of quality; or in calling us to accountability with a real instance to which we can learn and respond.

SUPPORT is there for a reason, and it isn't just telling people we aren't going to delete all their posts or change their screen name. SUPPORT also means you are helping us improve this place and make it better than when you got here. Don't just point at staff and say we aren't doing anything when you don't even look at what we ARE doing, when you don't participate in our efforts to engage you and get your opinions on how things are going. Hell, you don't have to wait for us to ask. Look at how many staff members jump in and respond to any post in SUPPORT - and the ones with merit, see what effect they've had in changing policy or practice.

Staff is here to serve, but members need to take some ownership as well, and not assume the staff have all the answers (I think we've proven consistently that we don't) nor chide us for not having things done how you'd like....you need to help us find those answers, you need to help us know how you'd like things done.

Donations are needed, but for every person who donates there are 10 who either claim no money is available or simply remain silent in the shadows. You can still contribute - you're already doing it with your posts in the forums. Give us something more than the lulz, give us something to make the place better than when you got here. Give us your ideas, give us your feedback on our plans, give us your support as we try to roll them out. Speak up or shut up. Your choice. But get off our nuts for busting our ass when you can't get past your petty LOUNGE drama bitchfest. This site is FOR the MEMBERS....act like it's yours and take some ownership in what it is.
 
Doesn't matter who started the thread. Everyone knows what goes on in cep. The forum mods are all left wing and heavily censor its content by banning or infracting anyone with views different to theirs. If they can't find a reason to ban someone they invent one.
Ali
Sj
Swillow
Cduggles
Mainly sj and Ali and the rest just haven't got the balls to disagree.

Quoted for truth. I also agree with Zypher's post above.
 
I don't really have anything to ad that hasn't already been mentioned, but count me in.
 
Without wading in to the nonsense too deep, I will just say that I think it would be an excellent idea to maybe recruit a mod for CE&P that happened to be of the conservative mindset. They would have to meet all the standards obviously, but I think it would be a good starting point in an effort to bring some sense of unity back to BL in general.

but some of you need to realize that this issue is a two way street. Don't sit there and tell me there hasn't been blatant and overwhelming trolling issues on CE&P for years and years. And it's continued to get worse. So if you have a legitimate gripe with how things are, go ahead and place some blame on staff but also look yourself in the mirror. Because some of the shit that's gone down recently has been extremely counterproductive.

and the admins especially are constantly getting pulled in both directions. They not only have to deal with the concerns of all BL'ers throughout the entire site, but also with the concerns of the entire staff AND all the technical issues we've been having on top of all that. Not to mention staff have real lives too, and real problems just like everyone else on this site. Most of the time it's damned if they do, damned if they don't. As ali said, if we would have flooded this thread immediately and started pushing back against some of these claims, there is zero doubt there would have been an outcry that we were drowning out the dissenting voices.

so if you want to see this place get better, we need to work together. Both sides need to get better, not just one or the other. Don't expect CE&P mods to put in all the time and effort it takes to do their jobs AND deal with the bullshit trolling that goes on on top of that. If you are a moderate/objective voice in all this, hold the troublemakers and instigators on the other side accountable too.
 
Without wading in to the nonsense too deep, I will just say that I think it would be an excellent idea to maybe recruit a mod for CE&P that happened to be of the conservative mindset. They would have to meet all the standards obviously, but I think it would be a good starting point in an effort to bring some sense of unity back to BL in general.

but some of you need to realize that this issue is a two way street. Don't sit there and tell me there hasn't been blatant and overwhelming trolling issues on CE&P for years and years. And it's continued to get worse. So if you have a legitimate gripe with how things are, go ahead and place some blame on staff but also look yourself in the mirror. Because some of the shit that's gone down recently has been extremely counterproductive.

and the admins especially are constantly getting pulled in both directions. They not only have to deal with the concerns of all BL'ers throughout the entire site, but also with the concerns of the entire staff AND all the technical issues we've been having on top of all that. Not to mention staff have real lives too, and real problems just like everyone else on this site. Most of the time it's damned if they do, damned if they don't. As ali said, if we would have flooded this thread immediately and started pushing back against some of these claims, there is zero doubt there would have been an outcry that we were drowning out the dissenting voices.

so if you want to see this place get better, we need to work together. Both sides need to get better, not just one or the other. Don't expect CE&P mods to put in all the time and effort it takes to do their jobs AND deal with the bullshit trolling that goes on on top of that. If you are a moderate/objective voice in all this, hold the troublemakers and instigators on the other side accountable too.

Agreed - thank you for this Mal
 
Mal: I hope you took some time to read what TLB wrote as everyone does and not write off some form of attempt at communication as "nonsense".

You have valid points as well that should be responded to with good faith as others should be responded to in good faith.

There are many people whose thoughts and take on bl as a whole and specifically in this case cep would help, or at least offer some kind of alternate improvements.

As easy at is is to point the finger at individuals who are not willing to discuss issues without coming here, its helpful to point the finger back at your own self and be open to criticism.

After reading TLB's post, I have taken stock of things and have realised its his open and transparent way of talking thats missing.

Instead of just adding to a chorus of complaint which will just fall on deaf ears, what can I do, can you do, can anyone who is noticing problems get worse do- to actually improve things?

Its normal to get mad and chuck a shit, its abnormal to pretend alls great when its not.

Your point of troublemakers and instigating is valid, theres no argument there. Theres troublemakers and troubled people on staff or not. There always have been. Troubled people dont just wake up one day and become trouble out of nowhere though .
 
Mal: I hope you took some time to read what TLB wrote as everyone does and not write off some form of attempt at communication as "nonsense".

You have valid points as well that should be responded to with good faith as others should be responded to in good faith.

There are many people whose thoughts and take on bl as a whole and specifically in this case cep would help, or at least offer some kind of alternate improvements.

As easy at is is to point the finger at individuals who are not willing to discuss issues without coming here, its helpful to point the finger back at your own self and be open to criticism.

After reading TLB's post, I have taken stock of things and have realised its his open and transparent way of talking thats missing.

Instead of just adding to a chorus of complaint which will just fall on deaf ears, what can I do, can you do, can anyone who is noticing problems get worse do- to actually improve things?

Its normal to get mad and chuck a shit, its abnormal to pretend alls great when its not.

Your point of troublemakers and instigating is valid, theres no argument there. Theres troublemakers and troubled people on staff or not. There always have been. Troubled people dont just wake up one day and become trouble out of nowhere though .

ive not read the long thing you quoted, yet. I will though. The nonsense I was referring to was nothing specific, just an acknowledgement that there is an element of bullshit in some of these complaints (not just in this thread but over the past few months too). But there are also good points. I was choosing to address those good points, and those who are being fair and objective, instead of the bullshit. Didn't want to expand too much in the spirit of productivity.
 
Without wading in to the nonsense too deep, I will just say that I think it would be an excellent idea to maybe recruit a mod for CE&P that happened to be of the conservative mindset. They would have to meet all the standards obviously, but I think it would be a good starting point in an effort to bring some sense of unity back to BL in general.

but some of you need to realize that this issue is a two way street. Don't sit there and tell me there hasn't been blatant and overwhelming trolling issues on CE&P for years and years. And it's continued to get worse. So if you have a legitimate gripe with how things are, go ahead and place some blame on staff but also look yourself in the mirror. Because some of the shit that's gone down recently has been extremely counterproductive.

and the admins especially are constantly getting pulled in both directions. They not only have to deal with the concerns of all BL'ers throughout the entire site, but also with the concerns of the entire staff AND all the technical issues we've been having on top of all that. Not to mention staff have real lives too, and real problems just like everyone else on this site. Most of the time it's damned if they do, damned if they don't. As ali said, if we would have flooded this thread immediately and started pushing back against some of these claims, there is zero doubt there would have been an outcry that we were drowning out the dissenting voices.

so if you want to see this place get better, we need to work together. Both sides need to get better, not just one or the other. Don't expect CE&P mods to put in all the time and effort it takes to do their jobs AND deal with the bullshit trolling that goes on on top of that. If you are a moderate/objective voice in all this, hold the troublemakers and instigators on the other side accountable too.

Believe it or not I am only bringing this up for blue lights benefit. Dissenting/conservative view points drive the conversation in cep, if Jgrimez and a few others get fed up with being targeted and leave, cep will be deader than the lounge. I did address ‘trolling’ when I said wrong think. What runs people of the opposite mindset off is a major double standard.
 
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It's telling that antagonizing folks who donate their time and energy to BL is all some are willing to do in their efforts to affect change. Is all you (droppers, et al) are comfortable doing complaining and spreading rumors?


  • To former staff participating in this thread, you decided to leave instead of do what you could to improve BL's culture. You tried, and then you GAVE UP. Now you say you're frustrated about how the site is being run? As members, all you're comfortable doing is complaining and shit stirring? Please explain to me how that does anything to further your agenda of political inclusion?

    Until you prove me otherwise, I can't hep but see what you're present day "contribution" as anything but a vehicle for venting frustration. Why? I haven't seen any of you provide even one well-intentioned constructive suggestion.

  • On the political front, I am left asking myself what the hell passes for conservatism today?

    In the case of internet persona's such as droppers, conservatism seems to mean feckless internet troll. A user with a LONG and distinguished history of trolling BL, I have a hard time seeing how his complaints are either genuine or about anything other than boosting his profile. Trolling is not the essence of conservatism. Neither is hatred or othering (meaning bigotry such as racism, etc).

  • Increasing transparency? Sure, I have always like that idea - just as long as it serves a point beyond facilitating dropper-type troll drama.

    The main issue facing BL at this moment in time seems to be less about political inclusion than about how the fuck we can more effectively deal with trolls who's main mission in using BL seems to be disrupting the site's operation and inclusive, non-judgemental harm reduction culture.

  • In terms of more political points of view and inclusion of diversity in CE&P? Abso-fucking-lutely!

    The caveat however is that meaningful political inclusion requires DIVERSITY. It's no wonder, considering that the single most significant portion of BL's user base seems to be white males, that issue about why we aren't allowing racist points of view and other forms of othering seem to be hot issues right now.

    For an organization dedicated to ALL PEOPLE affected by drug use, promoting political inclusion involves prohibiting/editing/removing comments that
    victimize, harass, degrade, or intimidate an individual or group of individuals on the basis of race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation or any other reason
    BLUELIGHT USER AGREEMENT

    How can we have more conservative voices present in CE&P that are welcomed and appreciated? Stop spreading hatred masquerading as politics. Respect the User Agreement that YOU consented to uphold when you activated your account. If your problem is with the User Agreement, maybe try suggesting how it could be amended to further your goals.

    Maybe try starting by clearly defining your goals.

  • Is what you want to see more of on BL about political inclusion in CE&P, less groupthink, the freedom to hurtle insults at dedicated staff members, trolling for lulz, spreading of vitriolic rumors, or making fun of people because they are struggling with drug use?

    Or, like, do you want to promote harm reduction and provide an empowering and safe space for marginalized group of people/drug users? Because, when I see threads like this, heaven knows I don't know what to think :|


Like, OMG!! This thread is still open and no posts have been deleted by staff!






Who would have thought?! :\
 
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