It?s gotten insanely toxic in CE&P. Please read and discuss in a civil manner

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^ qft

It's hard to believe Droppers is bothered by "toxicity".

Bruh, I'm sorry but LMAO

Look at what you think is funny. Look at what you see as humor. I don't care if it is offsite or not. That doesn't make it any less valid. You think anyone here cares what you think or how you feel about Bluelight on Bluelight?

You were broadcasting this very thread on your cesspool before you deleted it trying to recruit people to post here, and if you get the reaction you're looking for you won't hesitate to post it up again.

I know this place isn't perfect, but you are the last person that should be crying about toxicity.

Get a life
 
To be fair cg a lot of people find fucked up things funny. It doesn't mean they don't have valid points on anything.
There's definitely a lot of hypocrisy on bl, what one member gets banned for another won't.
 
To be fair cg a lot of people find fucked up things funny. It doesn't mean they don't have valid points on anything.
There's definitely a lot of hypocrisy on bl, what one member gets banned for another won't.

I agree that it's a good point that should be addressed, it's just the delivery that I am having a hard time digesting. If somebody else made this post it would get completely different feedback (I think)

If I put my own biased view aside, I know you are correct. As far as fucked up things being funny, I totally agree with that too. But at a certain point for me at least, it usually gets to a point where I just have to shake my head and say "damn, that is fucked up."


Especially when it comes to all of the doxxing and pretending to be other people. It's wayyyy fucked up dude and he may not do it himself but he allows it on his sub dedicated to trolling bluelight. Shit man I can't even post pictures here anymore.
 
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^ Mate Im just gonna say that the thread here hopefully can be a start of a good thing and that is creating a dialogue that anyone can put their view in to, this specifically being about the cep forum due to the original post. This is not the first attempt at this issue and could recur in the future like any other problem across the board.

Putting aside the personal drama bullshit created through the subreddit that droppersneck is involved in running just for a while, its hard I know- try to take the cep concern at face value.

He has a valid argument in what he is saying despite his trolling so what hes said shouldnt be written off.

Bardeaux is gone but what he was good at can be passed on to those who could learn from him.

It would help to prove the genuine intent of establishing this thread in the first place by coming to the party and addressing his own actions and what he intends to do should he actually want to resolve this.

Its a two way street. Its not possible to sort shit out without it.
 
From what I've read, it seems like the main complaint of these so-called conservatives (thinking of droppers and JGrimez specifically here) revolves around infractions related to clear violated of the user agreement (namely, posting racist and sexist comments). Am I missing something?

CE&P staff has change significantly over the last couple years. The environment of CE&P is MUCH more hostile now than it was then. I could see how some staff actions over the last 6-12 months have been more heavy handed or hurried than they could/have been, given how understaff CE&P is and how much pressure they're under given America's current political climate.

With how challenging it has become to run CE&P these days, staff have a lot of tough decisions to make. Perhaps we could discuss specific actions taken that could be improved upon in the future? It seems like that's the more genuine issue this thread is getting at.

Regarding droppers, he's become an entirely disruptive influence on BL (and off, it would seem). He's taken the effort to create this thread, which clearly needed to happen. Great. This thread doesn't somehow erase all his prior "contributions."
 
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^ Mate Im just gonna say that the thread here hopefully can be a start of a good thing and that is creating a dialogue that anyone can put their view in to, this specifically being about the cep forum due to the original post. This is not the first attempt at this issue and could recur in the future like any other problem across the board.

Putting aside the personal drama bullshit created through the subreddit that droppersneck is involved in running just for a while, its hard I know- try to take the cep concern at face value.

He has a valid argument in what he is saying despite his trolling so what hes said shouldnt be written off.

Bardeaux is gone but what he was good at can be passed on to those who could learn from him.

It would help to prove the genuine intent of establishing this thread in the first place by coming to the party and addressing his own actions and what he intends to do should he actually want to resolve this.

Its a two way street. Its not possible to sort shit out without it.

Fair enough zephyr. I apologize for derailing a thread that I know needs to happen for the good of bluelight. All spite aside, some people take politics as seriously as they would say their religion, so it makes sense that some mods would perhaps take certain perspectives out of context and infract/ban without logic or reason.

If it were just Droppers complaining I wouldn't pay it any mind, because he is incapable of turning off the troll and his credibility suffers as a result. Half the time he just posts things just to get under people's skin, not because that is what he actually believes. He is a troll through and through, there is nothing else to him.

However, too many people I see having this same complaint, including those not connected to said off site forum. It doesn't matter what OP's motive is in bringing this up or what he intends to do with it. The topic needs to be addressed.
 
Agreed, "the" topic does need to be address...

But please remind me what the actual topics are up for discussion here? Political inclusivity in CE&P? The way CE&P staff run their forum? Giving disgruntled ex-staffer more of a voice? Letting the troll faction do whatever they want on BL?

Let's start by pondering the title of this thread: It?s gotten insanely toxic in CE&P. Please read and discuss in a civil manner

The first statement, "It?s gotten insanely toxic in CE&P." This I can agree with 100%. It seems like everyone is actually in agreement here. It's only that the discussion in thread includes different views of how it's gotten so toxic or what is making it toxic differ in emphasis.

Is it toxic because of how CE&P staff run their forum? Or is it toxic because of trolls or users who try posting egregious violations of the User Agreement? Other reasons? What is your specific complain about CE&P? Or have you just jumped on the Droppers bandwagon because it suits your mood?

I see no substantive discussion in this thread (or CE&P) on policies we could implement to move us in less toxic directions. Put your money where you mouth is if you please: Make a meaningful suggestion.

On to the title's second statement, "Please read and discuss in a civil manner". I'm left wondering, why didn't this happen in CE&P? Why is it happening here instead? That's the more interesting question for me.

The troll faction does not seem to be interested in having a "civil" discussion about issues related to CE&P in CE&P. Why should I believe that's all they really want here in STH?
 
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We often times only see what we want to see, our own biases take over. I don’t foresee flagship memebers and moderators being able to recognize their own bias, especially after the responses I saw after I pointed out some obvious hypocrisy in cep yesterday. I’m only bringing this up for the good of the forum, but I understand why folks think I’m addressing this in bad faith. If me, soso, nuttey, Jgrimez, liquidmethod, priest, and a couple others I’m forgetting stop posting, the forum will become slower and worse than the lounge and a few other sub forums that have died. The conversation is driven by the few opposing view points, now I know some may think an echo chamber is optimal, but it results in a dead forum most of the time. I can go either way with this, and I respect the decision of Alasdair with which way he chooses to go.
 
We often times only see what we want to see, our own biases take over. I don’t foresee flagship memebers and moderators being able to recognize their own bias, especially after the responses I saw after I pointed out some obvious hypocrisy in cep yesterday. I’m only bringing this up for the good of the forum, but I understand why folks think I’m addressing this in bad faith.

Is it so easy to avoid implicit bias? The whole point of implicit bias is that you aren't aware you have it when you have it. So yes, it's hard to see our own biases at work when they "take over." Somehow I don't think that's the issue here.

Beyond that, BL was never meant to be entirely unbiased. We are biased toward providing an online harm reduction community. It wouldn't be BL if we weren't. Are we supposed to be entirely politically unbiased? If we support harm reduction, we wouldn't want to be.

Would CE&P being more inclusive be cool? Sure. But that doesn't seem like what you are talking about. It's the silver lining of this thread, no thanks to you Droppers. TL is the appropriate forum to troll in, not CE&P.

The issue here is that members have complaints about how CE&P is being run. Beyond expressing your frustration, what are your specific complaints with how CE&P is being run?

This is the appropriate place to bring up your complaints about CE&P. Do you have complaints related to specific actions staff have taken? Do you have infractions, PMs or posts you can reference that we can discuss here to get to the heart of things?

Please share specific examples to substantiate what you're saying. Otherwise it's hard to take you that seriously. None of us can read your mind. All that's obvious so far is some of you are upset with how CE&P is run, not what you're actually upset about. Unless you provide specific examples, all we can do is assume or guess. If you feel we are being biased, that is because you're not giving us anything to go on.

That's also an invitation to Soso, Nutty, JGrimez, Rio and Priest. This is the place to bring complaints about specifics actions to light you feel harm or otherwise inhibit the BL ecosystem. Don't just complain about it by starting another nasty flavored thread. Do something about it!

FWIW I'm glad this is happening here. Don't let any of my posts come off as me being pissed this is happening. All things considered, CE&P staff have been doing an outstanding job running their ship. We all have become increasingly frustrated about what in CE&P. This discussion is welcomed here. It would be a waste if it didn't accomplish anything.

But as the message from TLB zephyr posted says, whether this accomplishes anything isn't just up to staff. It's up to the members.

If me, soso, nuttey, Jgrimez, liquidmethod, priest, and a couple others I’m forgetting stop posting, the forum will become slower and worse than the lounge and a few other sub forums that have died. The conversation is driven by the few opposing view points, now I know some may think an echo chamber is optimal, but it results in a dead forum most of the time. I can go either way with this, and I respect the decision of Alasdair with which way he chooses to go.

That sounds more like an opinion or argument than demonstrative of your actual contributions. Priest is an example. He is posting less, we are no worse off. You are another example. You're posting more in CE&P, and CE&P is much more hostile. Correlation ain't causation, but it is interesting.

If you're upset about something, specific examples please? So we can know what you're actually talking about?
 
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Can we unban Jgrimez for the good of discussion? No need to think I’m being hostile, I’m not trying to be and that isn’t my intent. My acct can be permabanned today or CEP could become a the neutral forum it once was when cooler heads prevailed, I have little skin in the game. I’m more speaking out for the folks not willing to start the conversation. It’s a common thread, and I think Jgrimez could bring some valuable points to the discussion tbh
 
Can we unban Jgrimez for the good of discussion? No need to think I’m being hostile, I’m not trying to be and that isn’t my intent. My acct can be permabanned today or CEP could become a the neutral forum it once was when cooler heads prevailed, I have little skin in the game. I’m more speaking out for the folks not willing to start the conversation. It’s a common thread, and I think Jgrimez could bring some valuable points to the discussion tbh

I suggest you PM an admin, ask and go from there. Not my decision.

Toothpaste are you saying you don't think cep is biased in anyway?

I didn't say anything along those lines. What I said is that bias isn't the significant issue this thread brings to light. The significant issue this thread bring to light is that some members have serious complaints. Not for me to say if they're wrong or right, but...

It is for me to politely ask you to provide specific examples, so we all can get a sense of what you feel needs to change.
 
i'm going on vacation for a week with limited access - i assume that, in my absence, everything will be wine and roses given i'm everything that's wrong with bl :)

a few general thoughts...

...feel like Im speaking up for the people that don’t have a voice...
who are these people with no voice? i'm seeing plenty of criticism in this thread and nobody's been banned for expressing an opinion.

Doesn't matter who started the thread.
of course it does. i tend to echo cosmicg's specific comments in this regard. it's hard (not just for me) to take seriously the idea that the op is posting in good faith given that poster's history. further, the irony of being told we're 'toxic' is not lost on me :)

when you read my posts soso78 do you think "hmm. he makes some good points and i'm trying to see his point of view" or "great. more excuses from this awful, virtue-signalling, sjw, commie, libtard cuck who's responsible for evrything that's wrong with bl!"? bias goes both ways and it's, frankly, inevitable.

from the much-mocked blua: "...you may not...post or upload any content that victimizes, harasses, degrades, or intimidates an individual or group of individuals on the basis of race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation..."

i don't like to generalise but left-leaners tend not to post content that degrades people on the basis of race, sexual orientation and such. post like that tend to come from right-leaners. so there's always going to be a tension with that constituency and this rule. that is simply not going to change and this isn't me being a nazi mod. the owners are quite clear that kind of content has no place on bluelight.

Even though certain admins and moderators will now claim or post in this thread and elsewhere, "that there's no political bias at all here..."
i don't see anybody doing that.

much of this discussion seems to be centered around a specific user - jgrimez. he's being oppressed! his alternate viewpoint is being silenced! in the interests of transparency let's discuss.

jgrimez is currently on a temporary ban. here's a recent post for which he received a one-point infraction:

No offense but can you please shut the fuck up...

that's not an alternate viewpoint being silenced. this is not politically motivated censorship. it's somebody who's been asked numerous times to stop being a dick being a dick. it's especially ironic coming from somebody who constantly complains about others' abuse and name-calling. when people do this then turn around and claim they're being victimised for theiir politics, can you truly blame us for rolling our eyes and not giving a shit?

ce&p is a microcosm of the country and the world... see: America may be more divided now than at any time since the Civil War

Though the country has been heading toward such a schism for decades, the Trump presidency has accelerated this trend. Today America may be more divided than it’s been at any point since the Civil War. Though he has only been in office for about nine months, Trump is already the most divisive president in modern history, and according to an ABC News/Washington Post poll from last month a majority (66 percent) of Americans think that the president is doing more to divide the country than unite it — higher than his two predecessors, George W. Bush and Barack Obama, who both peaked at 55 percent.

like you, i have many questions and few answers. believe it or not, i ask myself constantly what am i doing to make things better...

so let's talk about specific things that can be done to improve matters?

How can we have more conservative voices present in CE&P that are welcomed and appreciated? Stop spreading hatred masquerading as politics. Respect the User Agreement that YOU consented to uphold when you activated your account. If your problem is with the User Agreement, maybe try suggesting how it could be amended to further your goals.
indeed.

...shaking up CE&P and instating a new team of moderators is way overdue IMO.
who are you suggesting? i totally agree that a balance of perspective is important. we did have a 'right-leaning' voice on the ce&p staff until very recently. he just went awol and had to be removed after numerous attempts to contact him went unanswered. maybe left-leaning staff tend to be more caring, compassionate and dedicated to the responsibilities of volunteering by their very nature? :)

so who would you add and why?

for those who kept reading to the end of this extemporaneous download, thank you. thanks also to those in the thread who've offered their feedback - both negative and positive - in good faith.

alasdair
 
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click the second link above and scroll to the bottom of the page under "Moderators of this Forum".

alasdair
 
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