Opioids I?ve decided to use opioids, looking for advice on protecting myself

[candidsurprise]

Hello all,


I?ve lost everything to the disease that is clinical depression. I?ve lost my fianc?, my career in law, my sanity, my self respect; as I?m sure many of you with crippling mental illness can relate to. Medication does nothing for me, except ketamine which I can only get once in a while. I?ve tried therapy to no avail.


So I?ve decided I?m going to use opiates to see if it helps. Now believe me I?m well aware that this is a dangerous path. I know that the risk of addiction is very high. I know that because I?ve seen friends, with normal lives, becoming addicted to this shit. So I do not take this decision lightly. However, it is a decision I?ve decided to take based on my condition.


I?ve used opiates before. The opiates that I?ve tried are oxycodone, Tramadol and Kratom . The opiates that I have access to are those three, heroin, dihydrocodiene, codeine and tapentadol . I went through a phase of using oxycodone once a week or so. I didnt get much ?euphoria? from it, nor much of an anti depressant effect. I got bored of it and stopped. I didn?t feel a thing on Kratom, even at high doses. Tramadol completely obliterated my depression . I used to experience a serotonin high combined with hard, euphoric nodding at high doses and a perfect anti-depressant effect at low doses. It was 20x times better than oxy for me. I did this at 2-3 times a week for 6 months and then stopped. I stopped because I used to be left with unbearable depression and anxiety following the 3 days of use (I. This didn?t happen to me on oxy (so I assume it was the serotonin related effects of tram that did it). I never experienced any cravings or urges to use on my ?days off? over the year or so that I was taking opioids weekly. I never experienced any degree of physical dependence.


So my question is - what is the safest and most effective opioid for this purpose, and what is the best advice you can give to avoid addiction? My intention is to try my hardest to fight addiction and never to use more than two days a week. What tips can you give to help me fight any aspects of psychological addiction based on your experience? One thing I?ve already done is acquired some memantine (an NMDA antagonist) to prevent or restrict tolerance development. I?ve heard good things about ultra low dose naltrexone too?

I have used GHB and low dose methamphetamine in the past. They were effective but GHB loses its antidepressant properties with more than one day of use a week, and methamphetamine was effectively but too recreational/euphoric with a bad crash so I stopped. No compulsive usage patterns with either.

 

[Kittycat5]

I think you know this is a really slippery slope so I wont preach about it even though I honestly believe this is sustainable.

That being said, I would maybe give tapentadol as shot as you get the opioid effect on par with tramadol with less serotonergic activity (primarily an NRI). I wouldve said oxycodone as I find it very stimulating personally but that may be a function of dose. May I ask how much you were taking?

 

[candidsurprise]

The highest dose of oxycodone that I tried was 30mg oral. It was potent in the sense that I was nodding out hard (minimal tolerance) and all the other typical opioid effects, but I didn't feel any euphoria or mood lift for some reason. I still felt the same. I was actually worried that I took too much because I was laid down listening to music and slipping in and out of wakefulness and I started to get paranoid about my breathing. The two reasons I don't wanna use oxy is 1) my experience with a not-even-high dose of the stuff was slightly disturbing, and 2) 45mg+ of oxy is just too expensive for me I simply can't afford it.

Tapentadol seems ideal on paper, it's just that I'm scared of inducing that horrible rebound that I used to get every time with tramadol. You think very low dose heroin is out of the question? I don't know that much about the pharmacology of opioids, but in very low doses is it more similar to milder opioids? I'm really not lookin for that horrible, fucked up heroin high (in my opinion) that slumps you over and makes you wanna lie on your couch all day.

Reason why I mention this is cus the other day I was talking to my friend that I hadn't seen in a while, who does a tonne of coke and some crack too. And I mentioned that I used meth and had this rule where I was only allowed to take it once a week and stuck to it, and that when I felt any cravings (which actually weren't very often) I applied the teachings of mindfulness and allowed those feelings to pass and saw them as just intrusive feelings (I also have OCD and this is part of the way that I've learned to deal with the intrusive thoughts from OCD). And then my friend replied 'man you must have insane willpower I don't know anyone that could just pick up meth and put it down for a week, every week without slipping in extra days' . Absolutely not bragging, just trying to illustrate the strict guidelines that I set and determination not to fall into addiction. Maybe deep down part of this is me testing myself, to challenge myself to succeed in willpower where most others have failed. In any case, the point is that I don't want to get high in the first place. When I think of acquiring opiates, I don't think 'omg I can't wait to feel that orgasmic bliss', my first thought is 'what strategies can I employ to avoid getting fucked up and keep this a medical thing'.

 

[Chronicpain54]

If you had little to no tolerance to oxy then your dose was too high. I started on 10 mgs and had energy and happiness for hours. Higher doses would make you tired. I don't have a lot of experience with anything else you listed except Tramadol. I took 50 mgs 3x a day for 7 years and it was the best pain medicine I ever took, plus I had energy and felt normal. My doctor didn't want to prescribe it anymore and sent me to pain management.

Now I take a ton of medicines and energy is a thing of the past. Even lowering my dosages hasn't helped me. Is there a reason you don't want to take tramadol everyday? At the low dosage I was on I weaned off in less than a month and could have done it quicker but I simply took it until my script was empty (I was down to 25 mgs a day when I quit, but took that dose until the bottle was empty). I had no withdrawals of any kind. If they work best for you why not take 50 mgs 2x a day so you don't feel so off when you stop after 3 days?

 

[candidsurprise]

If you had little to no tolerance to oxy then your dose was too high. I started on 10 mgs and had energy and happiness for hours. Higher doses would make you tired. I don't have a lot of experience with anything else you listed except Tramadol. I took 50 mgs 3x a day for 7 years and it was the best pain medicine I ever took, plus I had energy and felt normal. My doctor didn't want to prescribe it anymore and sent me to pain management.

Now I take a ton of medicines and energy is a thing of the past. Even lowering my dosages hasn't helped me. Is there a reason you don't want to take tramadol everyday? At the low dosage I was on I weaned off in less than a month and could have done it quicker but I simply took it until my script was empty (I was down to 25 mgs a day when I quit, but took that dose until the bottle was empty). I had no withdrawals of any kind. If they work best for you why not take 50 mgs 2x a day so you don't feel so off when you stop after 3 days?

I tried lower doses of oxy too and again I got all the typical opioid effects bar any change in mood or happiness.

The main reason is because the antidepressant effects would stop working for me after 3 days of use. I trialled taking it more than that and the antidepressant effects stopped within a couple of days. If it worked consistently I would stay on it .

 

[Chronicpain54]

Oh...bummer. It's a shame that tramadol only works for 3 days.

Some people simply don't do well with oxycodone so I understand what you're saying.

I wish I could help. It sounds like you need help from some of our members that have tried all those medicines to see if any would work. Too bad you can't get hydrocodone because it's a little weaker than oxy and many people prefer it.

 

[candidsurprise]

Yeah, unfortunately I have no access to hydrocodone here in the UK. I wonder how very low doses of insufflated diamorphine (heroin) would work. I don’t buy into this business of heroin being the big bad drug that nobody can use safely. If this was unambiguously the case, the UK government wouldn’t use it medically over other opiates. Surely if the doses are low enough, you can create equivalent potency to some of the lighter opiates. Sure at recreational doses it’s worse than other opiates because of how rapidly it (or it’s metabolite, I can’t rememeber) reaches the brain. But surely you can decompensate for the effects of the rapidity by just lowering the dose a lot. It’s like with GHB v. GBL. GBL crosses the blood brain barrier faster than GHB, making it more euphoric and addictive than GHB. But by simply lowering the dose you can create a milder, less euphoric effect.

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

Opiates work at first but once you get a tolerance they don't do shit.

The reason heroin is the "big bad drug" is because you have no idea what purity you're getting on the street, or if you are even getting heroin at all. If we were talking about pure pharm grade diamorphine then i'd agree with you on heroin being overhyped. A lot of heroin right now is just fentanyl, i don't know if you know anything about fent but it's not a drug you should just shrug off as "just another opiate."

Fentanyl is much more potent then even pure heroin and doses in the microgram range can easily kill people. Stick to the pharmaceuticals if you want to try and pull this off.

 

[candidsurprise]

Opiates work at first but once you get a tolerance they don't do shit.

The reason heroin is the "big bad drug" is because you have no idea what purity you're getting on the street, or if you are even getting heroin at all. If we were talking about pure pharm grade diamorphine then i'd agree with you on heroin being overhyped. A lot of heroin right now is just fentanyl, i don't know if you know anything about fent but it's not a drug you should just shrug off as "just another opiate."

Fentanyl is much more potent then even pure heroin and doses in the microgram range can easily kill people. Stick to the pharmaceuticals if you want to try and pull this off.

Yeah fent’s the devil’s work I’m well aware, I’ve had a friend killed from a (suspected) fent cut. I’m a Muslim and it’s part of the religion to believe in criminalisation of drugs haha but this fent shit makes me think that this shit needs to be regulated somehow. It’s a tragedy.

As far as tolerance goes, I would stick to twice a week max and take month long breaks, and I’ve got memantine to help slow it down too.

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

A question that you should seriously consider when attempting this is, "If i break my rules for using will i stop using to prevent allout addiction?"

This is absolutely possible in theory but humans are flawed creatures and when you eventually slip up how far will you slip? No one, not even you can answer that.

I've used opiates to battle my depression for about 6 years now, i'd say they have definitely helped. I completely understand your motivation to use opiates and i know there isn't anything anyone could say that would stop you.

I just felt i needed to add that, good luck to you in moving forward with this.

 

[candidsurprise]

A question that you should seriously consider when attempting this is, "If i break my rules for using will i stop using to prevent allout addiction?"

This is absolutely possible in theory but humans are flawed creatures and when you eventually slip up how far will you slip? No one, not even you can answer that.

I've used opiates to battle my depression for about 6 years now, i'd say they have definitely helped. I completely understand your motivation to use opiates and i know there isn't anything anyone could say that would stop you.

I just felt i needed to add that, good luck to you in moving forward with this.

Naturally I would answer in the affirmative , but that of course says nothing about what I would say in the heat of the situation.

I went ahead and tried a low-moderate dose of heroin to see if it would offer an anti-depressant effect. Strangely, it did not and I didn’t enjoy the experience. It seems as if even opiates can’t touch my depression. What a joke. It must have been the serotonin aspect of Tramadol that did the trick. I may be forced to go back to stimulants and GHB.

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

Some people don't react well to morphine and it's related compounds like heroin and codeine. I'm in that group and whenever i take morphine, or codeine, in an equivalent amount to my usual hydrocodone dose i just end up feeling sick and not high in the slightest.

Definitely shy away from street heroin, it's just bad news in every regard. If you still plan on experimented i beckon you to find legitimate pharmaceuticals, at least they have a good safety profile.

I never had any luck with antidepressants and normally i would shun them, but have you considered trying an snri or atypical AD? I am guilty of not reading your entire post so i apologize if this has already been covered.

 

[Chris42393]

You stated "you're looking for advice on protecting myself". Ill give you the best advice i can. DONT TAKE THEM. Thats the best way to protect yourself.

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

^Thats not practical advice, no matter how effective it would be in practice

 

[candidsurprise]

Some people don't react well to morphine and it's related compounds like heroin and codeine. I'm in that group and whenever i take morphine, or codeine, in an equivalent amount to my usual hydrocodone dose i just end up feeling sick and not high in the slightest.

Definitely shy away from street heroin, it's just bad news in every regard. If you still plan on experimented i beckon you to find legitimate pharmaceuticals, at least they have a good safety profile.

I never had any luck with antidepressants and normally i would shun them, but have you considered trying an snri or atypical AD? I am guilty of not reading your entire post so i apologize if this has already been covered.

Neither heroin nor oxycodone worked for me .

I Wonder whether there’s any point in trying hydrocodone at this point. I’ve tried mirtazapine but I’ve never tried an SNRI. Mostly because I’m terrified of trying to come off , I have a big fear of becoming physically dependant on anything. The other reason is because I have chronic insomnia and I feel like any form of stimulant (AD or otherwise) would exacerbate my insomnia and really send me over the edge. My doc and I both feel as if my major depression is heavily linked to circadian rhythm dysfunction (I have a circadian rhythm disorder that basically makes me jet lagged all the time because it’s constantly shifting). Recent research is exposing the link between Circadian rhythm dysfunction and depression. So my doc doesn’t want me taking anything that is likely to intefere further with my sleep and I agree with him. Zoloft really fucked with my sleep and gave me insomnia. 1-2x per week stimulants were fine when I used them because I would just knock myself out with a benzo.

ive tried: tianeptine, sertraline, mirtazapine, ketamine, 5-HTP and seroquel . Seroquel made me suicidal. Sertraline did nothing bar side effects. Mirtazapine helped my insomnia but nothing for depression. 5-HTP worked a little, but quickly lost its efficacy so I take it around once a week as it gives me an instant boost. Tianeptine strangely improved my depression in the morning, but made me worse than baseline for the second half of the day (so no net improvement). Ketamine helps a lot but it’s hard to come by and I have to get it illegally.

I will never touch an anti-psychotic again after my experience with seroquel, but I want to try Lamictal (mood stabiliser) but my doc doesn’t believe it’s appropriate (and it’s tricky to get it prescribed for unipolar depression in them UK). We’re thinking about agomelatine, but that’s similar in action to mirtazapine and that did nothing, plus it’s extremely difficult to get on the nhs. I might bite the bullet and try an SNRI or bupropion but honestly at this point I’ve lost faith in psychiatric meds.

GHB has been by far the best anti-depressant I’ve used. I would say the same about methamphetamine but I really struggle on the comedown. Tramadol was amazing but the days afterward were unbearable. I’m going on try and get tapentadol

 

[Patrickforsterter]

If you have otc opioid products in your country use them and do a cold water extraction this will be pure and hence a lot lot safer than say heroin or shot off the street also a prescription can go a long way.

 

[candidsurprise]

If you have otc opioid products in your country use them and do a cold water extraction this will be pure and hence a lot lot safer than say heroin or shot off the street also a prescription can go a long way.

No need, even heroin is ineffective for my depression.

 

[westbank23]

Hi if you want to see the crap u have to go thru to get off opites then visit the sober living thread...im going on a month clean,started of taking 20mg hydrocodone on weekends to 20mg a day and then it escalated to 220mg A DAY of 30mg roxys just to feel normal..

You do what u want but just know that this is an expensive habbit...i was fortunate enough to jump off that train wreck before upgrading to herion..

Also once your tolerance builds up(oh and it will),you'll just be taking opiates just to feel normal..
I really think treating mental health issues with Opiates is a really bad ideal...

 

[candidsurprise]

Hi if you want to see the crap u have to go thru to get off opites then visit the sober living thread...im going on a month clean,started of taking 20mg hydrocodone on weekends to 20mg a day and then it escalated to 220mg A DAY of 30mg roxys just to feel normal..

You do what u want but just know that this is an expensive habbit...i was fortunate enough to jump off that train wreck before upgrading to herion..

Also once your tolerance builds up(oh and it will),you'll just be taking opiates just to feel normal..
I really think treating mental health issues with Opiates is a really bad ideal...

Hi. Unfortunately (or fortunately as the case may be), I don't seem to get any positive effects from pure opioids. Very little mood lift and euphoria. I wish I did get at least something from them, but perhaps its a good thing because of how addictive they are if you enjoy them. Shit sucks man, I can't feel good on barely any drugs. I'm starting to suspect it's probably the anti depressant I'm on blocking the effects.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

If you can really afford this habit it can be done but I'm gonna tell you right now your depression is going to be so unbelievably bad beyond words if you go through withdrawal (since you're already clinically depressed). Try to use kratom as well to stretch out and avoid pain killer withdrawals in between doses (imo)

And from what it looks like the anti-depression properties really only lasted for me 1 year before it ended up causing me permanent depression no matter what my dosage was. Something funky goes on with brain chemistry in longer term use but everyone can be different



You think you can set boundaries. You think you're more powerful than these pills.. but the stone cold reality is is that these pills are powerful af and have a mind of their own. They want to invade your life and every aspect of it and you will become addicted inevitably in the path you're taking. So few people on earth can actually moderate their usage after a certain period of time. If you're dead set on diagnosing your depression with opiates just know that it's highly likely that you will become addicted, so you're not caught off guard. No one deserves this lifestyle.. to wake up sick and do something illegal or legal but desperate to blast away what I know to be the worst expreince of my entire life. Opiate withdrawal IS SO BAD and I describe it as death. If you think you can limit it to two days a week and actually do throughout your life I'll give you my house lol! But good luck OP I just don't want you to not really understand what you're getting into before you commit to this. I don't think it'll work out well for you, and I don't mean that in a vindictive or arrogant way at all