Benzodiazepines with a long duration of action ?

[Captain.Heroin]

Xanax also has the added benefit of being the only alpha2-adrenergic agonist. That way when you start to feel like you are dying, rest assured. You are.

What?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

And xanax has antidepressant value. It doesn't take more than 10 mg for most people to feel some kind of withdrawal from it.

Again...what?

I once ate like 24mg in one dose. This was many years ago.

No wd.

I think some of you are just really sensitive to benzo dependency.

You have to take it for at least 2 to 3 weeks to be physically dependent on it. Similar to morphine and heroin.

Psychological dependence = much quicker.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

I might venture to suggest that your experience was the exceptional one..

For specificity, it was taken over time. 2-3 weeks, 10 mg total. Panic attacks for the first time ever shortly after stopping.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Fair enough but it makes me wonder why everyone doesn’t get addicted to benzos.

Even after drinking liquor 24/7 for a few weeks in a row wasn’t painful for me to stop at all.

 

[adder]

It may have something to do with genetic predisposition to have higher anxiety levels that some people get physically dependent on benzodiazepines much faster and experience withdrawal harder. In my experience triazolobenzodiazepines give more pronounced rebound anxiety after short-term treatment than classic benzodiazepines, it's hard for me to say if it's physical dependence or addiction at the point when you start noticing you feel like shit if you don't take it. It's definitely not just that triazolobenzodiazepines all are at best medium duration benzos but it certainly plays a huge part in it. They have a unique feeling to them that is discernible from the rest of effects no matter if it's alprazolam, estazolam, triazolam, etizolam, or brotizolam, I also took some triazolo's that didn't make it into the market and they did have this too. I did not take clonazolam, flunitrazolam or flubromazolam, but I would bet they have it too even if there are quantitative differences between them. I mean that super strong anxiolytic punch in the face with the relaxed feeling in the throat and sharp vision.

 

[Rio Fantastic]

Fair enough but it makes me wonder why everyone doesn’t get addicted to benzos.

Even after drinking liquor 24/7 for a few weeks in a row wasn’t painful for me to stop at all.

In the early days of your heroin use, did you not have the typical experience of being able to go weeks of daily using and stopping without withdrawals? I know I sure could. If you have never had a physical dependency on a substance, there's a kind of honeymoon period where you can use with impunity, but as soon as you have that first withdrawal the days of being able to use without a habit forming are gone forever. Why some people get hooked and some don't or the length of time it takes is just down to differences in physiology, but nobody is immune. Alcohol in particular seems to require very lengthy periods of excessive drinking before physical withdrawal stops, but I'm certain if you were to drink a handle or pop 20mg xanax every day for six months you would discover that you aren't immune to GABAergic addiction.

 

[Coolwhip]

In the early days of your heroin use, did you not have the typical experience of being able to go weeks of daily using and stopping without withdrawals? I know I sure could. If you have never had a physical dependency on a substance, there's a kind of honeymoon period where you can use with impunity, but as soon as you have that first withdrawal the days of being able to use without a habit forming are gone forever. Why some people get hooked and some don't or the length of time it takes is just down to differences in physiology, but nobody is immune. Alcohol in particular seems to require very lengthy periods of excessive drinking before physical withdrawal stops, but I'm certain if you were to drink a handle or pop 20mg xanax every day for six months you would discover that you aren't immune to GABAergic addiction.

QFT.


Something I wish someone would have drilled into me when I was still young and arrogant about my ability to handle large amounts of habit forming substances responsibly.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

As far as long acting non-triazolos go, whats not to like about good ol' fashioned nitrazepam? knows how to whack you over the head with a brick in all the best possible ways, and can go the distance too, reasonable potency, nothing somebody wearing a mask and gloves couldn't weigh out using a suitable scale without killing themselves or knocking themselves senseless.

And despite clubcard's evident dislike for nitrobenzodiazepines, they do have that something going for them that most benzos don't, IMO.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

In the early days of your heroin use, did you not have the typical experience of being able to go weeks of daily using and stopping without withdrawals? I know I sure could. If you have never had a physical dependency on a substance, there's a kind of honeymoon period where you can use with impunity, but as soon as you have that first withdrawal the days of being able to use without a habit forming are gone forever. Why some people get hooked and some don't or the length of time it takes is just down to differences in physiology, but nobody is immune. Alcohol in particular seems to require very lengthy periods of excessive drinking before physical withdrawal stops, but I'm certain if you were to drink a handle or pop 20mg xanax every day for six months you would discover that you aren't immune to GABAergic addiction.

No I immediately wanted to use it all the time. Was psychologically addicted almost instantly/after the first time. Was physically dependent after a week, had WD symptoms already.

The first time I did a non-heroin opiate I felt like it was the best feeling ever and knew to keep seeking it out.

The one time I ate that much Xanax about 5 years ago was to terminate a trip. Was not taking at all during that time.

I wouldn’t take more than 1mg for anxiety normally now.

 

[Prescottdave]

If someone has a history of BNZ dependency and then gets clean for say 3-18 months using just for 5 days is enough to bring back physical WD symptoms. There are a few studies done by the NIH which have documented this quick escalation in dependency. CH you are one of the exceptions. As far as alcohol from what I can see in my community it takes a lot longer to become physically dependent on booze compared to benzos. People can drink a few drinks every day for years and stop with only mild WD symptoms. If someone was to take benzos for a year and then stopped given the endless amount of peer reviewed studies they would be highly likely to experience WD symptoms. Like 95% of people would have a strong physical reaction from stopping. Ativan, alprazolam, etizolam clonazolam were all hellish to taper off of. Diazepam and librium have allowed me to get off heavy habits with "eaze" compared to the nightmare of quitting short acting BNZ's.

 

[clubcard]

Diclazepam by a large margin. Active metabolites cab ne detected 15 days after a single dose.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

For tapering more or less anything whatsoever, IMO, it is always desirable to use an agent with similar or identical mode of action but a long, sustained duration of effect, in order to be able to maintain steady-state plasma levels with only infrequent doses, short acting drugs that are rapidly eliminated result in a lot of peaks and troughs in plasma levels, basically bouncing one in and out of withdrawals, and making for things to be quite honestly, nightmarish in excess of what they would be were a properly suited detox substitute used.

With effects in cases of things like GBL/GHB physical dependency, or dependency on very short duration benzos, probably on alcohol too, being particularly problematic, due to the requirement for lots of sleep, and inability to dose WHILE asleep, being woken by convulsions is not a good thing, and it doesn't help one sleep even if under the peak required influence of the drug at the time of tapering, due to knowing you are going to be woken by a seizure. Not conducive to resting easy, even with a GABAergic depressant and anxiolytic acting on one.

Of all benzos, I'd particularly hate the prospect of dependency upon triazolam, or alprazolam, but especially triazolam, with its ultrapotent nature and ultrashort duration, reportedly sometimes causing very 'mild' threshold level physical WD after a SINGLE DOSE, which IMO is waaaay fucked up, and triazolam a drug that ought never to have seen the light of day once clinical trials had evaluated it.

Same with something like fentanyl, alfentanil, etc. Too short, too uncontrollable plasma levels excluding transdermal XR fentanyl, and the opposite is precisely what makes methadone such a perfect template pattern for an opioid maintainance or taper drug, the long half life and excellent oral BA make twice-daily dosing doable, with it sitting there, blocking WD, and being slowly, slowly dropped, with long intervals between drops to habituate the body to the new, lesser plasma steady state concentrations. (plus of course weak NMDA antagonism in methadone, as NMDA antagonists are IMO wonder-drugs for opioid discontinuation, launching a two-pronged assault against the black-hearted bastion of withdrawal, both physiological and psychological, helping squash cravings, as well as battering withdrawal into submission and retreat with tail 'twixt legs.)

Although, have to admit, in the case of methadone at least, it IS also very recreational, I fucking love the stuff, and when I get the chance, from my H source, I'll buy as many physeptone tabs as I can get hold of along with the 8th or occasionally quarter of gear, and they'll be gone within a weekend without a shadow of a doubt.

 

[white55]

Diazepam has long-lasting metabolites.


DocLad

It does however plasma concentration is biphaisc. When you take it it hits quick and strong and is then redistributed to your fat from where it's slowly released.

In the early days of your heroin use, did you not have the typical experience of being able to go weeks of daily using and stopping without withdrawals? I know I sure could. If you have never had a physical dependency on a substance, there's a kind of honeymoon period where you can use with impunity, but as soon as you have that first withdrawal the days of being able to use without a habit forming are gone forever. Why some people get hooked and some don't or the length of time it takes is just down to differences in physiology, but nobody is immune. Alcohol in particular seems to require very lengthy periods of excessive drinking before physical withdrawal stops, but I'm certain if you were to drink a handle or pop 20mg xanax every day for six months you would discover that you aren't immune to GABAergic addiction.

Genetics are wonderful. Why does someone look at a chocolate and get fat and someone else eats 5 pizzas a day and is 120kg 10%bf (ok in this case it's the tren var not genetics )

Personally I'm not really prone to gabaergic addiction/dependence/permatolerance after months of grams of flam, clam, nlam, fpam, .... I just stopped because tolerance was crazy (10mg flam for a slight buz). Felt completely fine, no seizures, cravings, increased anxiety, any more insomnia than naturally. But this is extremely rare. If you get even close get ready to slowly taper down. And 2-3 weeks later 2mg diazepam felt like a beer.... tbh I'm not complain but it is weird. On the other hand opis make me feel like shit.

I've been over this several times and it is no different than the first time.

Anyone reading - this is extremely rare, definitely taper.

Wouldn't say I'm completely imune but resistant enough for my use. After a few months it's stupid anyway since you don't even get drunk after 10-20 mg clam/flam and lots of vodka.

Flubromazepam/lam probably have the longest DoA's of any benzo's I've ever taken(not that I have sampled that much more than the most common fare). F-Lam is stupidly potent and hypnotic though, gotta be really careful with it and it doesn't have much utility beyond sleeping for 18 hours.

Wait. Fpam is decent enough for tapering not too strong last long, not extremely hypnotic. The lam is a beast and without medical supervision you're fuck your self.

Norflurazepam works to.

Diclazepam.

Phenazepam

N-methyl clonazepam...

Duration of action doesn't necessarily mean it's effective for your indication for that whole duration. Oh I guess you put that in the OP, but worth repeating.

Phenazepam is good for feeling zombified for 3 days (I used it a couple of times to just get through shitty days) and for me virtually no fun which is a good thing. It did actually work for a very long time, the tail end wasn't bullshit IIRC. I don't take benzos recreationally and I don't take them structurally anymore not for years. If you dose it normally and don't dose again for a very long time (like maybe 4-5 days) I don't think phenazepam is too dangerous but it's very dangerous when people do redose. It does have an elevated tendency for amnesia but so does e.g. alprazolam and a lot of other -lams.

Clonazepam is okay for duration but it wrecks my memory / attention. Does feel good.. I think it's one to be particularly careful with but it's hard to explain why.

Diazepam is a good all-round benzo with a fine duration especially it's metabolite nordazepam although it's effects seem to change and not for the better.

I would stay the fuck away from flubromazolam, it's the only drug I've ever submitted to a lab for destruction.. way too strong if you don't have a big tolerance and if you do have a tolerance it would be bad to raise that tolerance immensely with it.

Flubromazepam was okay and I slept well on it and felt it the next day but it's not better or safer feeling than diazepam.

To me phenazepam actually seems good to do a methadone like program with if you can control yourself. It revolves all around whether you actually accept that there won't be any feeling comfortable - just "ok".. maintenance.

Horrible things happen when people start trying to force something which is not satisfying to try to get that satisfaction anyway. It's not how a lot of drugs work and instead you can get very bad problems. Still people do this when dependent for complicated reasons. So you'd have to be crystal clear on what the fuck you are actually trying to accomplish with the benzo you take.

Isn't meclonazepam long lasting by the way? I seem to remember that (I have it and tried it). It's also a benzo which in one aspect disappoints but does the job. It's not really that pleasant compared to most benzos and seems dull. But it can be used to ones advantage. No idea how safe it actually is. But it should be lightyears safer than shit like flubromazolam or clonitrazolam or flunitrazolam etc (granted I have not tried them all but seriously I warn you to stay away from the ones that people say are strong and feel good, as strange as that may sound).

I sometimes take etizolam, just occasionally a mg.. but I am so glad that I don't have the affliction anymore of seeking some solution in taking benzos daily/structurally. Reasons for use and abuse can be deceptively complicated and in my opinion so can the choice for a particular benzo.

Yes, the balanced ones work best for tapering. Diazepam is definitely great for tapering and feel nice to


Phenazepam should work fine if you dose low although I haven't tested.

Clonazepam/n-methyl cpam should be fine. Yes meconazepam should work as well as the other clonazepams but isn't very cost effective.

Do people really taper with the ultrapotent ones like flap/flam/clam/fnlam/plam?? Unless you need something right now to prevent a seizure dont tak them.

Imo deschloro etizolam or metizolam wold be even better thanks to the duration,

You didn't mention norflurazepam which is good to.

Why did you destroy the flam? I could never bring my self to do it... jut not take it anymorre. When you have a bit of tolerance (idk... 5mg iis nice but far from a blackout.

No, midazolam has a half life of about 2 hours.

And shitty orall bioavailability vs snorted...