• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand

just found study specifically linking ketamine to cortical decay ;( sad day

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with anyone here taking or not taking drugs, nor do I disagree with the rest of your post.

It's just that...after reading quite a number of Sekio's posts over the years it's pretty obvious his interest is beyond academic and for him to acquire the um, intimate knowledge he has concerning many facets of drug use/abuse without himself partaking I think would border on pathological.

There are just some things that are very hard to know/describe without experiencing them first hand, things that have little to do with academia, research, or even harm reduction. And for someone to be able to recount so many them in such accurate detail they have either experienced it, or spent an unhealthy amount of time imagining it.

edit: to be less abstract, its very rare for Sekio to come straight out and directly talk about ingesting drugs, as you say its not necessary to contribute positively to this community, but this is hardly the first time he has made allusions to it, many of which are hilariously accurate and I wouldn't expect them to come from someone who hadn't experienced it themselves.

Quiet, there are no bad interpretations. :)
I did not want to turn this into a thread about Sekio, it's ridiculous. Although it is evident that it has served as an example for some thoughts.

Unfortunately my language is not in English and the translator is not the best method to interpret ironies, metaphors and abstract phrases.
I hope you excuse me if sometimes my words seem idiotic or are out of place, no doubt the language is a barrier, but I know that in the end we end up understanding.


DocLad
 
No you're totally right, I can be a little long winded, sorry for that. I absolutely did not mean to offend, or to suggest you should have picked up on anything I mentioned above, was just sharing what I have perceived and nothing more. I can see how using words like "obvious" and "hardly" could be interpreted negatively and carry strong connotations, especially for a non native speaker, but I assure you I did not intend for them to be taken in such a way. If anything I just wanted to strongly express that i don't think either taking or abstaining from drugs changes the value of ones contributions here and I did not mean to imply such a thing with my original post.

And I think you do a wonderful job of communicating in English, although I imagine it can be quite a challenge sometimes, I am always in awe of anyone who can communicate in multiple languages(translator or no), especially when discussing such complex topics as found on this forum.

Apologies to everyone for going off topic, or drawing any unwanted attention to any poster here.

Speaking of which, what I would really like to see are some imaging studies done on long term users of ketamine who have only dosed intermittently and not daily for years.
 
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yeh so how about discussing ketamine as means to help with depression then. can it also be brain damaging or what? from what i learned calling those ketamine clinics, it takes like 6-7 visits and they IV ketamine in you. so thats like around 7 doses of IV ketamine, what kind of damage can that cause? and is ketamine reliable enough to ever be released to the public as antidepressant or not??
 
From what I know, those doses are threshold doses, administered through a drip to maintain low levels for a certain length of time, so I highly doubt they are doing any damage, especially not through one treatment run, but it would be a worthwhile endeavor to find someone who has been receiving them an a regular basis for years and scan their brain.

As for your last question, ketamine clinics have become fairly common place, considering the interest the treatment garnered I am surprised ketamine nasal sprays haven't taken off, but I wonder that is because the nasal sprays aren't as effective or because no one wants to send a patient home with a bottle full of ketamine(although you would think the total amount would barely be enough for one recreational session). Maybe the nasal spray protocol could be altered to mirror a drip? One spray every 15-30 minutes for whatever length of time would deliver optimal results?

And obviously this is probably cost-prohibitive, but what about a ketamine patch? Applied once every two weeks?

I am operating under the idea that the infusion needs to last for a certain amount of time, longer than ketamines half life, but levels can't ever get too high, so it has to be continually reintroduced into the bloodstream somehow, this may not be correct.

You would think it would at least find acceptance as a way to begin treatment, while other drugs take effect, but it seems like people only turn to it when nothing else has worked.
 
does this neurotoxicity apply to all NMDA antagonists/negative allosteric modulators??

right now which is the safest NMDA antagonists/negative allosteric modulators known to the scientific community?
 
Memantine maybe? Although if you are talking about recreational doses I don't think anyone can answer that question, I wouldn't count on being able to take chronic, high doses of any NMDA antagonist that results in recreational dissociation a la ketamine or PCP.
 
Well would memantine be any different ?

Is PCP any different?(in less chance of neuron damage)
 
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