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Thread: Avoiding meat and dairy is ?single biggest way? to reduce your impact on Earth

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    #26
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    At least the cannibal was from Germany, as opposed to Texas or Florida.
    Am I the only one that thinks a lot of weird stuff goes down in those two states?

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    OT: In my teens/early twenties, I was a strict vegan and then vegetarian in a place that supported those diets at v reasonable prices.

    I couldn't get enough protein to sustain my weight, even with the kind advice of fellow vegetarian/vegans and loads of research. It just wasn't possible.

    I had to eat meat and it made me a bit ill (presumably psychosomatically) for awhile.

    Then I was in Europe and it was hard to not eat all the tasty things!

    I wish I could be a vegan -- maybe I would still really like cheese and pastry and a few meat things occasionally... okay mostly vegetarian. That is my preference.

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    With regard to "killing food", I have done it, more fishing than hunting (frankly because the hunting starts soooo early). I've hunted deer, boar and fox.

    I learned to hunt from people who killed the animals quickly and cleanly-- with one exception on a traditional fox hunt-- yeesh, I watched as the animals were butchered, all the parts of the animals were used, and "extra" meat was given to local people in need. I am grateful to have learned from people like that and not safari hunter types.

    They were also excellent shots and insisted that I really bone up on shooting and horseback riding for the fox and boar. Ugh. Unlikely to happen again anytime soon.

    I think it's good to know where meat comes from, although I wasn't in a situation where the animals were artificially super-crowded or caged for mass consumption. That is barbaric.

    Hunting to prevent overpopulation is a good thing, although I am not sure if the idea is overused. (Maybe too many humans...)

    Oh and I milked cows too. Cows are v cool.

    ---------

    In German, 'das Fleisch' means meat or flesh. It's important to remember that meat doesn't come ground in shrink-wrapped packages or in filets. It's the flesh of an animal.

    Some hapless American was probably conned into catching that big tuna and then having to club it to death while a boat full of guys laughed at her until she caught the biggest fish of the day and they realized they could suck it. But I digress.

    All that being said, many Americans don't have the opportunity or skill to hunt. It's difficult to imagine a way to educate them, because there really isn't anything that replaces the act of tracking, stalking, and killing.
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    #27
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    Vegan is very hard... I did it for a year, then vegetarian for most of my meth use... I actually maintained a pretty healthy weight, but I was eating literally all of the time, fruit, nuts, protein shakes, and alot of greens.

    Honestly I think you're culpability is higher if you aren't killing your own meat... when you do you aren't contributing to the awful practices used in these meat mills.
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    #28
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    Yes, but hunting isn't something everyone can do. It's odd, but it's a luxury for many people, particularly the urban poor.

    That being said it's awful to let animals live the way they do for mass consumption of milk, meat, or eggs.

    And I don't think I can get enough protein through plants. I'm not sure if it's a metabolic thing or a sheer volume of food needed to be consumed or the fact that I have never really had a big appetite. I don't have an eating disorder or anything, luckily, but I simply can't eat that much.

    Fresh fish or venison or a few other things I'll refrain from mentioning are sooooo good fresh. Yummy.

    It's expensive to eat in a healthy way, I find. No?
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    #29
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    Yeah it's expensive, by design I believe, there's more money in the unhealthy masses. Growing up where I did, I've definitely taken the hunting and fishing for granted, I know friends of mine from the city have never been.

    I definitely understand what you're saying about the protein thing (almonds are an amazing source)... like I said, i literally had to eat constantly to look healthy on meth, I got sick and lost 34lbs in like 3 days on the shit once...
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    #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bptubbs View Post
    Vegan is very hard... I did it for a year, then vegetarian for most of my meth use... I actually maintained a pretty healthy weight, but I was eating literally all of the time, fruit, nuts, protein shakes, and alot of greens.
    You think so?
    For me it was really easy, but i've been vegetarian for much longer than i ate meat.
    But i never found a vegan diet difficult to maintain. I guess it's more if an adjustment if you go from being an omnivore to being vegan, but i know vegan bodybuilders who do perfectly well on a plant-based diet.
    I think it's a matter of adjustment.
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    #31
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    I like cheese too much lol. I did the vegetarian thing for about 2 years, but I don't have the means to maintain that atm... Will most likely go back to that when my living situation changes.
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    #32
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    I used to love cheese too, but since i cut dairy, all milk derived food tastes really bad to me.
    When i'm consuming dairy products, it seems normal to do so, but when i stopped, the taste of milk reminds me of vomit!

    I got a coffee recently, and they mixed my order up. As soon as i tasted that it had milk, it made me feel ill.
    It's interesting, i guess, because i used to consider milk to be a "normal" part of my diet - but now that it isn't, it is difficult to stomach.
    Things can become normalised pretty easily to us, but they can also become de-normalised, at which point, consuming the lactated products of animal milk seems pretty weird.
    Ymmv, but that's where i'm at, at this point

    Certainly the enviromental impact of eating animal products is pretty dire - that is without question.
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    #33
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    Indeed... a strange paradox mine was lol, super healthy eating and hygiene, along with regular exercise... and then heavy meth use.

    I can eat beef, chicken is very iffy, I don't mind fish really at all, but has to be wild, pork makes me physically sick, worse than I've ever been in fact... don't know why.
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    #34
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    Yeah, i was the same when i last ate meat. Chicken and pork always grossed me out. Lamb too.

    I really dislike faux-meat as well, and i've never understood the appeal, because i have never missed eating meat...not once.
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    #35
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    I like lamb... a little too much I'd say, can't eat it very often or I'll never be able to go back vegetarian lol.
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    #36
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    ^ exactly tubbs, when I have the cheddar, I'll give up the meat!

    SJ: Same with me that meat, dairy, etc. tasted awful when I went back to eating them. Amazingly so.

    When I'm flush, I want to try an intelligent superfood diet and supplements. A lot of things are marketing, but some of it isn't.

    I will probably get down to fish and then stop with animal protein.
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    #37
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    My hopes are blighted, my heart is broken, my life a burden, everything around me is sad and mournful; earth has become distasteful to me, and human voices distract me. It is mercy to let me die, for if I live I shall lose my reason and become mad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RDP89 View Post
    80 billion?? Lol, there's no way it's making it there. It'll be completely unsustainable long before then and people will start warring and killing each other off.


    Imagine the high estimate as it continues for a few more hundred years beyond 2100.

    Likely, you are correct that it won't reach 80 billion. Something catastrophic will likely occur.
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    #38
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    The logic in the article is mindbogglingly dumb.
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    #39
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    unless we switch to regenerative farming practices and stop using most of the arable land in the world to feed livestock instead of people, we are truly fucked, because we just throw the two most valuable ressources, namely soil and water, out of the window. yet this issue gets hardly any public attention, even though it is a big factor in climate change as well. in the meantime, conventional ag will plow away and keep on destroying the soil we desperately need to grow our food on. regenerative ag can even fixate carbon in the soil and it is probably the sector with the most potential in putting carbon back into the ground and out of the atmosphere, but the conventional mode (and I include most "organic" farming here) does the exact opposite.

    I am not a vegetarian and I don't think humanity needs to completely abolish meat eating, but what we do now with most of our livestock is unsustainable and also cruel from a moral standpoint.
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    #40
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    You actually don't need soil to grow crops. Tomatoes and other crops can be grown on a soil-less substrate. Netherlands has done lots of work and research into this.

    National Geographic did an article on it some time last year-ish.
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    #41
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    Yeah, same as you can grow cannabis hydro , but you still need to produce the nutrients then, and synthesizing ammonia via haber Bosch is extremely energy consuming and rock phosphate will become very scarce in the future. Besides that, you will never get to that size of production to produce grains, potatoes etc. to actually feed anyone.

    Greens and fruit vegetables it is more reasonable, but it will never be really sustainable in my opinion.
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    #42
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    Hi Bagseed,

    I don't know as much about regenerative farming as I would like, but I do know farming practices are driven by a number of forces that have nothing to do with feeding people or livestock... for me this is an overpopulation issue, but I am curious about the principles of regenerative farming.

    If you could just put up a few points that would be great.
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    #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagseed View Post
    Yeah, same as you can grow cannabis hydro , but you still need to produce the nutrients then, and synthesizing ammonia via haber Bosch is extremely energy consuming and rock phosphate will become very scarce in the future. Besides that, you will never get to that size of production to produce grains, potatoes etc. to actually feed anyone.

    Greens and fruit vegetables it is more reasonable, but it will never be really sustainable in my opinion.
    Potatoes are another as well they were doing. It was a really great article, I suggest you read into it. It's the future of food production, and will help local communities support their needs in areas without arable land.

    I would dig it up but I'm having a bad day and am doing my best to chill.
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    #44
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    cduggles, this talk is a pretty good introduction in my opinion, if you have some time to spend... pretty long but full of interesting information regarding organic no-till, rotational grazing of livestock, to build organic matter and biological diversity in the soil to improve drought resistance, and give less room for disease and pests.


    the basic principles are the following:
    never till your soil
    allow the soil microbiology (especially bacteria and fungi) to build up and thrive
    allow for earthworms and other small animals to do their deed as undisturbed as possible
    build up your soil organic matter (fixate CO2) and fixate nitrogen by implementing cover crops and green manure (legumes will fixate nitrogen out of the air in symbiosis with bacteria)
    higher soil organic matter means higher water infiltration rates which means rainwater is more effective in keeping the soil moist
    never let your soil be exposed to the sun and wind to approximately eliminate erosion and for temperature control (soil mustn't be too hot for optimal plant growth)

    I hope that helps.

    captain heroin, yeah it might well be possible, but you need to consider the complexity of the subject. NPK isn't everything a plant needs, and there are also loads of micronutrients they need to thrive, just as any other living being on earth. if you go full on inorganic medium, you need to supply all those in your nutrient solution in the right amounts, and all that stuff needs to be mined and processed somewhere. sure, the status quo is similar, because we keep on destroying soil ecology and thus need to put in all these fertilizers, but especially phosphate will become a big problem as the ressources being mined get smaller and smaller. also the question is if a plant grown in sterile medium with only the bare minimum of nutrients arificially supplied will produce nutrient dense food. if going no soil farming means that we need to eat more supplements regarding vitamins and elements, I'd rather say no thanks and enjoy my tasty and healthy food grown on good old soil.

    and as long as the energy needed for such high tech systems doesn't come from completely renewable ressources (or nuclear if you will, but that brings a whole other bag of issues), growing food under lightbulbs would be certainly unsustainable from a climate perspective.

    as many point out, if we wouldn't waste so much space on producing livestock feed to keep up this insane level of meat consumption, there would be more than enough land to feed the future generations.
    Last edited by Bagseed; 19-06-2018 at 14:16.
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