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    MH17: Investigators confirm Russian missile was used to shoot down plane 
    #1
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    A very interesting case, this one. I'm sure we have some expert theorists out there ready to expound

    MH17: Investigators confirm Russian missile was used to shoot down plane



    Investigators on the hunt for those responsible for downing Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 over Ukraine are now convinced the Russian military played a pivotal role in providing the deadly missile.

    This is the first time the official investigators have named the Russian Federation's 53rd anti-aircraft missile brigade based in Kursk.

    At a briefing in the Netherlands, the Joint Investigation Team (JIT), which includes Australian officers, showed video and pictures of the path taken by the truck transporting the missile across the border.

    Wilbert Paulissen, the head of the National Crime Squad of the National Police of the Netherlands, said the JIT wanted witnesses to urgently come forward.

    "We are looking for people who were directly involved," he said.

    "We have four questions ? who was part of the team, what instructions where they given and by whom.

    "Also who was responsible for the operational deployment.

    "And finally, who can provide us with most information about the procedures in this brigade?" Mr Paulissen said.

    He said they were convinced family, friends or acquaintances would have the answers.
    -Read more.
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    Damn that's a big deal. Thanks for posting this got no play in the mainstream media
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    #3
    What's the motive for Putin to do this?

    A theory based on intel from my sources:
    Mossad planted a bomb on the plane at Schipol.
    They were supposed to wait until it was deeper into Russian territory but instead detonated prematurely closer to the Ukrainian border.
    The plane did veer off-course (why?)

    The motive being to stoke the flames of war and further demonize Putin's Russia (while simultaneously distracting from what was happening at the time in Gaza)
    Also why I'm inclined to believe it was our favorite spies the Mossad who sloppily poisoned Sergei Skripal in the UK, also done to put the blame on Russia.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGrimez View Post
    What's the motive for Putin to do this?

    A theory based on intel from my sources:
    Mossad planted a bomb on the plane at Schipol.
    They were supposed to wait until it was deeper into Russian territory but instead detonated prematurely closer to the Ukrainian border.
    The plane did veer off-course (why?)

    The motive being to stoke the flames of war and further demonize Putin's Russia (while simultaneously distracting from what was happening at the time in Gaza)
    Also why I'm inclined to believe it was our favorite spies the Mossad who sloppily poisoned Sergei Skripal in the UK, also done to put the blame on Russia.
    Always with the conspiracies. Love that it's possible for mossad to fuck up killing skripal but the idea that Russia shot that plane out of the sky by mistake is too hard to believe. He had to have done it on purpose or it didn't happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JessFR View Post
    Always with the conspiracies. Love that it's possible for mossad to fuck up killing skripal but the idea that Russia shot that plane out of the sky by mistake is too hard to believe. He had to have done it on purpose or it didn't happen.
    This attack by nature was a conspiracy. The meaning of conspiracy is when 2 or more people conspire to conduct an operation. All we're doing is speculating as to who's responsible. How much do you know about the Mossad anyway?

    In the Skripal case, anyone familiar with Novichok wouldn't have used it in the rain as it doesn't work in damp environments.
    If the FSB wanted him dead he would be dead and they wouldn't have been stupid enough to use such an obvious nerve agent that is linked to their country of origin. That's not how assassins work. That's what people do that want to frame another country.

    MH17: Shot the plane out the sky by mistake? How does that happen by mistake? Were they aiming for a bird that was flying alongside it?
    So I was going to ask, if you're sure it was Russian government that hit the plane then what's the motive? But I guess your explanation is that it was an accident. These things don't happen by accident.
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    Yes, these things absolutely happen by accident. It's not like Hollywood where there some shit that flashes on a high tech screen somewhere on the weapon that says "warning: civilian passenger jet" on it.

    And yes I'm very familiar with mossad. And I've had this argument before, and I'm pretty sure with you specifically before. So I dunno why you'd use this stupid argument yet again. Russia WANTED people to know they did it. Which utterly destroys everything about your argument that assumes they'd be trying to keep it beyond the barest of deniability.

    And I've DEFINITELY has this argument with you before... Something might meet the dictionary meaning of a conspiracy, but that's not how I'm using the word. I'm using it to mean conspiracy theorist type conspiracies, the kind of nuts who believe in grand overly complex conspiracies with little or no evidence accepted by the experts. Ive already explained that at length to you in a previous post.

    People who always, almost without exception, believe that absolutely every notable public political event or controversy or tragedy never just happened the way its portrayed in the mainstream. But ALWAYS a lie to the people covering up something cartoonishly evil and elaborate.
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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by JessFR View Post
    Yes, these things absolutely happen by accident.
    No not really. Are you saying the Russian military thought it was a fighter jet?
    Their technology is quite good these days.

    Quote Originally Posted by JessFR View Post
    And yes I'm very familiar with mossad.
    I question this

    Quote Originally Posted by JessFR View Post
    Russia WANTED people to know they did it.
    Again though why? That's not really a motive. These are serious attacks and acts of war.
    So you think that the government of Russia can act totally reckless and murderous, yet the government of Israel (or the US/UK) cannot.
    Shit happens for a reason more often than not. Even if it was an accident there still has to be a coherent explanation.

    Quote Originally Posted by JessFR View Post
    the kind of nuts who believe in grand overly complex conspiracies with little or no evidence accepted by the experts.
    Didn't realize planting a bomb on a plane was an overly complex plan.
    I made it clear that I was speculating based on information I've received.
    This is how you should reply to my posts:
    "I think that your theory is shit because (insert better theory)"

    Quote Originally Posted by JessFR View Post
    People who always, almost without exception, believe that absolutely every notable public political event or controversy or tragedy never just happened the way its portrayed in the mainstream. But ALWAYS a lie to the people covering up something cartoonishly evil and elaborate.
    They're just as bad as the people who ignore that there are some groups that actively want to instigate a war.
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    #8
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    The Russians thought it was a Ukrainian military transport plane. They had already shot down a few of them before the accident
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGrimez View Post
    No not really. Are you saying the Russian military thought it was a fighter jet?
    Their technology is quite good these days.

    I question this

    Again though why? That's not really a motive. These are serious attacks and acts of war.
    So you think that the government of Russia can act totally reckless and murderous, yet the government of Israel (or the US/UK) cannot.
    Shit happens for a reason more often than not. Even if it was an accident there still has to be a coherent explanation.


    Didn't realize planting a bomb on a plane was an overly complex plan.
    I made it clear that I was speculating based on information I've received.
    This is how you should reply to my posts:
    "I think that your theory is shit because (insert better theory)"


    They're just as bad as the people who ignore that there are some groups that actively want to instigate a war.
    I never said mossad was above doing something like this. You pulled that suggestion out of your ass. What I said was that in this case there's no evidence of that or reason to believe it.

    Honestly man, I'm done, I've had enough. Arguing with you is such a waste of time and I'm stupid to have ever tried. I should know better than to argue with conspiracy theorists by now. And that's my bad, truly, I'm sorry for bringing this shit up. In future I'm just gonna ignore any conspiracy theory rantings. Not saying I'm gonna ignore you, just that I've had enough with the conspiracies.
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by cj View Post
    The Russians thought it was a Ukrainian military transport plane. They had already shot down a few of them before the accident
    Sure this is a plausible explanation. Would be nice to see some evidence though.
    Do you have a source for Russians previously shooting down these planes?

    Quote Originally Posted by JessFR View Post
    I should know better than to argue with conspiracy theorists by now. And that's my bad, truly, I'm sorry for bringing this shit up. In future I'm just gonna ignore any conspiracy theory rantings. Not saying I'm gonna ignore you, just that I've had enough with the conspiracies.
    Like I've stated, your opinion on what you label 'conspiracy theorists', or decide that I am one, is irrelevant.
    If you wish to reply the template should be:
    "I disagree with your theory because (insert reasons) and (insert better theory)"
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    #11
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    Nah, I'd rather just call it stupid conspiracy bs and leave it there.

    But, since I was curious myself, https://www.webcitation.org/6cFSGnsR...7-crash-en.pdf

    It's around page 183. Lots of stuff referring to other planes shot down. This is why I'm burnt out arguing with you by the way. Because it's becomes very clear that you only really do research in a biased way. You frequently demonstrate ignorance of alternative points of view. Or rather, you demonstrate ignorance of the accepted point of view. Showing only significant knowledge of the conspiracy theory.

    Which makes total sense because conspiracy theorists always do it this way. They only focus on what interests them, unraveling their imaginary conspiracy. So they always know only a very basic version of the accepted story. Just enough to feel they've discredited it and owe it no further time. Their knowledge of the mainstream, accepted, and generally correct version of events is usually no more than what they've heard in the course of youtube videos and extremist websites describing it in the form of "the mainstream media would have us believe X, but..".
    Last edited by JessFR; 26-05-2018 at 07:07.
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    #12
    In that case, best not to reply to my posts at all.
    That's considered an insult which is against the rules.
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    #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGrimez View Post
    In that case, best not to reply to my posts at all.
    That's considered an insult which is against the rules.
    Fortunately for me your interpretation of the rules isn't particularly relevant. But if you want to report me, that's totally your right and we can let someone in authority make that call. But it's not yours to make.

    I do agree though that it would probably be best for everyone if I just largely ignored your conspiracy theories from here on. And I'm happy to do that.
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    #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGrimez View Post
    In that case, best not to reply to my posts at all.
    That's considered an insult which is against the rules.
    Please try to exhibit a basic understanding of the rules before telling others what they are.

    Fwiw, its fair game to make whatever criticism one wants of another's argument. Its ad homs that we don't like all that much. .
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    #15
    Well there is heavy bias in this forum, but just so you know obsessively and continuously labeling someone a conspiracy theorist is the definition of an ad hom.
    Unfortunately it's gotten to the point where insulting me is normalized.
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    #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGrimez View Post
    Well there is heavy bias in this forum, but just so you know obsessively and continuously labeling someone a conspiracy theorist is the definition of an ad hom.
    Unfortunately it's gotten to the point where insulting me is normalized.
    Again, your definition is irrelevant. But, if your position is that you know the bluelight admins are biased against you, then why would you tell me I was breaking the rules as if I should stop for that reason? In your mind was it supposed to be a bluff?

    I would hardly call anything I've said to you obsessive. And simple fact is you DO act like a conspiracy theorist. I can't think of almost any major public event for which there's a conspiracy where you haven't expressed general agreement with the existence of that conspiracy.

    If you find my saying you act like a conspiracy theorist insulting, that's your problem. I haven't ever said that YOU are stupid. I've said you promote conspiracy theories which I find stupid. Big difference. And in actual fact, I don't think your stupid. And hey, even if I completely disagree, I think you have every right to express your belief in these conspiracies here. Much as I find it frustrating.
    Last edited by JessFR; 26-05-2018 at 12:18.
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    #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGrimez View Post
    Well there is heavy bias in this forum, but just so you know obsessively and continuously labeling someone a conspiracy theorist is the definition of an ad hom.
    Unfortunately it's gotten to the point where insulting me is normalized.
    Im sorry mate. Yes it appears that way and hope you dont buy into it. Not everyone here is like that. I appreciate your perspectives and your contribution is a good read, don't feel you have to conform to the norm here we are a bunch of druggies at the end of the day who are alienated enough as it is.

    I recall the release of an audio tape beyween the ppl who shot the plane down and a higher up the ranks person but dont recall who those ppl were but the shooters were Ukraine separatists and the other was Russian.

    It was a mistake. An error. The flight path of the Malaysian Air didnt avoid the war torn area where it was downed like other flight paths of other airlines.

    Qantas does not fly over areas of conflict. Neither do other airlines.

    The way around adds to costs. Maylaysian air already has lost a plane due to supposed pilot suicide and cant afford more costs.

    It was an accident, an unintentional downing of a passenger craft in a war torn area.

    The onus is on Malaysian air to keep their planes safe and avoid areas of conflict.

    The Russians are not responsible as it was not them. It was the Ukraine separatists who are not Russian.

    It was not the Ukraine as it was Russian separatists.

    So no one will claim responsibility for an accident.

    Malaysian Air knew to avoid the area but didnt and it cost lives.

    Blame them if anyone.
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    #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGrimez View Post
    Well there is heavy bias in this forum, but just so you know obsessively and continuously labeling someone a conspiracy theorist is the definition of an ad hom.
    Unfortunately it's gotten to the point where insulting me is normalized.
    If it were so common, I would expect reported posts from you. I really barely recall any.

    I think you're exaggerating tbh.
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    #19
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    I've sometimes wondered how often posts get reported around bluelight. And especially how common it might be compared to other forums.

    I've wondered if it's at all less common on bluelight than other forums because we're a drug forum and might be less inclined overall to report people to "Tha man" .

    Speaking for myself, it has to be pretty bad before I'll report someone's post.
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    #20
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    Yeah but "the man" in this case is just fellow drug users. I get your point though.
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    #21
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    It's weird how some people think seem to think it is some kind of anti-authority stance to disrupt a website run for - and largely by - drug users to help educate and reduce the incidence of harm in our community.

    I guess it makes them feel like bad asses - which is funny, to me, because i think it's the other way around.

    there isn't anything edgy about misogyny or racism, and if it is an affront to one's sensibilities to be restricted from spouting bigotry, that person is in the wrong place.

    Quote Originally Posted by JGrimez View Post
    Well there is heavy bias in this forum, but just so you know obsessively and continuously labeling someone a conspiracy theorist is the definition of an ad hom.
    if there is a bias on bluelight against "obsessively and continuously" posting unsubstantiated conspiracy theories in the current events and politics subforum, i don't see a problem with that.

    Conspiracy theories are a class of speculative discussion which can be tolerated in political discussions if they follow the sort of standards expected of "serious political discussions".

    If you don't like bluelight's culture or ideological foundation, one must wonder what has prompted you to post here as prolifically as you have in the four months since you registered an account. You've made 670 posts in that time - which is more than 5 per day. the overwhelming majority of these have been in this subforum.
    I post a lot, and i would say you are an unquestionably prolific poster.
    having diverse opinions represented in this section is a wonderful thing, but if you're going to make a fuss about people disagreeing with you, it does beg the question - if you don't want to discuus

    Bias towards evidence-based analysis is a good thing in my opinion. It holds discussion to a higher standard, and we don't get bogged down in the sort of ridiculous fantasy that is all too common online these days.

    If you find it insulting to be called a conspiracy theorist, the obvious solution is to stop peddling conspiracy theories.

    You've become highly critical of the people that post in, and moderate, this section of the site for calling you out on various things you are saying. so if their posts are within the terms of the the forum guidelines and user agreement, that is perfectly acceptable.
    This is a forum for discussion and debate.

    Complaining about bias is extremely disingenuous. You are obliged to post within the terms of the forum guidelines - we all are.
    this has been made very clear to you, and you've been given the benefit of the doubt on a number of occasions.

    you can accept the expectations of the user agreement and abide by the simple guidelines of the forum, and the bluelight community will accept you as one of us.

    on the other hand, if you post incendiary content which is in breach the user agreement, the moderators will be obliged to infract you.
    this forum is not an ideological battleground for political extremists hostile to our ideological foundations or our members.
    we are run entirely by volunteers and i have any interest in watching people waste our time or abuse our goodwill.

    i think the mods in this section have been extremely generous with you, and tried very hard to encourage you to engage in a positive way. if you would like to clear up any misunderstanding about your agenda here, i would suggest demonstrating it by posting sincerely and without the frequent digs at staff and other regular posters.

    the whole point of this section is for bluelighters to have a place to discuss politics and topical subjects. it is impossible to do that properly if people treat it like a dumping ground for fringe politics, far-right conspiracy theories and propaganda without engaging with other posters sincerely and critically in the discussion that follows.

    all of these points have been made before, but i'm hoping to make it very clear to you that your future participation here is entirely up to you.
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