Hey guys. I have taken mathadone for around 7 yes and just recently have had a lighter effect from it? It used to help with my back pain and also give me that euphoria to help relax my tension enough nto help me rest. Well I've always been on a oral dose of 60 to 70 mg a day and it does help me still but only 50% of the time. It's weird... not sure why it went from 100 to 50% after 7 yes and it happened instantly. The only thing that has changed with my health is that I have been under tremendous stress and my check and heart feel overworked because of it...could that effect the medicine? Anyways...My doctor has offered a switch to another medicine and they mentioned Morphine. I'm not wanting to go backwards and worsen my self and need some advice. Will Morphine give me a better reaction? Am I better off staying where I'm at? Is my Stress and Anxiety Levels making the methadone work less effectivly at time? Thanks for taking your time to help
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Morphine? Methadone?
- Thread starter Ocd_Me
- Start date
Chronicpain54
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No one has answered you so I wanted to just give my .02$
At your current dose of Methadone you would need a large amount of morphine to keep the pain and withdrawal away. Morphine has a pathetically low BA versus Methadone. I found that morphine ER really sucked for me and being put on Methadone took away the pain and stopped the cycle of daily withdrawal I had with morphine.
By my own pain specialists chart Methadone is considered 8 times stronger, per milligram, than morphine. This was a published study to help doctors decide what strength to give patients when switching from any opiate/opiod to any other opiate/opiod. Now take into account how little of the morphine your body can use (I think it's 30%, but you can look it up on the charts here) and you can see the problem.
So 60 to 70 mgs of Methadone might require 300 mgs or more of morphine, subjectively.
I didn't go from methadone to morphine, I went from morphine to methadone. My Methadone dose in the very beginning was 7.5 mgs a day and worked way better than 60 mgs of morphine ER plus another 15 mgs of morphine
If you decide to change pain meds ask for oxymorphone (Opana). I thought it was a great pain med but at the time I had a sadistic doctor from a learning hospital who thought we were mice and experimented by changing all pains every 4 months. I found another pain specialist who put me on 30 mgs a day with plenty of breakthrough meds and I've been fine for 8 years.
This is solely my opinion. I have read on this forum how much morphine sucks unless someone is shooting it.
Stay on Methadone or ask for 40 mgs Opana ER twice a day with small amounts of Opana IR for breakthrough. You won't be unhappy.
At your current dose of Methadone you would need a large amount of morphine to keep the pain and withdrawal away. Morphine has a pathetically low BA versus Methadone. I found that morphine ER really sucked for me and being put on Methadone took away the pain and stopped the cycle of daily withdrawal I had with morphine.
By my own pain specialists chart Methadone is considered 8 times stronger, per milligram, than morphine. This was a published study to help doctors decide what strength to give patients when switching from any opiate/opiod to any other opiate/opiod. Now take into account how little of the morphine your body can use (I think it's 30%, but you can look it up on the charts here) and you can see the problem.
So 60 to 70 mgs of Methadone might require 300 mgs or more of morphine, subjectively.
I didn't go from methadone to morphine, I went from morphine to methadone. My Methadone dose in the very beginning was 7.5 mgs a day and worked way better than 60 mgs of morphine ER plus another 15 mgs of morphine
If you decide to change pain meds ask for oxymorphone (Opana). I thought it was a great pain med but at the time I had a sadistic doctor from a learning hospital who thought we were mice and experimented by changing all pains every 4 months. I found another pain specialist who put me on 30 mgs a day with plenty of breakthrough meds and I've been fine for 8 years.
This is solely my opinion. I have read on this forum how much morphine sucks unless someone is shooting it.
Stay on Methadone or ask for 40 mgs Opana ER twice a day with small amounts of Opana IR for breakthrough. You won't be unhappy.
I appreciate your response and help. I am interested in trying Opana, but how do I go about it? I have been with my Pain Management Clinic for 4 yrs and love the guy (even though I usually see the practitioner). The practitioner can change me because recently we discussed it. They also just adopted a 70mg Morphine equivalency Max. So..,the 30 mg I take a day they say is even a tid bit over that. So...with the Opana....do you think they would even consider it? Also...do I just go in there and say "Hey...I've done some research and I heard Opana works really well". Thanks again for responding.
Chronicpain54
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They instituted a 70 mg morphine equivalency? That's bull. The studies done say that we aren't supposed to be over 200 mgs of morphine or equivalent in one day.
I thought you said you were on 60 to 70 mgs of Methadone a day? 30 mgs of Methadone WOULD be over the equivalent of 70 mgs of morphine per their charts. Did they just lower you to 30 mgs or did I miss something? 30 mgs of Methadone is 240 mgs of morphine according to the study, which is ridiculous.
My medicine was cut back because of that study so I went from 50 mgs of Methadone to 30 mgs of Methadone a day literally overnight.
But...I've been with my doctor for 8 years so I get more than enough breakthrough medicine to make up for it.
By the way, that study was done for PCPs and other doctors who don't normally prescribe opiates on a full term basis as an aid to help them. It was not made for pain specialists. It's a suggestion, not a law, so screw your clinic for doing that to all the patients. The government needs to stop this crap.
Look, if they will allow it, stay on the 70 mgs of Methadone a day. If you ask for Opana and they are lowering everyone's dose to those morphine equivalents you'd be lucky to get 10 mgs Opana ER twice a day and maybe 15 mgs IR a day. I was on that dose of Opana at one time and was in withdrawal for hours every day. Sneezing uncontrollably, hot and sweaty, inability to sleep, etc. You don't want to go from 70 mgs of Methadone to that dosage of Opana, believe me.
And cross your fingers that they don't start dropping your dosages. My doctor dropped all of my medicine over the last 18 months but I'm still way over the suggested 200mgs of morphine equivalent per day. On my last visit I was told they were not dropping my dosages any lower thank goodness.
Do you take anything besides Methadone? 70 mgs is pretty high for pain management unless you don't get breakthrough medicine or additional supportive medicine like gabapentin or promethazine or a low dosage of a benzo.
I thought you said you were on 60 to 70 mgs of Methadone a day? 30 mgs of Methadone WOULD be over the equivalent of 70 mgs of morphine per their charts. Did they just lower you to 30 mgs or did I miss something? 30 mgs of Methadone is 240 mgs of morphine according to the study, which is ridiculous.
My medicine was cut back because of that study so I went from 50 mgs of Methadone to 30 mgs of Methadone a day literally overnight.
But...I've been with my doctor for 8 years so I get more than enough breakthrough medicine to make up for it.
By the way, that study was done for PCPs and other doctors who don't normally prescribe opiates on a full term basis as an aid to help them. It was not made for pain specialists. It's a suggestion, not a law, so screw your clinic for doing that to all the patients. The government needs to stop this crap.
Look, if they will allow it, stay on the 70 mgs of Methadone a day. If you ask for Opana and they are lowering everyone's dose to those morphine equivalents you'd be lucky to get 10 mgs Opana ER twice a day and maybe 15 mgs IR a day. I was on that dose of Opana at one time and was in withdrawal for hours every day. Sneezing uncontrollably, hot and sweaty, inability to sleep, etc. You don't want to go from 70 mgs of Methadone to that dosage of Opana, believe me.
And cross your fingers that they don't start dropping your dosages. My doctor dropped all of my medicine over the last 18 months but I'm still way over the suggested 200mgs of morphine equivalent per day. On my last visit I was told they were not dropping my dosages any lower thank goodness.
Do you take anything besides Methadone? 70 mgs is pretty high for pain management unless you don't get breakthrough medicine or additional supportive medicine like gabapentin or promethazine or a low dosage of a benzo.
I guess I worded things incorrectly above. Im in Ohio...Here's my breakdown. I was on 25 mg a day for yes and a yr ago they put me on 30mg a day because I was in way to much pain. That actually really helped me....but then 3 months ago they said they have to take keep me under 70mg of Morphine equivalency and they took me down to 25 mg a day. I was fine for a month or so and then I just started going downhill. I don't get anything else to take but haven't really asked and all I take besides that is 2 drugs for my OCD and Nexium for my hernia. That's it. The Practitioner told me if I reeeeeaaallllly needed to go back to 30mg a day on my Methadone I could after trying 25mg a day for awhile...but they didn't seem enthused by it. That's why I came here mentioning morphine because she had mentioned that....but I sure as heck won't do that. I'm just frustrated. It's not like I can just find a different PMC. You have to get referred and then you have no idea if you are bettering yourself.
Chronicpain54
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Believe me, I understand. Not only did I have to be referred by three separate people to the pain specialist that I currently use but I also had to go to a psychiatrist for one visit to see if I was a drug seeker. The things we are put through is crazy.
It looks like Methadone is a much better option than the morphine. So...have you thought about asking for a breakthrough med versus going back to 30 mgs of Methadone? You could possibly get 30 mgs of Vicodin a day to help.
If not, try to get back to 30 mgs of Methadone quickly before you hit a brick wall of "We can't approve that dosage here". Ask for either Lyrica or gabapentin. They are great for sleep and relieving nerve pain so most clinics throw it around like candy. Just don't increase the dosage on your own...ever. If you need a higher dose they will step you up. I could never get close to taking my prescribed amount of Lyrica and threw out thousands of them when I got divorced and cleaned out my closet. Most pain clinics will underprescribe pain medicine and try to make up for it with 4 other prescription meds. If they had just increased my pain medicine by a small amount most patients would do much better. But now we have this stupid study saying all doctors should take patients off of meds they have been on for years. Should be an increase in heroin sales any day now.
I don't know your clinic and I don't go to a clinic anymore thank goodness. My doctor works by himself and takes care of his patients as he sees fit. Even now I'm on the equivalent of about 380 mgs of morphine if you go by the charts.
Vicodin is 1 to 1 with morphine. (Considered equal)
Oxycodone is 1.5 stronger than morphine.
Methadone is 8 times stronger than morphine.
When I add up my oxys and Vicodin I'm so far above the recommended amounts that the government would consider me a walking case of overdose every day. Add in my benzo, which most clinics will no longer prescribe if you take an opiate and I should be dead, right?
And yet I pay my bills, go to lunch with family, drive across country 4 times a year....so, yeah. The government and whoever commissioned that study can kiss my butt.
Last word? Do what you need to get out of pain. If you can't change clinics and you are suffering then I see no shame in buying what you need from wherever. I bought Percocet off the street every month while at that clinic and do not feel bad about it. Should my doctor pass on and I end up in a clinic offering me only 25 mgs of Methadone and nothing else then I'll quit the clinic and smoke pot everyday.
It looks like Methadone is a much better option than the morphine. So...have you thought about asking for a breakthrough med versus going back to 30 mgs of Methadone? You could possibly get 30 mgs of Vicodin a day to help.
If not, try to get back to 30 mgs of Methadone quickly before you hit a brick wall of "We can't approve that dosage here". Ask for either Lyrica or gabapentin. They are great for sleep and relieving nerve pain so most clinics throw it around like candy. Just don't increase the dosage on your own...ever. If you need a higher dose they will step you up. I could never get close to taking my prescribed amount of Lyrica and threw out thousands of them when I got divorced and cleaned out my closet. Most pain clinics will underprescribe pain medicine and try to make up for it with 4 other prescription meds. If they had just increased my pain medicine by a small amount most patients would do much better. But now we have this stupid study saying all doctors should take patients off of meds they have been on for years. Should be an increase in heroin sales any day now.
I don't know your clinic and I don't go to a clinic anymore thank goodness. My doctor works by himself and takes care of his patients as he sees fit. Even now I'm on the equivalent of about 380 mgs of morphine if you go by the charts.
Vicodin is 1 to 1 with morphine. (Considered equal)
Oxycodone is 1.5 stronger than morphine.
Methadone is 8 times stronger than morphine.
When I add up my oxys and Vicodin I'm so far above the recommended amounts that the government would consider me a walking case of overdose every day. Add in my benzo, which most clinics will no longer prescribe if you take an opiate and I should be dead, right?
And yet I pay my bills, go to lunch with family, drive across country 4 times a year....so, yeah. The government and whoever commissioned that study can kiss my butt.
Last word? Do what you need to get out of pain. If you can't change clinics and you are suffering then I see no shame in buying what you need from wherever. I bought Percocet off the street every month while at that clinic and do not feel bad about it. Should my doctor pass on and I end up in a clinic offering me only 25 mgs of Methadone and nothing else then I'll quit the clinic and smoke pot everyday.
Chronicpain54
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2018
- Messages
- 293
Just a thought. If you are retired or on disability so you don't need to go to work everyday then a Methadone clinic might be a consideration. It's usually cheaper than a pain clinic and they will slowly increase your dosage daily until you are comfortable.
One caveat - do NOT say you are a chronic pain patient that was under treated or left your doctor or anything like that. Say you became addicted to Methadone and lost your connection, or something like that. It's true, in a sideways point of view.
Methadone clinics don't want chronic pain patients whose doctor cut them back. Real life pain patients I've talked with were told that the Methadone Maintenance Program is not for chronic pain patients and they received no help.
You would have to go every morning for a certain period of time, and then you would slowly be given take home doses until you get 2 weeks at a time. If you don't abuse any medicine and all that shows up in your urine screen is Methadone then this would work if you can't get relief any other way.
Just Please keep your dosages as low as possible should you have to eventually use this route, because they will keep raising your dosage until you say Stop and you don't want to take 100 mgs a day if 50 or 60 mgs works.
I'm not saying this is perfect and I don't normally condone lying, but should my doctor die or retire suddenly I would use a Methadone clinic to get weaned off of it and then I'll probably smoke pot. The amount of money I spend in 1 year with my doctor and prescriptions could have bought enough pot for the rest of my life lol.
Please update us/me and let me know what happens. I remember the frustration and pain of being under medicated and it probably started me down the road of extreme anxiety that I now take medicine for.
Good luck Man.
One caveat - do NOT say you are a chronic pain patient that was under treated or left your doctor or anything like that. Say you became addicted to Methadone and lost your connection, or something like that. It's true, in a sideways point of view.
Methadone clinics don't want chronic pain patients whose doctor cut them back. Real life pain patients I've talked with were told that the Methadone Maintenance Program is not for chronic pain patients and they received no help.
You would have to go every morning for a certain period of time, and then you would slowly be given take home doses until you get 2 weeks at a time. If you don't abuse any medicine and all that shows up in your urine screen is Methadone then this would work if you can't get relief any other way.
Just Please keep your dosages as low as possible should you have to eventually use this route, because they will keep raising your dosage until you say Stop and you don't want to take 100 mgs a day if 50 or 60 mgs works.
I'm not saying this is perfect and I don't normally condone lying, but should my doctor die or retire suddenly I would use a Methadone clinic to get weaned off of it and then I'll probably smoke pot. The amount of money I spend in 1 year with my doctor and prescriptions could have bought enough pot for the rest of my life lol.
Please update us/me and let me know what happens. I remember the frustration and pain of being under medicated and it probably started me down the road of extreme anxiety that I now take medicine for.
Good luck Man.