I?m a sinner worthy of damnation

[Aprophenea]

Jesus is the one way to salivation. He's got cholinergic properties. That's why christians are so toxic.

Ba dum tsss. I'll see myself out thank you very much.

 

[sonicwhite]

Cherub we can?t orove anything to anyone without the Holy Spirit opening their eyes.

Debating is fruitless and all I?m saying is that we know the God of the universe. We where chosen out of the world to see this truth.

I pray one day ppls eyes will be open to what we both see.

 

[Xorkoth]

I read the Bible from cover to cover as a teenager. Doing so is the beginning of what caused me to move away from Christianity and see it as just another of many world religions, as opposed to "the one correct religion". Also, what I got from it about Jesus the man was that he was never trying to say he was the one and only son of god, and that he would be facepalming really hard right now because he was trying to say we don't NEED religion, we are all part of the divine already. And if we all lived the way he suggested, we could have heaven on Earth. He also preached radical love and pacifism, as well as a redistribution of wealth from the rich to the poor, so that everyone could be provided for. Reading the Bible greatly increased my admiration for Jesus the man, but it also suggested to me that Jesus would have never wanted to be worshipped or had a religion built up around him. And certainly not a religion that tells the people that they are flawed and dirty and unworthy.

The dead sea scrolls where the second oldest known copy of Jewish old testament found. Some extra texts were found and were not included in the bible.

None of these texts talk about any of the new testament.

Jewish people had a well developed mythology with pieces taken from everywhere. When Yeshua was alive (if he ever truly was) he demonstrated that the law brings death and brought a complete end to the old Jewish teachings.

While both the Catholic church and later protestant churches keep including the old Jewish mythology with the new testament it has been done so we have the obvious juxtaposition of this figure later called Jesus who was killed for his outright denunciation of the Jewish mythology saying man had direct access to God.

The question I would pose to anyone who takes the gospel message of Jesus seriously is this. Before his death on the cross what was the good news (gospel) that he was spreading. Why were they opposing him?

When I ask today I'm told the good news is his death and resurrection but he was proclaiming something they all referred to as the good news long before his death and people were following him. Where was he leading them before he was killed?

With regard to the bible I do agree that people with the best intentions wrote the most informed things they were able to long ago. Today we are smarter and have a much better education, we can discern truth from fiction and allegory. No people have ever been perfect and the stories they left show us that, let's learn from their mistake specifically the mistake of using the name of god to advance our own agendas.

Excellent post. Anyone following Jesus should think about what you're saying here.

 

[Cherubs]

You asked me to prove where Yaweh commands murder of the firstbornthe Lord

23-06-2018 11:12

Originally Posted by rickolasnice

In Exodus 13:2 Consecrate to me every first-born that opens the womb among Israelites, both man and beast, for it belongs to me.?

This is why I sacrifice to the Lord the first male offspring of every womb and redeem each of my firstborn sons.? . . . What do I win?





No! . . . you don't win. The two "operative" words here are sacrifice and redeem. So, the sacrifice of the male offspring refers to animals and redeeming of the first sons refer to humans. Got it?
​

 

[Cherubs]

". . . None of these texts talk about any of the new testament."

You miss the point of the Dead Sea Scrolls. There over 3 thousand-years old. In spite of this, one can still "extrapolate" enough info from those fragments, several books still intact, to confirm both translations of both the so called old and new testaments.

What part of this tangible prove do you not understand? It's right there in your face, an archaeological testament!!

 

[Yourbaker]

No, I really don't miss the point of the Jewish mythology and it's need for validation. Jesus wasn't validating it read the new testament and see if you can figure out why thousands of people went out all day to listen to Jesus talk. What was he talking about that made the religious people kill him?

Read it like you never read it before with no preconceived plots or motives, as if you were just born.

If you feel angry at people for suggesting you may have been unintentionally mislead please consider we aren't angry at you and we don't win a prize for taking time to discuss your ideas.

It would be simple if there was a guide book to life but there just isn't and in reality that makes it a lot more wonderful. Where you may see rules and restrictions it's really blue sky and ocean, I believe Jesus was pointing directly at the mistake we were making and we still keep making it.

 

[belligerent drunk]

These so called stories were verified in the 1940. One would expect this from a God that placed the earth the correct distance from the sun. In other words, in spite of the scriptures being translated thousand of times, the Dead Sea Scrolls proves no error in translation. Now you think about that when you sleep tonight.

Correct for what? You do know that for the Solar system, the habitable zone is within the distance around 3% closer to the Sun and 30% farther from the Sun from Earth's position? We really are in no special place.

 

[Cherubs]

^^^ I seriously doubt you know more than an astronomer. The earths distance form our sun is so special, that Astronomers call it the Goldilocks zone, because it's just right. Now, does that sound special to you? LoL . . . LoL . . . you think about that when you go to bed tonight.

 

[GaryGlisten]

23-06-2018 11:12

Originally Posted by rickolasnice

In Exodus 13:2 Consecrate to me every first-born that opens the womb among Israelites, both man and beast, for it belongs to me.?

This is why I sacrifice to the Lord the first male offspring of every womb and redeem each of my firstborn sons.? . . . What do I win?





No! . . . you don't win. The two "operative" words here are sacrifice and redeem. So, the sacrifice of the male offspring refers to animals and redeeming of the first sons refer to humans. Got it?
​

Why would a loving God require sacrifice of any living thing to "HIM" at all? Why does a God of mercy require that his own living creatures suffer and die to please him? It's absurd. You are going to great lengths to defend the behaviour of this absolute monster but completely ignoring the spirit of the whole thing, the attitude of this God towards his own creatures. His tyrannical, egotistical nature and his seemingly endless lust for blood, vengeance and punishment for those who disobey his word. There is no way that any society can base a system of morality on this book because there is no morality contained within it. We have a God who can do whatever he likes, who commands the killing of men, women children and animals and who delights in this for his own GLORY..it's absolutely sick.
If I have a pet Dog and the Dog doesn't do what it's told I don't throw a tantrum and demand that the animal must be punished to teach it a lesson. How can I respect, let alone worship a God whose behaviour is so reprehensible?

 

[Cherubs]

Why would a loving God require sacrifice of any living thing to "HIM" at all?

That's good question, Gary. But always remember, those where never human sacrifices: Deuteronomy 12:31 "You must not do this to Yahweh your God, because they do for their gods every detestable thing that Yahweh hates, even burning their sons and their daughters in the fire to their gods.+ https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/dx/r1/lp-e/1001070109/5272

 

[belligerent drunk]

^^^ I seriously doubt you know more than an astronomer. The earths distance form our sun is so special, that Astronomers call it the Goldilocks zone, because it's just right. Now, does that sound special to you? LoL . . . LoL . . . you think about that when you go to bed tonight.

Quoting Wikipedia:

Estimates for the habitable zone within the Solar System range from 0.38 to 10.0 astronomical units

In case you don't remember, one astronomical unit (AU) is the average distance of Earth from the Sun. So yeah, I was both right and wrong - wrong in that the habitable zone is much wider than the numbers I gave. And don't worry, I know my astronomy pretty well.

 

[Xorkoth]

The "Golilocks Zone" is another name for the habitable zone, so yeah, we're not the exact distance away from the sun for survival, we're within a relatively narrow band that makes life as we know it possible. Still amazing, but not proof of god. If a different rocky planet of sufficient size had ended up here, there would likely be life on it. If none had, there wouldn't be. In any case there is almost certainly life in other places in the universe, wherever planets capable of supporting life arrive at distances that are correct from their stars. It's statistics, the universe is so incomprehensibly vast that unless we're the ONLY life in ALL of that, there must be life in many places. We're special, but we're not that special.

That's good question, Gary. But always remember, those where never human sacrifices: Deuteronomy 12:31 "You must not do this to Yahweh your God, because they do for their gods every detestable thing that Yahweh hates, even burning their sons and their daughters in the fire to their gods.+ https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/dx/r1/lp-e/1001070109/5272

Even if it wasn't ever human sacrifices (and I think you're reaching with that - also, what about the story of Moses where Jesus sent the angel of death to kill every firstborn son of the Egyptians in vengeance for enslaving the Israelites? If you assert that the OT god isn't murderous, you have to try to refute that one), even then, why would a just and merciful god require us to murder animals in his name?

 

[sonicwhite]

2 Timothy 2:23-24 New International Version (NIV)

23 Don?t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. 24 And the Lord?s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.


Cherub we?re here to help not debate. Like I?ve said they don?t produce anything but anger.

 

[sonicwhite]

I?m not saying anyone is not anger. We just can?t prove anything without the help of the Holy Spirit.

 

[GaryGlisten]

Why would an all knowing, all wise and loving God require us to worship him at all? It's such a retarded concept.

 

[sonicwhite]

No one in all creation can separate you from the Love of God that is Christ Jesus!

 

[Cherubs]

The "Golilocks Zone" is another name for the habitable zone, so yeah, we're not the exact distance away from the sun for survival, we're within a relatively narrow band that makes life as we know it possible.

Now close your eyes and imagine the earth at the exact distance from the sun . . . yeah that could pose a problem. So, again, the Goldilocks zone is perfect. Remember, you're trying to refute "cherubs"

 

[sonicwhite]

Ugh, I tried!

 

[Xorkoth]

Now close your eyes and imagine the earth at the exact distance from the sun . . . yeah that could pose a problem. So, again, the Goldilocks zone is perfect. Remember, you're trying to refute "cherubs"

I don't follow your logic at all. Maybe you mis-typed but what you said doesn't make any sense. Try actually thinking about what I said, and what B_D said. I mean you tried to refute his argument by saying he doesn't know as much as an astronomer and he used the definition as put forth by astronomers to refute your point. I don't think you're really listening at all. I can understand it might be frightening to challenge your beliefs but it doesn't mean you need to scrabble for anything you can to defend them to yourself. The Earth could be millions of miles closer or farther from the sun with the same basic result. Other stars, we have discovered, also have rocky planets within their own "Golilocks zones", which means life may exist in some of those places, too. Yeah, it's lucky Earth ended up here. But the fact that it DID end up here is the reason life emerged on it. If it hadn't, life would have emerged somewhere else instead and people might be debating whether or not the precise position of that planet was existence of god. It's nice to think we're unique, it makes us feel important to think that, but it's more freeing to realize we're not, for me.

Ugh, I tried!

Just be comfortable with your own beliefs, and let other people have theirs. Proselytizing turns people off.

 

[sonicwhite]

We have had ppl show aliens. But there has never been any real proof that their if life beyond us. Heaven is My Throne and the earth is my footstool.