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I?m a sinner worthy of damnation

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What shakes me the most.

Christ said deny me in front of your friends and I?ll deny you in front of my Father.

I simply can?t risk living life the way I want and be judged by God.

I would rather live a life believing in God then not and being judged by God when I die and find out He?s real.
 
Staying inside the Christian faith, the Bible says "Perfect love casts out all fear". There isn't room for ambiguity in that statement and it easy to realize from an old person's perspective that it's easy to forgive those we have come to love, like children, brothers, sisters etc and we can see in ourselves that if we loved those people around us the way we really should, then those people we have perfect love for would have no fear of us. The resulting philosophical statement is simple because God's love is perfect toward all life therefore we all have nothing to fear from God. Or we get caught in a mental issue trying to understand perfect love from a creator and fit the idea of hell and eternal punishment.

This is where you need to study, it becomes obvious these two philosophies can't be from the same source. Perfect love does not leave room for eternal damnation.

It was challenging to question my core beliefs but stay inside the teachings of the bible, Jesus talked about going to the father and asking for bread and not being given a snake. I accepted this as necessary, if there was a divinity that loved humanity how could we be toyed with in the apparent way the bible was written.

The last thought I would bring up is that besides his name being Yeshua we keep referring to him as the Christ. This is a Jewish title and comes from the Jewish mythology that God told Abraham he was special as were all his descendants from his child with his wife/sister Sara. One day one of them would be born without a father and be the Christ. Lots of other scripture promises many things around this. None of this makes any sense at all but it has brought thousands of years of war between the sisters offspring and the slaves offspring. Or the longest running fallout from a guy trying to have 2 baby mommas. To me the title Christ is just a Jewish reference tagged onto the Jesus story. I don't think Jesus was even part of their mythology they simply used his story to keep their religious writings alive inside the Christian belief.

In my search for answers, I found them mostly very obviously written right beside the hilarious stories that are fairly easy to discern as not true. I never looked anywhere else (outside of the bible) but I experienced results that made me look outside of the bible to understand what was happening in my own life. I Found the perfect love and forgiveness that Christianity spoke of and with it understanding of what to do. I did not find what I expected, it was much simpler and it was all about us and how we get along.

The God I found makes sense and there is no fear, but again don't believe me just because I said it, lies are free to hand out and I was packing around a huge bag of them. Understanding I had been lied to by people I trusted, was the moment I realized what born again probably meant when the phrase was first used.
 
Sacrificing the first born to Yaweh. It's in the old testament along with countless other atrocities.
Prove it to me. I bet you can't show me where that is written in the Scriptures. I'm calling you out, prove it.
 
The story of Moses...? The last plague God visits upon the Egyptians for enslaving the Jews is sending the angel of death to kill every firstborn son in Egypt. Just read the Bible, it's one of the most major stories.
 
Origin of Passover right?

Its not exactly a sacrifice though. Its god killing his enemies children. Abraham, on the other hand, was perfectly willing to do so but god was 'merciful' to him.
 
The point I was making that I?m humbling myself to show you I?m worse.

I?m a prodigal Son. Going back to My Father!
 
Prove it to me. I bet you can't show me where that is written in the Scriptures. I'm calling you out, prove it.

In Exodus 13:2 Consecrate to me every first-born that opens the womb among Israelites, both man and beast, for it belongs to me.?

11?After the Lord brings you into the land of the Canaanites and gives it to you, as he promised on oath to you and your ancestors, 12you are to give over to the Lord the first offspring of every womb. All the firstborn males of your livestock belong to the Lord. 13Redeem with a lamb every firstborn donkey, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck. Redeem every firstborn among your sons.

14?In days to come, when your son asks you, ?What does this mean?? say to him, ?With a mighty hand the Lord brought us out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 15When Pharaoh stubbornly refused to let us go, the Lord killed the firstborn of both people and animals in Egypt. This is why I sacrifice to the Lord the first male offspring of every womb and redeem each of my firstborn sons.? 16And it will be like a sign on your hand and a symbol on your forehead that the Lord brought us out of Egypt with his mighty hand.?

What do I win?
 
What if I told you I don't believe Jesus is the Christ?.

NOW HOLD ON AND STAY WITH ME I SAID THAT FOR A REASON.

God gave you a conscience. Do so right. Or to do evil.

Why I said that is because clearly you can sense thru your conscience that something I said was not right.

That calibrated conscience that is inline with the Holy Spirit would of told you something isn't right.

If you go to school and you sense something isn't right you feel a little bell go off on your soul.

One of the clearest indicaters to see is that God gave you a bell to ring when things aren't right.

Your conscience can become broken. Calling evil good and good evil.

That's what sin does to the heart. It breaks the Ten commandments tablet over your heart. It can be seared as with a hot iron.

For me to say with all who know me here that I don't believe in Jesus should of dinged your conscience the Holy Spirit that something isn't right.

We knew before we even thought that murder was wrong, who is the world put that there if your are an atheist and don't believe any of the simple truths that there is a God of Moral Laws.

Please consider that you have been given this life, what makes you think you wouldn't have another.

To clear up confusion only the wise will be able to discern what I was trying to say.

Jesus is the Son of God.

I was showing you the simple proof that there is a God.
 
How is that proof? That's even worse than the normal "proof" given out... You'll never prove anything to anyone except yourself. Be happy you proved it to yourself somehow and keep it moving. You shouldn't care what others believe. I don't care what you believe because it's your business.

Luke 7,632.75 - And who said unto man, "Who cares?!?"
 
In Exodus 13:2 Consecrate to me every first-born that opens the womb among Israelites, both man and beast, for it belongs to me.?

11?. . . give over to the Lord the first offspring of every womb. This is why I sacrifice to the Lord the first male offspring of every womb and redeem each of my firstborn sons.? . . . What do I win?


No! . . . you don't win. But I like the way you read the above narrative. The two "operative" words here are sacrifice and redeem. So, the sacrifice of the male offspring refers to animals and redeeming of the first sons refer to humans. Got it?
 
You guys talk about how Hod isn?t real or can?t save yet in the same sentence you says he murders and kills so which one is it? You either believe or you don?t.
 
The Parable of the Talents
14 ?For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants[a] and entrusted to them his property. 15 To one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. 16 He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them, and he made five talents more. 17 So also he who had the two talents made two talents more. 18 But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master's money. 19 Now after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 And he who had received the five talents came forward, bringing five talents more, saying, ?Master, you delivered to me five talents; here, I have made five talents more.? 21 His master said to him, ?Well done, good and faithful servant.[c] You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.? 22 And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, ?Master, you delivered to me two talents; here, I have made two talents more.? 23 His master said to him, ?Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.? 24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ?Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed, 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here, you have what is yours.? 26 But his master answered him, ?You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.?


In what I said above. YOU KNEW I SOWED WHERE I DIDNT REAP.

You knew cuz you call God evil and say He does what He pleases by saying He is full of atrocities.

What?s scary about Christ is that I feel He is God over all.

I will trade my two talents and receive two more.
 
I agree with Swilow regarding the books we have grouped together that people cal the bible. They are simply stories written by people thousands of years ago that may have originally been more or less accurate when written. Certainly today with translation errors and the fact that these texts were never from originals it should give everyone a reason to study carefully before committing to a life of self punishment because a long dead person wrote that you should and claimed God told them.

These so called stories were verified in the 1940. One would expect this from a God that placed the earth the correct distance from the sun. In other words, in spite of the scriptures being translated thousand of times, the Dead Sea Scrolls proves no error in translation. Now you think about that when you sleep tonight.
 
The dead sea scrolls where the second oldest known copy of Jewish old testament found. Some extra texts were found and were not included in the bible.

None of these texts talk about any of the new testament.

Jewish people had a well developed mythology with pieces taken from everywhere. When Yeshua was alive (if he ever truly was) he demonstrated that the law brings death and brought a complete end to the old Jewish teachings.

While both the Catholic church and later protestant churches keep including the old Jewish mythology with the new testament it has been done so we have the obvious juxtaposition of this figure later called Jesus who was killed for his outright denunciation of the Jewish mythology saying man had direct access to God.

The question I would pose to anyone who takes the gospel message of Jesus seriously is this. Before his death on the cross what was the good news (gospel) that he was spreading. Why were they opposing him?

When I ask today I'm told the good news is his death and resurrection but he was proclaiming something they all referred to as the good news long before his death and people were following him. Where was he leading them before he was killed?

With regard to the bible I do agree that people with the best intentions wrote the most informed things they were able to long ago. Today we are smarter and have a much better education, we can discern truth from fiction and allegory. No people have ever been perfect and the stories they left show us that, let's learn from their mistake specifically the mistake of using the name of god to advance our own agendas.
 
Prove it to me. I bet you can't show me where that is written in the Scriptures. I'm calling you out, prove it.


In Exodus 22:29 Yahweh commanded that all firstborn sons be consecrated to himself: "Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me." Yahweh said the same thing in Exodus 13:2: "Consecrate to me every first-born that opens the womb among Israelites, both man and beast, for it belongs to me." And what did he want the firstborn consecrated to himself for? Leviticus 27:28, 29 gives us this horrifying answer: "But nothing that a person owns and devotes to the Lord--whether a human being or an animal or family land--may be sold or redeemed; everything so devoted is most holy to the Lord. No person devoted to destruction may be ransomed; they are to be put to death."

Do recall the admission that Yahweh made in Ezekiel 20:25, 26: “So I gave them [the Israelites] other statutes that were not good and laws through which they could not live [be put to death]; I defiled them through their gifts--the sacrifice of every firstborn--that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the Lord.”
 
Ponder this next reference to human sacrifice in the bible, which we previously mentioned in passing: “Suppose you hear in one of the towns the Lord your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, together with all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the Lord your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the Lord will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. The Lord your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” - Deuteronomy 13:12-18.
Second Samuel 21:6-10 provides us with still another good example of human sacrifice to appease Yahweh: “Let seven men of his sons be delivered unto us, and we will hang them up unto the Lord in Gib’e-ah of Saul, whom the Lord did choose. And he delivered them into the hands of the Gib’e-on-ites, and they hanged them in the hill before the Lord: and they fell all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest, in the first days, in the beginning of barley harvest. And Riz’pah the daughter of A-i’ah took sackcloth, and spread it for her upon the rock, from the beginning of harvest until water dropped upon them out of heaven, and suffered neither the birds of the air to rest on them by day, nor the beasts of the field by night.” This human sacrifice to Yahweh was performed in the hope that he would end a famine. Is this not as “pagan,” or “heathen,” as one can get? And notice how Yahweh approved of this human sacrifice by making it rain.
Yahweh was presumably particularly fond of virgin sacrifices, as we see in this next scripture: “And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, ‘Take the sum of the prey that was taken, both of man and of beast, thou, and Eleazar the priest, and the chief fathers of the congregation: And divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation: And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep: Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the Lord. And of the children of Israel’s half, thou shalt take one portion of fifty, of the persons, of the beeves, of the asses, and of the flocks, of all manner of beasts, and give them unto the Levites, which keep the charge of the tabernacle of the Lord.’ And Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses. And the booty, being the rest of the prey which the men of war had caught, was six hundred thousand and seventy thousand and five thousand sheep, And threescore and twelve thousand beeves, And threescore and one thousand asses, And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him. And the half, which was the portion of them that went out to war, was in number three hundred thousand and seven and thirty thousand and five hundred sheep: And the Lord’s tribute of the sheep was six hundred and threescore and fifteen. And the beeves were thirty and six thousand; of which the Lord’s tribute was threescore and twelve. And the asses were thirty thousand and five hundred; of which the Lord’s tribute was threescore and one. And the persons were sixteen thousand; of which the Lord’s tribute was thirty and two persons.” - Numbers 31:25-40. There can be no denying that Yahweh required and demanded human sacrifice.
We will here take a second look at a passage cited earlier, where Yahweh’s wrath was appeased by Moses offering to him the Moabites as human sacrifices: “And the Lord said unto Moses, ‘Take all the heads of the [Moabite] people and hang them up before the Lord against the sun, that the fierce anger of the Lord may be turned away from Israel.’” - Numbers 25:4. A passage similar to this is 2 Samuel 21:8, 9, 14: “But the king took Armoni and Mephibosheth, the two sons of Aiah’s daughter Rizpah, whom she had borne to Saul, together with the five sons of Saul’s daughter Merab, whom she had borne to Adriel son of Barzillai the Meholathite. He handed them over to the Gibeonites, who killed them and exposed their bodies on a hill before the Lord.…They buried the bones of Saul and his son Jonathan in the tomb of Saul’s father Kish, at Zela in Benjamin, and did everything the king commanded. After that, God answered prayer in behalf of the land.”
All down through the centuries, from one culture to the next, human sacrifice had always been associated with the eating of the flesh and / or drinking of the blood of the human sacrificial victim. Although the bible itself does not mention the eating of the flesh and drinking of the blood of human sacrifice victims (well, it sort of does, as we shall shortly see), it nevertheless does talk about the eating and drinking of human flesh and blood quite frequently, outside of the context of human sacrifice. In fact, it is usually Yahweh himself, in a very psychopathic manner, that mentions these practices in several biblical passages (some of which we have already glanced at):


- “Because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you.” - Deuteronomy 28:53.


- “Therefore the fathers shall eat the sons in the midst of thee, and the sons shall eat their fathers.” - Ezekiel 5:10.


- “And I [Yahweh] will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend.” - Jeremiah 19:9.


- “You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters.” - Leviticus 26:29.


- “By the wrath of the Lord Almighty the land will be scorched and the people will be fuel for the fire; they will not spare one another. On the right they will devour, but still be hungry; on the left they will eat, but not be satisfied. Each will feed on the flesh of their own offspring.” - Isaiah 9:19, 20.


- “I will make your oppressors eat their own flesh; they will be drunk on their own blood, as with wine. Then all mankind will know that I, the Lord, am your Savior, your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.” - Isaiah 49:26.


- “The hands of the pitiful women have sodden their own children: they were their meat [food].” - Lamentations 4:10.
 
and how about this for a classic...


“This woman said unto me, ‘Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow.’ So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, ‘Give thy son, that we may eat him.’” - 2 Kings 6:28, 29.
 
and how about this for a classic... “This woman said unto me, ‘Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow.’ So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, ‘Give thy son, that we may eat him.’” - 2 Kings 6:28, 29.

Maybe it's a classic to you, Gary, but not to me. The meaning to the above is very clear to any scholar. It reference a timer when the Israelite were experiencing a famine. So they resorted to cannibalism, like many have done in past. I encourge you to read the Scriptures, Garry. Just don't go parrot what someone tells you.
 
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You asked me to prove where Yaweh commands murder of the firstborn


In Exodus 22:29 Yahweh commanded that all firstborn sons be consecrated to himself: "Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me." Yahweh said the same thing in Exodus 13:2: "Consecrate to me every first-born that opens the womb among Israelites, both man and beast, for it belongs to me." And what did he want the firstborn consecrated to himself for? Leviticus 27:28, 29 gives us this horrifying answer: "But nothing that a person owns and devotes to the Lord--whether a human being or an animal or family land--may be sold or redeemed; everything so devoted is most holy to the Lord. No person devoted to destruction may be ransomed; they are to be put to death."

Do recall the admission that Yahweh made in Ezekiel 20:25, 26: “So I gave them [the Israelites] other statutes that were not good and laws through which they could not live [be put to death]; I defiled them through their gifts--the sacrifice of every firstborn--that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the Lord.”
 
Just observe the general tyrannical behaviour of this God.. lusting for bloodshed, vengeance, "consecration unto him".. This God you worship is an utter lunatic, not a God of love and mercy.
 
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