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  • P&S Moderators: Xorkoth | Madness

Does not killing your own meat reduce culpability

Not any that I know of. I can explain humans' tendency towards bias pretty well, but I don't know of any good neurochemical explanation for the placebo effect. I can sort of imagine it qualitatively, but I can't explain it on the neurotransmitter and brain region level.
 
My theory is that we actually have more of an ability to control our neurochemical release and biochemical processes than we might think (for example, monks meditating their heart rate down to a very low rate, just as an example). If a person fully expects to be feeling an effect, they can actually cause an effect. It's like how we use ritual to facilitate spiritual feelings/psychological changes. In most cases I would say, people are not aware that they're altering their mind state through willpower; in the case of placebo effect, they believe it's because of a drug that isn't actually present. I wonder if, with enough practice and evolution, we could do things like they do in the Dune books and very precisely control various inner mind/body processes through purposeful intention?
 
It’s funny you bring this up, I’ve been wrestling with these issues in my own life for the last 40 years. Here’s my thoughts starting from the bottom up:


1. We’re all Nazi foot soldiers whether we eat meat, are vegan or full blown vegetarians cause the way I see it, the Nazi foot soldier was no more responsible for the deaths of the Jews in concentration camps than a 4 year old child living in South Africa. At any given time, any given person is just part of the world-wide system. In the 30’s when Jews were trying to flee Nazi Germany, the Pope ignored the reality of the death camps and our North American governments resisted Jews trying to enter Canada and the US. The US government was even supporting the Nazi war machine and the rest of the world was trying to look the other way.


I’m not even Jewish but I feel for them and all the groups the Nazi’s persecuted just the way I feel for all the animals I eat that come from Slaughterhouse 5.


2. I’m a “bodybuilder” too, I exercise with running, swimming and cross-country skiing in the winter along with my daily weightlifting sessions and could never do it looking and feeling as young as I do now at 60 then when I was 20, without eating meat. I’m an animal lover too, so I guess this puts me in a tricky situation.


So I don’t try and overthink shit and chalk it all up to my human genetics: we humans evolved to fish, hunt and eat meat along with gathering fresh veggies, fruits, seeds, nuts and roots (i.e. carrots and potatoes for us modern folk) so I eat like a caveman, or a Viking or a Japanese fisherman. My body thrives on eating everything that’s “Whole Food” and I avoid like the plague, refined sugar, bread, pizza, chips, pastry, processed foods and heat-pressed veggie oils and all “junk foods” in general. I’m also trying not to think about the grocery store animals I eat who had to suffer in the slaughterhouses and chicken and pig mills. The meat we eat from the grocery store comes from animals who die a horrifying, agonizing death just as the Jews and all people caught in genocides did.


I think Ted Nugget had it right all along: the wild meat you eat after killing it yourself dies a relatively quick peaceful death (hopefully, if you’re a good shot!) and is 1000% better for you cause its not stuffed with GMO grains, chemicals, anti-biotics or steroids. And all the girls all love my BIG BALLS and sexy muscles too!


In central Canada where I live, there’s always an overpopulation of deer. I love seeing deer when I’m cross-country skiing, they’re amazing beautiful cute graceful powerful animals but I also live on them too! My body is natural and healthy as a result, and by shooting deer to eat them, I also help keep the roadways safe!


3. So when it comes to enjoying my Cannabis, I’m an all natural, organic grower and use EVERY part of the plant. And when it comes to getting all the good stuff out of my plants, I couldn’t do it as efficiently without my trusty set of Tom’s Tumble Trimmers. I feed my stalks and stems to my cute rabbits I raise to eat, but everything else my TTT takes care of because it trims, separates and processes the kief. My Buds look just like hand-trimmed without the hassle and cost of hiring hand-trimmers and OHHHH! My kief I turn into wicked bubble hash and sell my surplus to extraction companies that make the medical marvels the 21st century—THC concentrates and CBD’s! (or is it, CDB’S?)


So try not to overthink it my friend, because in the end, we’re all hypocrites one way or another. From a spiritual, philosophical point of view (mine that is!) I believe we were all meant to enjoy life to the fullest and I do that by making the smallest ecological foot print I can do best by the animals I hunt to eat so that one moment they’re happily grazing on fresh sweet grass, and the next second they’re grazing in the sweet Hereafter.

KEEN FOR GREEN!
 
1. We’re all Nazi foot soldiers whether we eat meat, are vegan or full blown vegetarians cause the way I see it, the Nazi foot soldier was no more responsible for the deaths of the Jews in concentration camps than a 4 year old child living in South Africa. At any given time, any given person is just part of the world-wide system. In the 30’s when Jews were trying to flee Nazi Germany, the Pope ignored the reality of the death camps and our North American governments resisted Jews trying to enter Canada and the US. The US government was even supporting the Nazi war machine and the rest of the world was trying to look the other way.

Uhh, what? Many SS soldiers who managed concentration camps had practically no choice as far as their soldiery duties went - how in the world is it the same for meat eaters and non-eaters? As far as a person can make a conscious choice whether to consume meat or not, they are fully free to do so. No regime is forcing you to choose one way or another.

2. I’m a “bodybuilder” too, I exercise with running, swimming and cross-country skiing in the winter along with my daily weightlifting sessions and could never do it looking and feeling as young as I do now at 60 then when I was 20, without eating meat. I’m an animal lover too, so I guess this puts me in a tricky situation.

I like animals as well as much as I'm even able to feel anything. Still, I'm an omnivore and meat provides great nutrition. It may seem weird to many, but I will go out of my way to assist an animal in need, but I have no qualms with animals being slaughtered mercilessly for food. I'd rip the neck of a cute deer if that was what stood between me and my dinner, but as it stands, I don't have to - other people do it for me.

Yeah, food subjects are complicated.

THC concentrates and CBD’s! (or is it, CDB’S?)


It's CBD for cannabidiol; not plural either, just CBD.
 
It never ceases to amaze me how Godwin can be worked into almost any topic.
 
Going back to the original thread title for a minute regarding culpability for not killing your own meat.

I don't see killing our food as anything but an act of nature. How we kill it should be a real consideration.

Understanding of food varies depending on belief systems. I like to use the first nation approach because it truly seems to represent life better then most imho. Each life form has a spirit that is the bear, beaver or moose spirit and humanity has too the spirit of man. Over all is the great spirit. Each life form has it's tasks and some are tasked to be food for others at times. Killing for food becomes an act of respect. Some of us are much more empathic then others so for us killing is a huge event and we either become somewhat drawn to the huge spiritual release that happens during death, or we are sickened by it.

I've hunted for years both bow and gun and I have eaten almost everything I've killed. I don't see a big difference in plants vs animals except plants can't hide and catching them isn't much of a chase but they also die to feed me. It's from this knowledge that I had to take my life from them to live that I feel a huge obligation to make my life of value.

Today I don't hunt or live on a farm so I give the killing task to others and it doesn't make me feel guilt, I will always speak out for quick killing and reduction to the amount of meat we are eating. I will also remind vegans that plants are alive just like animals and are related to us exactly the same way. On time lapse photography plants behave as if they had a level of consciousness. I watched my ivy vine slowly push another plant out of the soil and onto the floor when I used the same pot for a group of plants. It was like watching murder in slow motion. Forever my view of plants changed as well as my view of consciousness. There were 5 plants in the soil together in the end it is an ivy vine and a defenbachie and the other 3 were killed by the vine.

As humans we are the caretakers of the planet and all the life on it, or we can get replaced with a few million hears of evolution.

I don't feel culpabil for killing my food or for not killing it but I do feel obliged to the life forms that are giving me life to make the most I can of my life in their favor.
 
Shit I'll go deerhunting and leave it laying there. (I would say this with a wry grin in real life so you would know I'm fucking around.)

We are the top of the food chain, enjoy it.
 
Veganism can be done right, if you understand how to supplement and everything.

My sister went vegetarian, and being non-enthused by the idea of eating vegetables, she's gone clinically obese (I assume by not feeling full by a sugar rich diet and thus eating every two hours like an actual baby).

Does not killing your meat make you less morally culpable? No. By not killing your meat you're either supporting a factory farming industry, or avoiding taking responsibility.

IMO you don't have to be morally corrupt to continue eating meat, as long as you've reached an idea of sorts, an understanding that nature has a balance, hunting is hard wired into everything to a degree and it has been that way for the last several hundred million years or so. Hunting isn't necessarily ethically desirable, but it's a fair claim to say that it's excusable because it's natural. Not desirable, but excusable. Perhaps understanding why things are that way and being grateful you are able to survive is more of an order than condemning every meat eating person. The world we have now was built by omnivores so people are able to be vegan.

If you don't like meat or find killing unnecessary, which I would argue is false but perhaps it's not necessary for you in particular, then don't eat it. Just supplement well, vitamin b12 and the rest etc etc. But I find the moral difference between a vegan and an omnivorous human marginal at best, since both are needed to really keep the tao.

TL;DR no you're not a hero because you eat meat someone else killed. 8( :\
 
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Haha, your sister went vegetarian but doesn't like vegetables? 8( =D

Agreed with basically everything you've said. I would say that, if you're going to eat meat, killing your own via hunting (or eating meat that, say, a family member killed via hunting) reduces your moral culpability, because otherwise you're supporting factory farming (quite a lot more suffering and lots of pollution involved) or at the very least, you're supporting an environmental issue of using agriculture to feed animals and using space to keep animals, and shipping to transport the meat (if you make sure to eat that "top shelf" meat from organic, free-range farms). Either way, killing an animal in the wild for food is the most ethical choice. Especially when we have become that animal's only remaining significant predator (such as deer in many areas of the country).
 
Yeah she just did it to feel morally superior.

I totally agree with the idea that growing up and killing your own meat reduces culpability. The animal is doing what it loves and eating what it loves to eat, and then a flash and it's all over. Of course, if the tables were turned, I'd be really upset :\
 
Sure, but every living thing wants to survive, and struggles to survive. Unfortunately we live in a dog eat dog world, as they say.
 
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