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Thread: Phenbut, Benzos, Coke, Molly, Opiates, Alcohol I think I'm fucked

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    Phenbut, Benzos, Coke, Molly, Opiates, Alcohol I think I'm fucked 
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    I've been using drugs for 20+years. I have a major problem with Phenibut right now, I've been using it for a few years about 10-15 grams a day (I know it's really bad, I don't need to hear that). I'm also prescribed 120 klonopin a month and I get Xanax when I want. My GABA system is fucked. I'm also abusing coke pretty heavy, Molly, and alcohol. Mainly alcohol with benzos (again, I know the risks, but I also know my body and tolerance, so I have it under control). I also came off of suboxone about a year ago, so I love opiates too (and phenibut and suboxone is amazing but you have to be careful).

    My question for anyone that may know, or have some suggestions, what can I do to possibly get back to normal? My gaba receptors are pretty much permanently destroyed. I feel like it's better for me to just stay on a dose of a benzo because I don't think my brain can handle not having it after all these years. I don't want to go through 5 years of repairing my brain, and also I hate the way I am when I don't have gaba stimulation. I'm anxious and shy, and I don't do anything, I'm basically a hermit with no social interaction.

    But the phenibut makes me feel like I can do anything. But it also makes me an asshole. It's ruined my life. I got so cocky I lost my relationship and my job. I thought I was too good for everything in my life.

    So long story short, I'm at this weird point, where I'm kind of old, and I've already lost everything, so I don't know if I should check into rehab and try and go that route and deal with my fucked up life without any help to repair my brain, or just keep figuring it out as I go. I know there's no one that can give me an answer, but it feels good to vent.

    I love this site because people here just get it. Not looking for some miracle answer, just venting and looking for any insight for ya'll.
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    Hey bsome,
    Sorry to hear you're having a rough go of it right now. I have a couple decades with benzos and oxy myself and have an understanding how my body has come to rely on them like air or water. The answer to your question of how to get back to normal is time and work. But normal doesn't have to be stone cold sober unless that's what you really want. I'd ask yourself what's causing the most strife and then work on slaying that beast, then the next one if need be. Getting down to just the prescribed meds would be a huge win in my book as they come with a doctor that can work with you on any issues they might cause. Whichever route you take or however you decide to climb back down from the mountain top you've ended up on I wish you Luck.

    I wanted to add this, it's from a Russian Phenibut company that manufactures the most, it's translated but correct:
    With prolonged use of Phenibutum in a daily dose of 7-14 g, it is possible to develop a hepatotoxic effect (including fatty liver dystrophy), eosinophilia.
    I'm going to move this to TDS as it seems to be a more suitable sub-forum. Hang in there B!

    OD-->TDS
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    #3
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    I've been on benzos for several years now and the problem is that they're a catch-22 (as is many other drugs) in that tolerance over time requires larger doses to feel the same effect leading to a cycle of lather, rinse, repeat. I would consider seeing a doctor and going on a long-term taper. And as far as your life goes, you clearly haven't lost everything given that you're accessing the internet and posting here. Just my two cents but what I've learned from my own experience is that things can always get worse if you stay on the same trajectory. Not saying necessarily that you should go to rehab, but every time I thought I had hit bottom, a trapdoor opened and took me to an even deeper level of shit. That is, until I stopped.
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    #4
    Shadowmeister
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    To be honest with you, you might consider ibogaine if it's at all possible for you. I was addicted to opiates for 10 years and my life had become unbearably painful, I had tried quitting various times and every time it got worse when I failed. I eventually did ibogaine and to be honest it really changed/saved my life. I have never touched an opiate since. I made the decision to keep using other drugs that I have found to be harmless or enriching to my life afterwards, such as marijuana and psychedelics. That was over 4 years ago and I've since struggled occasionally with alcohol, and with stimulants, but instead of feeling like I'm going deeper, I feel like every time I learn and am better than before. The ibogaine basically interrupted my addiction and I was able to think and act like a rational human again, and I didn't have any PAWS, I felt like it had just never happened (physically). I don't think it would work as well for benzos/GABAergics (the physical part I mean) but I have read of success stories for various kinds of drugs. It was like I woke up from a 10 year long nightmare and shook it off and was who I used to be again, and from there I changed my life and now even when I do struggle with overuse of something, I still love my life and have things and people to fill my time with that are good, so I shake it off. I'm not afraid of myself anymore.

    I think it worked uncommonly well for me, but it's worth a shot. It was truly healing for me, mostly on a subconscious level.

    In any case, rehab is also a good option, if you're there with it. I actually never went to in-patient rehab, but it was basically my other option at that point.
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    #5
    I have the same situation - benzos, as prescribed with no dose increase going on 20 years. It's been suggested and even putatively proven that flumazenil infusions appear to be able to recouple GABA receptors with only a few treatments. Unsure of human histology, of course but apparently it is used in Europe as an effective rapid detox instead of the horrible phenobarbital-replacement we do here in the USA.

    Combining this with acamprosate and taurine (which has enabled me to go days without benzos with no real withdrawal, but only with 10-30g/day doses so it must be high quality and pure or the sulfonic acid will make you fart, smell and taste sulfur .. but worse, won't work). seems like a possible solution for creating a base for rebuilding a broken BZD/GABA system.

    I have actually worked out a regimen I think would enable tapering w/o many side effects but it would certainly have efficacy for some people like me, and not for others:

    A clonazepam taper could go 3 to 2mg over 4-6 weeks, then flip to valium and begin divalproex, acamprosate, taurine and either pregabalin or tizanidine if clonic spasms occur, as they do for me.. and if flumazenil works at -all- start that as early as possible.

    Since flumazenil would most definitely throw a lot of us into seizure, I assume it has to be co-administered with a non GABA-ergic general anesthetic e.g. propofol or dexmedetomedine. Also the experience sounds horrifying beyond words so I think I would insist on a propofol coma.

    SOOOO...

    The question I have is .. has ANYONE on BL who's reading this tried flumazenil treatment in the last few years, and PM me if so, or discuss here.


    Quote Originally Posted by Xorkoth View Post
    To be honest with you, you might consider ibogaine if it's at all possible for you. I was addicted to opiates for 10 years and my life had become unbearably painful, I had tried quitting various times and every time it got worse when I failed. I eventually did ibogaine and to be honest it really changed/saved my life. I have never touched an opiate since. I made the decision to keep using other drugs that I have found to be harmless or enriching to my life afterwards, such as marijuana and psychedelics. That was over 4 years ago and I've since struggled occasionally with alcohol, and with stimulants, but instead of feeling like I'm going deeper, I feel like every time I learn and am better than before. The ibogaine basically interrupted my addiction and I was able to think and act like a rational human again, and I didn't have any PAWS, I felt like it had just never happened (physically). I don't think it would work as well for benzos/GABAergics (the physical part I mean) but I have read of success stories for various kinds of drugs. It was like I woke up from a 10 year long nightmare and shook it off and was who I used to be again, and from there I changed my life and now even when I do struggle with overuse of something, I still love my life and have things and people to fill my time with that are good, so I shake it off. I'm not afraid of myself anymore.

    I think it worked uncommonly well for me, but it's worth a shot. It was truly healing for me, mostly on a subconscious level.

    In any case, rehab is also a good option, if you're there with it. I actually never went to in-patient rehab, but it was basically my other option at that point.
    Last edited by modocmodoc; 09-05-2018 at 19:29. Reason: spelling
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    #6
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    Thanks for everyone?s really well thought out responses. So ibogaine is kind of out of the question for me, but I like the idea of leveling with my dr and staying only on prescribed and monitored meds. One of the other things I struggle with is taking things as prescribed, I?m just that guy, I can?t or don?t want to stop getting high. I do but I don?t. I mean I have every reason to try and turn my life around but I?m honestly too much of a pussy to put in the work. I don?t have much going for to keep me positive about making significant changes so it?s really easy to rationalize just getting high because it?s the only time I feel good.
    I know it?s the age old addict dilemma. It?s really tough tho when you?ve lost the things in your life that helped keep you in line, so the other option is so much more appealing.
    Anyway not trying to rant too much but I appreciate everyone who responded.
    I have an appointment with my GP tomorrow and I think I?m just going to level with her, see what my options are medically because I don?t see myself as an NA dude any time soon.
    Thanks again.
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    #7
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    Any other prescription drugs that may help? Tried baclofen and that shit sucks. But anything that I could stay on with klonopin with that may help with motivation/depression? I was thinking a low dose of Adderall would do the trick and there?s another drug called topamax that has some mood stabilizing qualities and it helps immensely with not drinking.
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    #8
    You need to go see a psychiatrist and be honest about what you have done. I think you need an expert in addiction.
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    #9
    Bluelighter Pickledlemons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsomethingon View Post
    Thanks for everyone?s really well thought out responses. So ibogaine is kind of out of the question for me, but I like the idea of leveling with my dr and staying only on prescribed and monitored meds. One of the other things I struggle with is taking things as prescribed, I?m just that guy, I can?t or don?t want to stop getting high. I do but I don?t. I mean I have every reason to try and turn my life around but I?m honestly too much of a pussy to put in the work. I don?t have much going for to keep me positive about making significant changes so it?s really easy to rationalize just getting high because it?s the only time I feel good.
    I know it?s the age old addict dilemma. It?s really tough tho when you?ve lost the things in your life that helped keep you in line, so the other option is so much more appealing.
    Anyway not trying to rant too much but I appreciate everyone who responded.
    I have an appointment with my GP tomorrow and I think I?m just going to level with her, see what my options are medically because I don?t see myself as an NA dude any time soon.
    Thanks again.
    There is a lot of good advice in this thread. I, myself hate AA. I don't like the religion and the labels. I have to define myself by my addictions? Fuck off!

    But anyway, I went to a different group called 'smart recovery' and I like it a lot better. It is more about focusing on your strengths and moving forward. The people there seem more rational than at AA. Anyway, check it out... there might be a group in your area.
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    #10
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    No matter how "experienced" you think you are mixing alcohol and benzos it is a bad, bad idea. I mixed benzos and alcohol for years and was wasted on alcohol and Ativan when I got my DUI and I don't even remember it, just waking up in jail.

    I found acamprosate (Campral) pretty effective for managing PAWS. It not only cut down on a craving for alcohol but also a whole host of other behaviors including impulse buying and obsessing over sex. I'm also on 900mg gabapentin but I've been taking it for years so I don't know that it's even doing anything anymore. I was supposed to take 300mg 3x a day, but it made me weirdly dizzy so I take the whole thing at night and it knocks me out pretty quickly. I've never taken topiramate (Topamax) but people refer to it as "stupomax" for the cognitive side-effects and I've also heard it called "the model drug" because of its appetite suppression and cognitive dysfunction. You really should be asking these questions to a physician specializing in addiction medicine who can better explain if the pros are worth the side effects of each of these meds.
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    #11
    Bluelighter CosmicG's Avatar
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    It would be in your best interest to start tapering that phenibut man. It should he fairly painless considering you have klonopin. Fasoracetam can help also though I am not sure how effective it would be taking into consideration the alcohol and other drugs. You mention you have it under control, but you are maintaining at best here.

    You've already recieved sone sound advice here which you have acknowledged and I think that it is a good sign. I completely understand how scary the thought of getting off all drugs and going down that road to repair a brain that has been stuck on drugs, especially gabaergics for years, is so don't even think about that right now.

    Get to where you are only on your prescribed meds for a period of time and then make that decision. Whatever you decide to do, make sure you do it very slowly or you will relapse.
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    #12
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    Trust me I get it. I have 2 DUI's, my first I had a withdrawal seizure behind the wheel from xanax withdrawal, and my second was from mixing alcohol with klonopin. Needless to say, I go the books thrown at me, and I'm scared shitless to ever get behind the wheel even slightly intoxicated. It's been 10 years, and I haven't driven anything but stone cold sober. I get what you're saying, but I was literally scared straight after my second DUI. I also take full responsibility for my actions and realize I could have really hurt someone or myself.

    I'm a lucky dude.

    I'm interested in Gabapentin, to help get off phenibut and to possibly help regulate my GABA system in general. Maybe a slow taper. Also I have a ton of baclofen, which I hate, but it basically nullify's phenibut withdrawal. The problem with Phenibut for me, is that it gets me out in the world, it literally helps me function better. My main defense has always been not having access to certain substances, so phenibut is super dangerous. I know I probably sound weak as all hell but I'm just being honest, no point to lie.

    Bottom line, I feel like I know in my heart or hearts that I need to get off everything, which involves inpatient rehab and then a long road of hard work. I just need to get to the point where I'm ready to do it. I'm not there yet, and I've already lost everything several times. I don't know what it is, but it's seeped deep in my soul.

    I came off klonopin once, and I was a mess for 6 months. I'm too old to be able to go through that again (not work, not support myself etc.) so it's like being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    Anyway, I appreciate everyone's insights and advice. I have some serious soul searching to do.
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    #13
    Bluelighter Runningfox's Avatar
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    I vote for rehab. If you are unemployed right now then why not grab the opportunity
    Also-- it'll sort out what meds you need to Be on, new ones that will help the transition process and get you off / away from the ones you are abusing. Voluntary rehab-- if it's not helping you can always walk out. That's my vote.
    -- Fox
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    #14
    Shadowmeister
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    Wow those are HUGE doses of phenibut, over time you will give yourself liver issues with that. Baclofen actually does help with phenibut withdrawal, as does gabapentin. I think rehab is probably your best bet, but if possible try to get off one thing at a time. It will be less horrific that way, although it will take longer.
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