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Thread: the official ce&p debate thread v1.0 discussion

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    the official ce&p debate thread v1.0 discussion 
    #1
    Bluelight Crew alasdairm's Avatar
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    hey guys,

    i have been kicking this idea around for a while now and would love to get it going.

    i'd like to start a formal, monthly issue debate where two people take on an issue. it would be kind of like an online election debate. each person writes an opening statement. they then get to ask each other, say, three questions and each respond. they then each post a 'closing argument'. then we have a day or two of questions from everybody and responses from the 'candidates'. after that we have a vote and declare a winner.

    we can fine tune the process as we go so i'd like to kick this off by asking for two things:

    1. suggestions for motions to debate.

    we can be open to just about anything but try to pose a question rather than a generalized political issue e.g. instead of suggesting "taxes", you'd suggest "does lowering the federal corporate tax rate create jobs?" so that one person can argue the pro position and the other the con.

    if you want to propose a question, just respond in this thread: the official ce&p debate thread v1.0 questions and nominations

    2. nominations for participants

    anybody interested in debating, please just nominate yourself in that same thread.

    once we have topics and participants, we can ask people which question they'd like to debate and from which side.

    any questions, post in here.

    thanks!

    alasdair
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    #2
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    Very cool idea.
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    #3
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    Mmm. There are things I like about this idea, a lot, and things I feel a little hesitant about. The big one is the voting. Which isn't to say that I have any better ideas about how to do it, not yet anyhow. But my concern is that the voting will not be a very good reflection of the strength of the argument.

    I could be totally 100% wrong in what I'm about to say, I've never been in a debate team or anything like that, but I have this impression in my head that formal debates generally involve an audience that's fairly neutral. Obviously we don't have that here. My concern is that the voting part of the debate will simply reflect the existing opinion of CE&P. Much as I'd love to be wrong, I don't imagine many people would vote against their existing opinion on a subject on the grounds that the other side made a better argument. Let alone be convinced by it.

    Maybe that's not a big problem, but that's the part I feel a little concerned about.

    Presumably while the debate part is running the thread would be intended to be contributed to only by the participants and people asking questions. Anyone not already a nominated debater wouldn't be permitted to make their own arguments. Presumably that would just have to be done with ordinary moderator oversight. To prevent others being disruptive.

    It's probably possible though, if this idea really took off. You could probably create a debate subforum under CE&P. And switch it to requiring moderator approval before posts become public. I don't think you can do that for just an individual thread, but you could do it with a debate subforum. It might also help make it neater. It might also reduce the number of participants, so if something like that were to be done it should probably be phased in. So like, have it relatively informal for the first debated here in CE&P, then if there are any problems or disruptions, a new subforum could be created and set to require approval for posts. A similar idea along these lines that might work later down the line is you could create new member categories for debaters to be put in for the duration of the debate. They could post without approval, but not delete or close or move threads or posts.

    Just some thoughts about how this might best be accomplished.

    There's a lot I like about this idea. I just wonder about how best the voting side might operate. One of the reasons so many political discussions here often feel so pointless to me is that good points get forgotten as new people chime in who haven't read from the beginning. Among various other problems. A more structured environment could make for some very interesting discussions.

    I suspect bluelight leans left, that would make sense and has been my observation. So it would be somewhat unfortunate if every debates voting outcome always had a foregone conclusion. For this reason it might be best not to suggest that the outcome of the vote is a reflection of who "won" the debate.

    Or, another possibility, might be having 2 votes, one before the debate and 1 after. Still imperfect especially with the low numbers but it might be a better representation of the strength of the argument.
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    #4
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    It would be interesting to have an opposite debate example being sj has to state a case in support of ending refugee intake. If he could do that. Or jgrimez support for Hillary clinton
    Last edited by zephyr; 06-05-2018 at 16:20.
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    #5
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    That's actually a really cool idea. Unfortunately I think there will be a heavy volunteer shortage, but I like the idea a lot in principle.

    There have been a few instances where I've read someone arguing about something and thought to myself "man, not that I agree with anything your saying, but that's the best argument you could come up with? I could make a better argument than that and I don't even believe it".
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    #6
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    We had to do that as a debate challenge as a kid. It's difficult but technically more balanced and would be pretty funny
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    #7
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    The other issue apart from getting volunteers is the level of seriousness. If it weren't taken seriously to start with it wouldn't matter, but I suspect many would be inclined to take covert shots to the position they're supposedly supporting. But that's another way you could make that even more meta. Having to argue for your position in the style of arguing for the opposite position.

    I.E. Trump has been a fantastic leader, few have done more to the unite the left together in reminding them of their common enemy.
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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by zephyr View Post
    Or jgrimez support for Hillary clinton
    /error404doesnotcompute
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    #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGrimez View Post
    /error404doesnotcompute
    Hah! I knew it, JGrimez is a Russian bot!
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by JessFR View Post
    Hah! I knew it, JGrimez is a Russian bot!
    Blyat. Release more Cllinton email
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    #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JessFR View Post
    I suspect bluelight leans left, that would make sense and has been my observation. So it would be somewhat unfortunate if every debates voting outcome always had a foregone conclusion. For this reason it might be best not to suggest that the outcome of the vote is a reflection of who "won" the debate.
    if thats a legitimate concern, then its yet another good reason why people should debate from premises they dont necessarily agree with, like you debating in favor of progressive positions or spacejunk debating in favor of conservative positions. its good for the debaters because it gives them more perspective and knowledge on issues, and it should alleviate worries of votes being cast based on bias against the debaters. debating against one's own normal premises will help make one's arguments stronger because they'll see all the weaknesses and flaws in their usual arguments while building a case against it.
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    #12
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    Debating the other side is good, so when you get an envelope full of money to change your position, it doesn't take a lot of original thought to get on the gravy train. Like any self-respecting politician.
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    #13
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    Maybe people could see from other peoples perspectives how they see the world and maybe not agree but not write each other off so quick
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    #14
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    Maybe Jah could get a guest spot. Not sure if enlightened enough though.
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