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Thread: Kanye West on TMZ; Opioid Addiction, Schizophrenia

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    The problem isn't that some people are awake and some are asleep, or some are brainwashed and some aren't. It's just the depressing reality that average intelligence just really isn't that intelligent.

    Which really sucks because it means it's not even anyone's fault, and it's not something you can fight or fix. If it really were that most people were brainwashed or conditioned then there might be hope. But if most people are just kinda dumb, there's not a lot you can do.
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    BTH in CA is not "fire"; ECP is superior.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cream Gravy? View Post
    ^Mannnn, you can't act like san fran is a larger representation of anything but itself. Fuckin' kids younger than me driving Aston Martins they for no reason whatsoever had painted matte black, because they have some BS tech job selling non-existent products. I love California, but I fuckin' hate San Fran.

    And it's not like there's not insulated cultures elsewhere. Where I live, there's Trump/Maga stickers all over and people can't comprehend the very existence of alternative thinking. The nature of humans is to gravitate towards places where they feel accepted. Hence why I want to leave here.

    You can't act like anyone who doesn't share your opinions and beliefs is simply wrong and taking the 'blue pill'. I'm sure many here think you've taken the blue pill. I'm sure you think I have. Who's to know who's right?
    droppersneck doesn't know CA has its blue pockets.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JessFR View Post
    The problem isn't that some people are awake and some are asleep, or some are brainwashed and some aren't. It's just the depressing reality that average intelligence just really isn't that intelligent.

    Which really sucks because it means it's not even anyone's fault, and it's not something you can fight or fix. If it really were that most people were brainwashed or conditioned then there might be hope. But if most people are just kinda dumb, there's not a lot you can do.
    I like how you worded this. I found a case study that might give you a small bit of hope.


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    ^ that just tells me that smarter people are more likely to see sense in the theory of evolution. they also happen to be more likely to be liberal.

    what's your point?

    alasdair
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    Unfortunately that doesn't give me as much hope as I might prefer. Thing is, it feels to me like even if you believe the right thing, if it's for all the wrong reasons that's not much better. It might be a little better but it's far from ideal.

    Religion is just one aspect of it, I don't see religion as much different than most political ideologies, in that most aren't believed because of a well thought out and complex set of layered views. Where all the fundamental philosophical positions have been thought out then all the layers of positions put on top of it until you have a final conclusion. They're more like adopted views due to sociological compulsions. For example, the social pressure to either conform to a group, or alternatively to rebel from a group. Or a preexisting presumption that biases everything else that winds up trapping a lot of people. So the might believe the "right" thing, or as close as you get anyway, and on the surface it might seem to be for the right reasons. But for most it won't remain consistently coherent and reasonable if you keep asking "but why?" all the way down to the fundamental layers if they even exist.

    As an example, let's say someone believes in medical Marijuana. OK why do you believe that?

    Then they say "because of all the harm on the war on drugs and Marijuana itself is not harmful."

    Then you gotta ask how do you know both those statements are true, and if they're true, why do they mean we should have medical Marijuana.

    At which point hopefully they'd say they know because of personal experience and evidence. Then you gotta ask how you evaluate if the evidence is good or not. How do you evaluate if you've fallen victim to flawed perceptions or not. How much do you know about the flaws of human perception and how you do science? How do you evaluate if evidence is likely to be true? How do you evaluate what makes something fundamentally desirable or not? One question resulting in another getting more and more abstract. A fully reasoned, layered position is a huge mental exercise often requiring a lot of background knowledge about subjects many don't find interesting and involving a way of thinking many don't find entirely intuitive. Most people will have gaps and assumptions somewhere along the way. Making their position ultimately an arbitrary one born more from social pressures and such.

    And unfortunately, enormous social harm comes from mistaken beliefs. And having mistaken beliefs, is just a normal fact of life and being human. Even the smartest and wisest of people will be prone to making such mistakes if they aren't constantly vigilant and self questioning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cduggles View Post
    And this is why I never answer you.
    Why because you disagree? That's fine but feel free to explain why

    Quote Originally Posted by cduggles View Post
    Your "black friend" is apparently racist.
    I told him what you said and he goes "well at least they admit that black people can be racist. That's a good start".


    Quote Originally Posted by JessFR View Post
    I for one think a little less of anyone who seriously uses this blue pill red pill shit no matter what the context is. I find it to be a strange mix of insulting, lame, pretentious, and stupid all rolled into one.

    Seriously, it's just silly. It's like a much lamer version of saying someone is drinking the kool-aid, only with the opposite implication, yet also still kinda the same.
    You blue-pilled folk will get it one day.
    (tho you're pretty redpilled when it comes to guns)
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    Quote Originally Posted by alasdairm View Post
    ^ that just tells me that smarter people are more likely to see sense in the theory of evolution. they also happen to be more likely to be liberal.

    what's your point?

    alasdair
    Education has the possibility to prevent stupidity.


    Quote Originally Posted by JessFR View Post
    the fundamental layers if they even exist.
    In mathematics we call these axioms. Example: The existence of zero is an axiom.

    In religion they may call it God.

    Conservatives may call it red pill.

    What do you feel innately you were born knowing? What kind of data can you extract from this knowledge?
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    Some businesses, farms in particular, are experiencing an inability to fill all the jobs they need because they relied on cheap immigrant physical labor. Fact is, not enough Americans even want those jobs. Our economy has benefited from cheap immigrant labor for a long time. Additionally, the vast majority of social safety net costs are spent on Americans, not illegal immigrants. In fact, since they're illegal immigrants, they're not even eligible for most (not all) federal safety net programs. Building this ridiculous wall costs an obscene amount of money. And how about the cost of dispatching the military to the border to make a big show of stopping a "caravan" of scary illegal immigrant families? It's more naunced than you're making it out to be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xorkoth View Post
    Some businesses, farms in particular, are experiencing an inability to fill all the jobs they need because they relied on cheap immigrant physical labor. Fact is, not enough Americans even want those jobs. Our economy has benefited from cheap immigrant labor for a long time. Additionally, the vast majority of social safety net costs are spent on Americans, not illegal immigrants. In fact, since they're illegal immigrants, they're not even eligible for most (not all) federal safety net programs. Building this ridiculous wall costs an obscene amount of money. And how about the cost of dispatching the military to the border to make a big show of stopping a "caravan" of scary illegal immigrant families? It's more naunced than you're making it out to be.
    The blue pill arguments have been destroyed time and time again. We should pay more for produce in order for the farmers to pay the market wage. It’s not rocket science folks, Americans are willing to do these jobs, just not below market wage. Picking blueberries is just as hard as many office jobs, if not harder. Manual labor should be afforded a market wage like any other type of labor do you not agree?
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    I do agree with that, yes. Although that only addresses one of my points.

    I'm not saying we should have unregulated immigration, but throwing out people we already told could stay, people who have been living here their whole lives or almost their whole lives, is wrong. Deporting refugees back to where they escaped from is wrong. Building a wall is stupid and wasteful. The frenzy about immigration right now is being used as a political tool. That wall is never going to get built, it's all talk to get people to vote for who they want.

    One of my best friends, a Bluelighter, was a refugee from the soviet union and came here with his family when he was 4. He's an American, he doesn't have an accent, he doesn't remember anything but living here, but years ago, he got arrested for weed and found out he wasn't actually a citizen, and they tried to deport him back to Russia where he knows no one. Fortunately his girlfriend was a paralegal at the time and worked it out and now he's a citizen. It would have been wrong to deport him, too. I'm glad that didn't happen during the past 2 years.
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    Those are mostly emotional blue pill arguments addressed adnauseum. Your Russian friend stayed bc he came here legally. We accept refugees but that threat needs to be evaluated by courts and not just assumed to be legitimate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Droppersneck View Post
    The blue pill arguments have been destroyed time and time again. We should pay more for produce in order for the farmers to pay the market wage. It’s not rocket science folks, Americans are willing to do these jobs, just not below market wage. Picking blueberries is just as hard as many office jobs, if not harder. Manual labor should be afforded a market wage like any other type of labor do you not agree?
    The price of food should be low.

    Why should produce cost so much?

    Mexico will export more food to US.

    I want US produce at a low price.

    Only the ignorant would advocate for high food prices and high gas prices.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Heroin View Post
    The price of food should be low.

    Why should produce cost so much?

    Mexico will export more food to US.

    I want US produce at a low price.

    Only the ignorant would advocate for high food prices and high gas prices.
    In the end, the goal should be affordability. It needs to be a balance of low prices and higher wages. It doesn't make sense to totally dismiss either. The ideal situation would be for low level employees/laborers in industries like agriculture and food service to be paid a living wage. If that means prices go up a little, there needs to be cuts up top, as in the millionaire and billionaire executives. That's where the waste is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGrimez View Post
    Why because you disagree? That's fine but feel free to explain why
    I've tried and I'm done. Apparently the reading comprehension aspect is still an issue?

    I don't have to fact-check you, reply to you or explain why I think conspiracy theories are bunk.

    I told him what you said and he goes "well at least they admit that black people can be racist. That's a good start".
    First of all, I don't believe this guy exists.

    Second, I never said anyone couldn't be racist, regardless of their skin color. That's something I would never say. There are non-white people who talk about their racism around me because I'm blood, so I'm aware.

    And which "they" am I part of? Liberals? SJWs? A non-red piller? Ooh.

    It's so tired:

    Everyone who can't stand Trump is not "liberal".

    CH, who is libertarian, didn't vote for Obama. Or like Obama.

    I know that North Korea is a horrible place to live for everyone but a small elite. And even then one's safety is tenuous.

    I'm aware that people of many races can express racism.

    How will your red-pilled brain incorporate this information? Does it help to know I'm an upper middle class lizard leader learning your ways?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal3volent View Post
    In the end, the goal should be affordability. It needs to be a balance of low prices and higher wages. It doesn't make sense to totally dismiss either. The ideal situation would be for low level employees/laborers in industries like agriculture and food service to be paid a living wage. If that means prices go up a little, there needs to be cuts up top, as in the millionaire and billionaire executives. That's where the waste is.
    Of course it makes sense to prevent wages from going up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Heroin View Post
    Of course it makes sense to prevent wages from going up.
    It does? I don't get what you're getting at.
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    It spurs on inflation. It doesn't address a plethora of other issues, like the budget crisis vs. extremely low unemployment, perpetual unemployment levels that will always hover around 4%, etc. It creates new problems as well as ignoring these.

    US could be doing more to increase the value of the USD

    Who do you think ultimately pays for the wage increase? The consumer (who is also at the brink of being broke and can't truly afford an across-the-board increase on prices of all products). The CEO's will always take a giant bonus home every year.

    How are we going to fix the problem that the average American can't afford food? We subsidize it, like we do with grains. Adds to the national debt, and who's going to pay it down? The average American household, through income tax.

    That's why Trump said "everyone's getting lower taxes!" even though the lower-income families saved very little, whereas the wealthy reaped all the benefits.

    Pay it now, pay it later, pay it never. America prefers the latter two options, which is truly insane.

    Then state governments will go broke, levy more property taxes. The average American families who can't afford this will lose their home. Housing crisis, part 2.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Heroin View Post
    It spurs on inflation. It doesn't address a plethora of other issues, like the budget crisis vs. extremely low unemployment, perpetual unemployment levels that will always hover around 4%, etc. It creates new problems as well as ignoring these.

    US could be doing more to increase the value of the USD

    Who do you think ultimately pays for the wage increase? The consumer (who is also at the brink of being broke and can't truly afford an across-the-board increase on prices of all products). The CEO's will always take a giant bonus home every year.

    How are we going to fix the problem that the average American can't afford food? We subsidize it, like we do with grains. Adds to the national debt, and who's going to pay it down? The average American household, through income tax.

    That's why Trump said "everyone's getting lower taxes!" even though the lower-income families saved very little, whereas the wealthy reaped all the benefits.

    Pay it now, pay it later, pay it never. America prefers the latter two options, which is truly insane.

    Then state governments will go broke, levy more property taxes. The average American families who can't afford this will lose their home. Housing crisis, part 2.
    Oh okay. Well I think the libertarian philosophy is nice in principle but ignores/minimizes the disruptive greed of the executives I mentioned earlier. It's too academic or theoretical I guess you could say. What's fucking shit up is not high wages for workers or inflation or taxes. It's a relatively small group of assholes who have no problem trampling over people below them. The wealth is so concentrated and as long as we are so hyper focused on making the commoners pay off the debt (instead of addressing the fundamental unfairness of the system) that will never change.
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    People don't have to support corporations they don't believe in.

    US public education doesn't teach anyone to think for themselves. It teaches you to be a consumer.

    We need to eliminate the income tax. Rich people will always avoid it, and the rich speculate on the way things are going (i.e. encouraging the mudslide to continue sliding and shitting all over the rest of us) to continue raking in the money (Bush and Cheney made out big, Trump's raking in the bribes through Cohen, Trump complained about Obama and the Clinton duo doing pay-to-play but the Republicans will always be worse at it).

    Deflating the wealth and overall income of the US government, shrinking the size of the federal government, is the right direction. Paying off the national debt is the surefire way to keep things going in the right direction, and it's something no major party politician wants to do.
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    I think it should just be illegal for CEOs to be able to give themselves whatever pay they want. It should have been illegal for CEOs of corporations to disperse the money from the massive tax cuts they got to themselves and to shareholders only. It should have been capped. It's the same as when the government bailed out the airlines and the CEOs gave themselves huge bonuses with it, for running their companies into the ground. The misallocation of wealth by the super-wealthy is the biggest problem in this country. No one needs hundreds of millions, or billions, of dollars to survive, they could live lives of luxury with tiny fractions of that amount. We have a massive national debt, and a rising poverty level, and crumbling infrastructure, and increasingly stupid people, and people are struggling to make ends meet more and more. And yet they're trying to further eliminate social safety nets, and gut public education, and so on and so on, so they can get even more money. It's fucking sick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Heroin View Post
    People don't have to support corporations they don't believe in.
    Not always true. There are industries (for example ISPs in many places, and power companies, etc) where there is only one real option. And lack of ability to afford food leaves fast food as the only real option for food most of the time. There are other examples too. And in any case, even if people could choose other companies, it's still absurd for the people at the top to be making SO much money when so many others are struggling to survive.

    And you know, I'm lucky that I went to a state school because my family instilled that in me, and helped me with tuition, and I don't have any debt and got into a good job in computer science where I can choose to not support companies I don't believe in. But a lot of people are basically forced into choosing from among several options that are equally terrible, because they're the only affordable ones, because they didn't have the same opportunities. And even if we all did have the same opportunities, we need some people to work the lowest-level jobs. So some people are going to be stuck in this endless cycle of poverty and very little choices.

    US public education doesn't teach anyone to think for themselves. It teaches you to be a consumer.
    Agreed. We also need to fix education. We used to be the world leader in education. Now, not even close.

    We need to eliminate the income tax. Rich people will always avoid it, and the rich speculate on the way things are going (i.e. encouraging the mudslide to continue sliding and shitting all over the rest of us) to continue raking in the money (Bush and Cheney made out big, Trump's raking in the bribes through Cohen, Trump complained about Obama and the Clinton duo doing pay-to-play but the Republicans will always be worse at it).

    Deflating the wealth and overall income of the US government, shrinking the size of the federal government, is the right direction. Paying off the national debt is the surefire way to keep things going in the right direction, and it's something no major party politician wants to do.
    But then how do we pay for infrastructure, social services, and so on?
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    You can always get satellite internet. You're never stuck to one option re: ISP's.

    Fixing education is impossible. It is top-down corrupt, just like the CIA, the the NSA, FCC, FDC and the IRS.

    We've got a lot of people we need to fire.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xorkoth View Post
    But then how do we pay for infrastructure, social services, and so on?
    Corporate income taxes (I should have specified individual income tax should be abolished), excises, estate taxes and so on.
    Specifically all tobacco and alcohol taxes need to be reallocated (the $2 California cig tax goes to tacky TV ads that show teens vaping and other inane shit).

    We'll do just fine once we get spending under control.

    It'd help if states that fail were held accountable for their failures...

    Also, we need to get rid of ICE and the DEA. Totally useless shit. Should have put that in the above post.
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    I can utterly agree with the getting rid of the DEA/the drug war. What a titanic waste of money which is and will always be an utter failure.

    I wouldn't mind paying income tax at all if I knew it was being spent wisely. If we could have a sustainable system where only corporations/businesses paid income tax, I'd be okay with that too (I mean that would be great), just not sure if it would be enough, I mean, 300 million peoples' income taxes are a shit ton of money (or however many working people there are I mean). And yeah, taxes from drugs (which would be legal) including alcohol and tobacco, as well as sales tax, gas tax, etc would help a lot. Just look at Colorado for how legalization/taxation of drugs can go... I visited the Denver region last Fall and saw the most beautifully new infrastructure I've ever seen in this country. All that tax revenue... they've got their shit together.

    Also agreed that if we got spending under control, things would be so much better, and if we had never let it get how it is now we'd probably still be doing great.
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    Denver was already a decent city to begin with.

    It’s not like MMJ tax $ is uplifting south central or downtown LA at all.

    Paying 30-40% is insane and I doubt it would really help much. CA and OR are wiser than WA for not throwing up such a huge tax.
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