How often is too often to take MDMA? Realistically

[MrFearless]

I've taken very pure MDMA 3 times. (October 8th, December 1st, and February 10th) Would I be able to take it again on May 12th? (3 months and 2 days between the last time I took it) I don't want to have any negative side affects on my body. I'm just looking for some advice on if it's safe or not.

 

[Hilopsilo]

I think thats certainly enough time, very safe. A lot of figures get thrown out and there hasn't been a ton of scientific research on it; there isn't some doctor-prescribed agreed upon wait time between doses. We've just got a lot of anecdotes and can sort of tease out whats too often and whats ok. IMO there should be at very least a month between rolls. I've never heard of anyone losing the magic or having any problems from taking it once a month.

I've been rolling for ~8 years, I've never "lost the magic" and still take the same dose of 100mg. I've taken breaks as long as almost a year, but a couple years back there was a summer that I rolled 7 times in a 4.5 month period, rolled two days in a row 3 separate times that summer (and one other time at the beginning). Experienced no negative effects, comedowns or reduced strength in a 100mg dose. This was probably the most frequent I've ever rolled. And even then, that entire year I only rolled 8 times, they were just concentrated in the summer.

Sounds like you're taking the necessary precautions! You can certainly roll then. I personally like taking big breaks, for me taking MDMA feels like a big event and the longer you wait in between the better its going to be. I haven't rolled in ~8 months now just for lack of an occasion deserving of its use.

EDIT: as the sticky here says; generally accepted that its good practice to wait a minimum of a month between taking MDMA. A lot of the reports I read of people on here having issues either had them after taking it the first time (good or bad product), or they were abusing it for weeks on end, even taking once or twice every weekend.

 

[MrFearless]

I think thats certainly enough time, very safe. A lot of figures get thrown out and there hasn't been a ton of scientific research on it; there isn't some doctor-prescribed agreed upon wait time between doses. We've just got a lot of anecdotes and can sort of tease out whats too often and whats ok. IMO there should be at very least a month between rolls. I've never heard of anyone losing the magic or having any problems from taking it once a month.

I've been rolling for ~8 years, I've never "lost the magic" and still take the same dose of 100mg. I've taken breaks as long as almost a year, but a couple years back there was a summer that I rolled 7 times in a 4.5 month period, rolled two days in a row 3 separate times that summer (and one other time at the beginning). Experienced no negative effects, comedowns or reduced strength in a 100mg dose. This was probably the most frequent I've ever rolled. And even then, that entire year I only rolled 8 times, they were just concentrated in the summer.

Sounds like you're taking the necessary precautions! You can certainly roll then. I personally like taking big breaks, for me taking MDMA feels like a big event and the longer you wait in between the better its going to be. I haven't rolled in ~8 months now just for lack of an occasion deserving of its use.

EDIT: as the sticky here says; generally accepted that its good practice to wait a minimum of a month between taking MDMA. A lot of the reports I read of people on here having issues either had them after taking it the first time (good or bad product), or they were abusing it for weeks on end, even taking once or twice every weekend.

Thanks for the info. The first time I took 250mg over the night and the other times I took 200mg over the night. Is that too much?

 

[Beenhead]

Alexander Shulgin's suggestion is 120mg with a 40mg supplemental dose. However, you can probably mess around with these numbers. Going much over 200 is just not needed with good MDMA.

These 220 and higher mg Dutch pills I think are meant to be halved. You are probably too young to remember the "Double Stacked" lingo... which probably meant nothing and was before you could easily have pills quantified. But these are true double stacked pills. Hell we even had what was called triple stacked!

 

[isaaccain]

I think it depends on the person. When I did MDMA once a week I had no negative effects, but a friend of mine has done MDMA three times IN TOTAL and suffers psychosis from it. When I started to do it twice a week I began to suffer attention problems, and eventually I'd do it four times in a week some weeks, which was when I began to really notice the negative effects. Shulgin says four times a year (I think), so once every three months. He knows what he's talking about more than me.

 

[G_Chem]

This is so highly debated, and after looking on Reddit it appears some people take it all very seriously (which I think is probably a good thing moreso than bad). I feel I had my part in it as I've been posting the past decade about the importance of managing frequency and at one point even touted once a year..

Below I'll go over my evidence based opinion on the matter as well as squash some beliefs 99% of people have about frequency of use.

1-4 times a year is ideal.
5-7 times a year is safe with minimal problems.
8-10 times a year is pushing it and after a few years of use in this frequency range people typically start to feel the negatives (i.e. tolerance, comedowns, etc)

Anything beyond 10 times a year is too much and while some can use once a month each year on average, many cannot. Typically it takes a year or two at this usage to feel the nastiness but it'll come and once it does it's hard to go back.


Now above notice how I use the term "times per year" as an average. Most equate this to equally spaced intervals between each experience and god forbid you take two doses a week apart, you'll die from SS (sarcasm). Again I feel I've been partly to blame for this over the years as for most people this is probably the best way to go.

Reason being is many people have issues controlling their use. For people like these, telling them it's actually ok to dose close together so long as you meet your yearly average, is a ticket to problematic usage.

Which brings me to my point.. Dosing two days in a row is not dangerous, and in fact depending on how you supplement and care for yourself it could actually be safer.

It's called "preconditioning" and there are quite a few studies regarding mdma and this topic. Research shows that non-neurotoxic doses of mdma taken each day for four days before a neurotoxic dose attenuated the toxicity and serotonin depletion.

Take note the preconditioning doses were 10mg/kg once a day for four days, and the neurotoxic dose was 10mg/kg 4 times spaced 2 hours apart.

(Ref: Repeated exposure to mdma provides neuroprotection against subsequent mdma induced serotonin depletion in brain. 2009.)

This combined with the other neurotoxicity research out there indicates this to me. Dosing a single reasonable dose once a day for four days will be significantly less damaging than dosing those same four doses in the same night.

Anecdotal reports as well as my own experiences seems to indicate this is true. On to my experience...

I've been taking mdma for the past 13 years, I've been a good boy and just like hilo my dose has stayed the same all these years. The most I've taken in a year has been 8 doses.

With that said, almost every year 4 of my typically 6 or so experiences are back to back. I like to roll two days in a row at festivals. Typical wisdom should tell you I'm a vegetable by now, or that my second experience on those occasions is shit, neither is true.

It is my belief that this type of use could actually be safer for the neurons than spaced equally apart each year. There's only one catch that can make that untrue..

After an MDMA experience your antioxidant system has taken a huge hit and needs replenishing, if it doesn't get this you'll be vulnerable to the 400% increase in free radicals come the second experience the next night. Eating healthy and supplementing is key to make sure this doesn't happen.

Now while I believe in the safety dosing two days in a row (and by that I mean two separate experiences each night with reasonable doses, not a second dose the following morning to keep the party going) I don't feel it's smart to go beyond that. I've done it myself a few times with little repercussions but after two consecutive experiences the negatives outweigh the positives.. Plus if your keeping to a yearly average it's kind of a waste to have 3 days in a row and much easier to fall into problematic usage.

So there you have it folks.. It's not so much about closeness of your dosing as it is your yearly average.

-GC

 

[Hilopsilo]

This is so highly debated, and after looking on Reddit it appears some people take it all very seriously (which I think is probably a good thing moreso than bad). I feel I had my part in it as I've been posting the past decade about the importance of managing frequency and at one point even touted once a year..

Below I'll go over my evidence based opinion on the matter as well as squash some beliefs 99% of people have about frequency of use.

1-4 times a year is ideal.
5-7 times a year is safe with minimal problems.
8-10 times a year is pushing it and after a few years of use in this frequency range people typically start to feel the negatives (i.e. tolerance, comedowns, etc)

Anything beyond 10 times a year is too much and while some can use once a month each year on average, many cannot. Typically it takes a year or two at this usage to feel the nastiness but it'll come and once it does it's hard to go back.


Now above notice how I use the term "times per year" as an average. Most equate this to equally spaced intervals between each experience and god forbid you take two doses a week apart, you'll die from SS (sarcasm). Again I feel I've been partly to blame for this over the years as for most people this is probably the best way to go.

Reason being is many people have issues controlling their use. For people like these, telling them it's actually ok to dose close together so long as you meet your yearly average, is a ticket to problematic usage.

Which brings me to my point.. Dosing two days in a row is not dangerous, and in fact depending on how you supplement and care for yourself it could actually be safer.

It's called "preconditioning" and there are quite a few studies regarding mdma and this topic. Research shows that non-neurotoxic doses of mdma taken each day for four days before a neurotoxic dose attenuated the toxicity and serotonin depletion.

Take note the preconditioning doses were 10mg/kg once a day for four days, and the neurotoxic dose was 10mg/kg 4 times spaced 2 hours apart.

(Ref: Repeated exposure to mdma provides neuroprotection against subsequent mdma induced serotonin depletion in brain. 2009.)

This combined with the other neurotoxicity research out there indicates this to me. Dosing a single reasonable dose once a day for four days will be significantly less damaging than dosing those same four doses in the same night.

Anecdotal reports as well as my own experiences seems to indicate this is true. On to my experience...

I've been taking mdma for the past 13 years, I've been a good boy and just like hilo my dose has stayed the same all these years. The most I've taken in a year has been 8 doses.

With that said, almost every year 4 of my typically 6 or so experiences are back to back. I like to roll two days in a row at festivals. Typical wisdom should tell you I'm a vegetable by now, or that my second experience on those occasions is shit, neither is true.

It is my belief that this type of use could actually be safer for the neurons than spaced equally apart each year. There's only one catch that can make that untrue..

After an MDMA experience your antioxidant system has taken a huge hit and needs replenishing, if it doesn't get this you'll be vulnerable to the 400% increase in free radicals come the second experience the next night. Eating healthy and supplementing is key to make sure this doesn't happen.

Now while I believe in the safety dosing two days in a row (and by that I mean two separate experiences each night with reasonable doses, not a second dose the following morning to keep the party going) I don't feel it's smart to go beyond that. I've done it myself a few times with little repercussions but after two consecutive experiences the negatives outweigh the positives.. Plus if your keeping to a yearly average it's kind of a waste to have 3 days in a row and much easier to fall into problematic usage.

So there you have it folks.. It's not so much about closeness of your dosing as it is your yearly average.

-GC

Those numbers are probably a bit on the conservative side, but thats good and I agree with it as a guideline. Like I said I think the most I've taken in a year was 8, and average is probably like 4 or 5, never once had a single negative effect, ever. For me personally, my rule of rule of thumb is just never exceed more than 12 doses in a year (average 1/month), and NEVER more than twice in one month alone.

I also think the key is sticking with a dose that works for you and never exceeding that. For me thats 100mg, I weigh ~130 pounds and I've found I am more sensitive to the stuff than other people around my same weight, so YMMV. Even rolling twice in a row, 100mg feels just as powerful on the second day as the first, if not more powerful weirdly enough (I'd never dare try a third night). If you notice diminishing effects from your control-dose, then you know you're taking it too often. I have a couple friends that by the third day of a festival in which they rolled every night, they took 10x100mg over the course of the last night and barely got that high. I don't think either of them got negative effects afterwards, but even though that was 2 years ago 100mg now just doesn't do it for them.

Just don't get sucked into doing a bunch of it, from going to festivals it never fails to amaze me how a good amount of people just guzzle this shit down for days on end.

 

[Ionized]

For me personally, my rule of rule of thumb is just never exceed more than 12 doses in a year (average 1/month), and NEVER more than twice in one month alone.

That is crazy. I have EXACTLY the same rule myself.

 

[G_Chem]

@Hilo- Those numbers, while could be considered conservative, is the guideline that should be followed by anyone who is hoping to use the drug indefinitely. While some can do once a month and be alright, I'd be willing to bet a majority would start to notice a change over a number of years. My hope is for everyone to be able to enjoy this drug as long as possible and with the greatest benefits possible.

With that said I think the rest of that advice is spot on. Number one way to know your taking it too much for your own personal chemistry is whether you need more to achieve the same effect, research shows when the neurotoxicity is negated (via antioxidants or other mechanisms) the tolerance does not rise. Dosage per session is more important to keep an eye on than total sessions per year, but of course both should be watched.

I too have watched countless people dose insane amounts trying to keep the fun going longer than necessary... That's the reason I've been in a number of friend groups over my time in "the scene." I watched as people jumped in, dose excessively, burnt out then "moved on." I've tried warning them all but to no avail, even my own brother.. It sucks to be an "old timer" (compared to the 18-24yr olds commonly found) still rolling hard and wishing those people could still be there with you doing the same..

It's cool to see that mentality slowly changing though and I suppose I'd rather have people too worried about overdoing it than jaded ravers burnt out from too much.

-GC

 

[Hapomen22]

That is crazy. I have EXACTLY the same rule myself.

Actually, that rule is followed by many MDMA users who are conscious of harm reduction techniques.

Personally, I no longer use this "too good of a feeling" drug, but back in the days, I used to stick to the one month rule but sometimes the cravings got the better of me and broke the rules and binged each 2nd or 3rd week on MDMA, just to get f*cked with a 3 months long major depression comedown, sometimes 3 days straight on fire MDA because I wasn't getting harsh comedowns from it. This drug needs to be respected, it is powerfull and can f*ck you up big time if you underestimate it.

 

[Doclad]

Following that pattern of consumption you will lose the magic sooner or later, I am afraid.
When I was younger I took MDMA / MDA regularly, the same way you do. After 1 year it was not the same anymore. So I stopped taking for 4-5 years and when I took it again it was ... buaa! 8)
You have to look at these things with perspective. Is it something you would like to do all your life? Then listen to me. If you want to burn yourself in a couple of years ... well, you're going that way.

Now I like to take MDMA 1 time every 1-2 years with rectal doses, or MDA and 6-APB, and I have an incredible trip.
I hope to do it all my life.


DocLad

 

[indigoaura]

IMO, sounds like you are fine to take it in May.

I have been rolling for 18 years. During the first five years or so, I followed the "never more than once a month" rule that was popular in the harm reduction circle at that time. After I lost a reliable supplier, my pattern changed. In more recent years, I tend to roll maybe 4 times in a year.

I don't think my brain is fried, as I managed to get a graduate degree with honors, maintain respectable employment, and achieve standard worldly successes during the past 18 years as well.

The one thing I would caution is to just be careful of your product. There is a lot of nasty stuff out there, and I have had some horrible comedowns from questionable product. Also, just be in tune to yourself. If you start to feel depressed or not quite right, take a break. Take your vitamins. Keep your brain healthy. I personally had way more problems from alcohol than I ever did from E. I stopped drinking alcohol about a decade ago. Don't miss it at all.