Opioids OTC withdrawal help? + detoxing and RLS?

[Hatter]

Hello.


I don't have a relationship with my doctor, so I can get prescribed clonidine or gabapentin, or robaxin, or anything else. And I don't know anyone who can help me with how to get them through other channels.

So I am wondering, does anyone know if there are OTC medicines which will substitute for them?

For example, in Wikipedia, it says clonidine and lofexidine are alpha-2 adrenergic agonists. It also says that the OTC nasal decongestants xylometazoline and oxymetazoline are alpha-2 adrenergic agonists.

Does that mean that these nasal decongestants will do the same job with quenching the withdrawal symptoms as clonidine will?

Is GHB a substitute for gabapentin? Or is gabapentin completely different from GHB?


Thank you.

 

[phuckingnutz]

You might give Ashwagandha root a go. It's cheap and it seems to work OK.
I believe it acts as a GABA agaonist?
Do some research. A girlfriend of mine used it successfully for anxiety.
Might at least take the edge off.
IME, Gabapentin was the worst, most horrible WD I have EVER gone through and I have gone through most of them.
Kind of like Smack & Valium together. So I feel your pain if you are cold-turkeying off high doses of that shit.

WAait, what, exactly are you WDing from? Opioids or Gabapentin?

If it's opioids then get some Kratom and I guarantee it will ease your the symptoms...maybe not "kill" them, but definitely ease them.
I've used Loperimide too, but it only seems to help a very few of the symptoms whereas Kratom will KILL the RLS which, IMO, is the worst part of opiate WD's.

 

[Hatter]

WAait, what, exactly are you WDing from? Opioids or Gabapentin?.

It's opioids. Fentanyl. I have just seen gabapentin mentioned a lot of places as being good for treating the opioid withdrawal symptoms.

.[/QUOTE]If it's opioids then get some Kratom and I guarantee it will ease your the symptoms...maybe not "kill" them, but definitely ease them.
I've used Loperimide too, but it only seems to help a very few of the symptoms whereas Kratom will KILL the RLS which, IMO, is the worst part of opiate WD's.[/QUOTE]

Yes, the restless legs syndrome, it's horrible. I began having it a few years before I started with fentanyl - maybe because I was an alcoholic?

But now, every time I have come down to a low enough dose, the RLS starts up again, and I can't stand it, so I take the fentanyl to end it.

If anything else can help with that, that would be wonderful. I have often wondered how I will ever come out of fentanyl, if that's the only treatment there is for RLS.

 

[Hatter]

Detoxing and RLS?

Hello.

Wouldn't it be better for me to drop down to maybe 10-20 mg fentanyl per day for two weeks maybe, and then stop cold turkey, using all those "comfort meds" like clonidine and gabapentin to help with RLS, etc., instead of what the doctors want to do, which is switch me to methadone, and later put me on buprenorphine, and slowly ween me off of it over several months?

Won't I then be having RLS for all those months tapering down? And if they will be giving me something like pregbalin or gabapentin for all that time, won't I then be really addicted to that? I heard that getting off of an addiction to gabapentin is even worse than opioids! That wpuld be awful!

What should I do? Should I get off it myself, or put my life in the hands of doctors who may have just about zero experience with detoxing fentanyl or anything else?

Does anybody have any advice for dealing with RLS? I can't stand it.

And I know I get it, when my fentanyl dose gets too low - maybe below 10 mg/day or so.

Back when I last had it, I felt like it was lying in wait, and that it was triggered by something. Maybe sitting down on a chair for too long, or "tensing up" or something, and if I somehow managed to not tense up my muscles, it wouldn't start. I don't know...

Thanks.


Isak

 

[Jabberwocky]

10mg of fent per day isn?t really that low. That is like 100mg morphine. What is your ROA of choice?

Meditation is great for sleepless nights and tension generally, although I personally think it?s kinda difficult just learning from guided meditation. Hey, it is better than nothing. If you want some references to those lemme know.

Switching to methadone or buprenorphine is both more practical and will almost certainly be more effective than trying to taper the fent. I mean, start the taper and see what it?s like. If it?s too much to deal with go with what the doctors are recommended.

There are two things to consider with this...

You?ve been using a long time. It?s taken this long for your body and mind to get used to using opioids like this, so it?s only reasonable to assume the process of getting off will also take a while.

The other thing is that recovery is a life long process. The rush to be done with it all right now is generally quite unproductive IMHO. Just trying to emphasize that there is no rush. You have the rest of your life to figure this out.

Try and thing of it like an investment in your health and well-being. The more time and effort you put into getting sober and off opioids, the better your chances are for success.

The other good thing about taking your time with methadone or buprenorphine is that it will give you plenty of time under circumstances of relative stability (its hard for me to imagine you?d be more stable tapering fent than tapering buprenorphine or methadone) to work on the other things you?ll need to learn for lasting success.

Methadone was great for me because it gave me the stability I needed to figure other stuff out. I doubt I?d have been able to stop using opioids like heroin or methadone or whatever else if I hadn?t spent the 2.5 years I was on methadone (1.5 of them tapering) working on things like learning to meditate, getting into BLs recovery support forums and seeking out peer support groups I felt comfortable with IRL. And finding a doctor who would support me achieve my goals, and find a therapist that was good for me (the doctor and therapist finding took a lot of effort I might add).

That 2.5 years was devoted to creating the foundations for lasting recovery. It isn?t realistic to think that all that needs to be done is to detox, because it takes a lot more than meds as a general rule to avoid relapsing once abstinent. It isn?t necessarily comfortable, but it?s a lot easier to get off opioids than it is to stay off then long term.

The time it takes to manage something like ORT and a proper taper is actually a blessing in disguise.

What is the environmental you?re doing this is? Do you have family supporting you? Peers? Or do you feel you have to keep it all a secret, as so many of us do (for good reason)?

Just trying to gauge your situation a bit more. If you have a family it generally is a good idea to work on getting them onboard with what you?re doing and to get their support.

I?m not suggesting confronting them about this or just laying out all your secrets in front of them. I?m suggesting that family is potentially the single biggest resource in recovery, especially early recovery, and there are skillful ways of enlisting their support.

 

[Larimar]

A heavy weighted blanket and hot baths are the only thing that ever helped me with RLS or a nice long run to tire you out and keep your legs moving . RLS always is what does me in, that and insomnia.

 

[Jabberwocky]

And how could I forget...

Hot baths or showers are a god sent for RLS.

And Tiger Balm. I swear by Tiger Balm. Especially just following a bath/shower. Sooooo good

 

[phuckingnutz]

A heavy weighted blanket and hot baths are the only thing that ever helped me with RLS or a nice long run to tire you out and keep your legs moving . RLS always is what does me in, that and insomnia.

DAMN...listen up! KRATOM wll work 100%.

 

[Jabberwocky]

For someone coming off fent, kratom is better than nothing, but it won’t be a magic bullet either.

 

[Hatter]

What is your ROA of choice?

I dissolve the powder into a known volume of water, and then I use the solution in a nasal spray nasally or let it sit in my mouth until absorbed.

The latter was my route of administration for the first many years, but because there were residues of acid in the fentanyl, it destroyed the enamel on my teeth, so I have cavities in all my teeth. I don't know how long they'll last.

Just trying to emphasize that there is no rush. You have the rest of your life to figure this out.

Yes, but there is a rush of a sort. My mom may not have too many years left, and I want to be the person I used to be around her. I want to help her, and be happy around her, and be able to think.

My mind doesn't work! I can't think. It may sound like I am thinking, I don't know, but I am really just repeating things I have putting words on for years. Inside, everything is a blur. I have no perspective, no real grasp of things, and no ability to keep more than a shallow understanding of things in my mind at any one moment.


I don't know if you read some of my earlier postings in the other thread, but I talked a little about how I have always lived mostly inside my mind. Had most of my fun thinking and exploring the world THROUGH my mind.

I haven't been able to do that for all the years I have been on fentanyl.

That's not a life.

Everything you describe sounds very true. And I want to DO all those things you describe, like working on my life and my psychology, and changing my way of thinking and going about life.

But if methadone is anything like fentanyl, then I won't be able to do all the things you describe.

As long as my mind isn't working, I can't!

What is the environmental you?re doing this is? Do you have family supporting you? Peers? Or do you feel you have to keep it all a secret, as so many of us do (for good reason)?

No, my family knows everything. I have always shared everything I thought about with my mother.

I live with my mother in a small house, and I have no friends. At least no one I see regularly. And I have never had any close friends.

I have always tended to seal myself away from the world. Maybe because I stuttered as a child and adolescent.

And for the last 20 years, I have sealed my life away from others, because I don't have anything to offer, as long as I am not myself.

I need to work on so many things, which were destroyed during and after my bad trip. And I want to. There's nothing I want more. And I can't do it as long as my mind is blurred under fentanyl.

 

[oxyloveUK]

Seriously get on Kratom depending where you are, it is like herbal subutex, takes away withdrawals and stops cravings quickly and healthily. Most US states it is legal and sold in head shops/health stores in big cities and in European countries it is easy to find/order.

Also CBD from health stores should help the pain, anxiety and insomnia

 

[phuckingnutz]

I know that I sell a shit load ao kratom to the opioid addicted people around here wher I live and they usually only come around between scores, but they, and I, swear by it.
Especially for RLS...it kills RLS DEAD 100%.
And it is totally legal.
I am not suggesting that you switch to Kratom and give up your habit...God forbid, but if you want something to take that frosty fucking sweat off your back, stop up your bowels, keep that all encompassing depression from killing your quality of life and stop the RLS from keeping you squirming in the sheets for days on end, Kratom will do all that.
Don't think that just because it's legal it ain't worth a shit but you'd be wrong.
Actually, Big Pharma is working like crazy to get it off the White Market as it cuts, deeply, into their opioid sales.
Their latest attempt was to use the FDA and a Salmonella scare to bypass the channels and pull it off the market that way and it seems to be working.
I just grabbed another and possibly my last batch the other day.
When it's no longer available you might wish you'd grabbed some...just saying.
I'll jump down off my soap box and shut up about it, but I know what I'm talking about.

Oh, and stay away from the head shop stuff as it's not nearly as potent as some of the online stores. Just do some research.

 

[Gorillaboy21]

What?s the best strain of kratom for withdrawals ?

 

[steewith2ees]

But if methadone is anything like fentanyl, then I won't be able to do all the things you describe.

As long as my mind isn't working, I can't!

Despite being a 'gold standard' poppy drug (the 'gold standard' being of course morphine) most people find that methadone, while providing an extremely potent and powerful drug experience to the opiate naive (and those with relatively low tolerances) has little to no pronounced psychoactive effect once a patient is treated with it. Like all poppies, ones tolerance rises rapidly once daily dosing begins and within 3 or 4 days of taking the drug you should find that it will on the whole, keep withdrawal symptoms at bay despite it not providing the noticeable intoxication one experiences when taking an active dose of a short acting poppy of similar potency (such as heroin or fentanyl). While methadone substitution keeps users beholden to the requirement of daily use, in many instances people find that they can regain their life and functionality due to the slow onset and offset of the drug, where as daily use of fentanyl or heroin is clearly incapacitating.

 

[Rafayte]

You can take tizanidine as substitute for clonidine, it is too an alfa2-adrenergic agonist. You can take hydroxyzine for anxiety and doxylamine for sleep. Too you can take cyclobenzaprine for muscle troubles and cannabis for stomach damage

 

[Hatter]

You can take tizanidine as substitute for clonidine, it is too an alfa2-adrenergic agonist. You can take hydroxyzine for anxiety and doxylamine for sleep. Too you can take cyclobenzaprine for muscle troubles and cannabis for stomach damage

The reason I was asking about oxymetazoline is because it is OTC. Tizanidine is also prescription only, isn't it?

 

[phuckingnutz]

10mg of fent per day isn?t really that low. That is like 100mg morphine.

That must be a typo^, because 10 milligrams of Fent is equa to about 5 grams of morphine.
I am sure you meant MCG...right?

 

[SS373dOH]

Lope is prolly the best OTC product for wd.

Everything else combats the symptoms and ineffectively I might add, loperamide actually takes the wd away.

 

[Jabberwocky]

That must be a typo^, because 10 milligrams of Fent is equa to about 5 grams of morphine.
I am sure you meant MCG...right?

Lol yeah I don’t know where that number came from maybe I meant 1000mg?...

I was under the impression 1mg fent was like 100mg morphine (IV), but I could be wrong. The point worth taking away is that a mg of fent is A LOT of opioids.

Glad you pointed that out!

 

[Chris42393]

Lol yeah I don’t know where that number came from maybe I meant 1000mg?...

I was under the impression 1mg fent was like 100mg morphine (IV), but I could be wrong. The point worth taking away is that a mg of fent is A LOT of opioids.

Glad you pointed that out!

You are 100% correct. 100mcg fent = 10mg morphine (we use both in the field). 100mcg x 10 = 1mg. 10mg x 10 =100mg

1mg fent = 100mg of morphine. Have had plenty of MDs/Anesthesiologists confirm this.