Science Behind My Study Drug?

[MountainTop]

SO... it's time for finals!..


The past week I have used adderall/dexedrine/vyvanse for Finals. I have a headache, lack of sleep and my wallet is lighter. So far I feel like my marks are not so brilliant either.
What the heck right?

I can honestly say that I would have done 10X better not taking the adderall/dex/vyv, but by taking an extra dose of Wellbutrin (half 150mg SR), and drinking a big cup of coffee right after.

The buzz from an extra dose or a cup of coffee right after dosing is unparalleled, in slight perspective.. I would compare it to a burst of warmth, like mdma... with a hyper focus, like taking 40mg vyvanse or 20mg adderall - and without the dodgy side effects.
I started Wellbutrin (150mg SR x 2 daily) a year ago - and find it very effective for memorizing, long tasks, organized, social and seeing good results academically & in personal lifestyle.

From my knowledge Wellbutrin stimulates the executive function of the brain + enhancing control over emotions, instead of dampening them like Adderall.

This in-which leads one to produce answers that combines Analytical AND Emotional/creativity in responses... when most people can only think of one or the other - especially on adderall (analytical).
My teacher actually noted this as a unique talent that has shown in my papers - But I give all the credit to Wellbutrin.

...It would be cool to know more of the actual science behind this.



MT




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[CFC]

Bupropion just makes me unhinged, and personally I don't like hyperfocus when scribbling out a paper

However, you probably just needed that little extra adrenergic boost to give the focus you needed. Caffeine would probably have worked by itself if you weren't used to drinking it (which I assume you are).

Since you say you want to understand the science, I'll move this over to N&PD...

OD ---> N&PD

 

[MountainTop]

Cool. Thanks CFC!

 

[d1nach]

First off, I have no education beyond highschool. So, take what i say with a grain of salt.

Anyway, bupropion may be a strong inhibitor of an enzyme p450 cyp2d6. If amphetamine is primarily metabolized by cyp2d6 then taking bupropion may drastically alter the AUC and clearance of amphetamine.

It might be that taking amphetamine would have elevated levels leading to headaches and longer effects interfering with sleep.

Alot of what you say is subjective so its really hard to comment on.

For example i personally would compare 20 mg of adderall to more like 8 6 oz cups of black coffee.

Or I drink like 16 cups of coffee a day but you get a buzz from a extra cup of coffee.

Or when I take adderall i feel like it enhances my emotions

Neither of us are lying its just our own personal experiance.

 

[Volsam]

You guys might find that interesting:

Operant behavior

Phenylpiracetam is known to increase operant behavior. In tests against a control, Sprague-Dawley rats given free access to less-preferred rat chow and trained to operate a lever repeatedly to obtain preferred rat chow performed additional work when given methylphenidate, d-amphetamine, and phenylpiracetam.

Rats given 1 mg/kg amphetamine performed an average of 150% as much work and consumed 50% as much non-preferred rat chow than control rats; rats given 10 mg/kg Methylphenidate performed 170% as much work and consumed similarly; and rats given 100 mg/kg Phenylpiracetam performed an average of 375% as much work, and consumed little non-preferred rat chow.

Present data show that (R)-phenylpiracetam increases motivation, i.e., the work load, which animals are willing to perform to obtain more rewarding food. At the same time consumption of freely available normal food does not increase. Generally this indicates that (R)-phenylpiracetam increase motivation [...] The effect of (R)-phenylpiracetam is much stronger than that of methylphenidate and amphetamine.^[13]

So in short, the more potent the stimulant, the less actual work you will do and most likely will just get high off it, instead of increasing productivity.
That said, nootropics and low dose Isopropylphenidate do it for me when I need strong mental energy boost. Microdosing certain psychedelics may also be an alternative to such ventures but you must know what are you doing. I actually was comparing Wellbutrin to low dose (4-12mg depending on tolerance and other stuff taken that day) Proscaline and the latter was superior in every way for me.

 

[Hodor]

Rats given 1 mg/kg amphetamine performed an average of 150% as much work and consumed 50% as much non-preferred rat chow than control rats; rats given 10 mg/kg Methylphenidate performed 170% as much work and consumed similarly; and rats given 100 mg/kg Phenylpiracetam performed an average of 375% as much work, and consumed little non-preferred rat chow.

So in short, the more potent the stimulant, the less actual work you will do and most likely will just get high off it, instead of increasing productivity.

While agree with your statement to some extent, I don't think it is supported by the article you cited.
Unless amphetamine affects rats *a lot* more strongly than methylphenidate, a dose of 1mg/kg of amphetamine is far weaker than 10mg/kg of methylphenidate.

But yes, amphetamine increases both dopamine and noradrenaline, whereas Wellbutrin pretty much only increases noradrenaline. For some people, the dopamine boost can help make chores more interesting; in others, it makes distracting stimuli even more interesting, leading to a net decrease in actual work getting done. This is especially true if you overshoot the dose and become disinhibited by the euphoric stimulation. These people might benefit more from a noradrenergic ADHD med like Strattera, or in your case the noadrenergic antidepressant Wellbutrin.

 

[Volsam]

For some people, the dopamine boost can help make chores more interesting; in others, it makes distracting stimuli even more interesting, leading to a net decrease in actual work getting done. This is especially true if you overshoot the dose and become disinhibited by the euphoric stimulation. These people might benefit more from a noradrenergic ADHD med like Strattera, or in your case the noadrenergic antidepressant Wellbutrin.

^^^ Well-said!

 

[d1nach]

Can someone explain to me how phenylpiracetam works? Is the nicotinic or ndri effects primarily responsible or something different. Also, on wiki i saw something about decreasing D1 receptors? Couldnt that lower your drive and mood?

 

[Volsam]

Can someone explain to me how phenylpiracetam works? Is the nicotinic or ndri effects primarily responsible or something different. Also, on wiki i saw something about decreasing D1 receptors? Couldnt that lower your drive and mood?

It is officially unknown how Phenylpiracetam exerts its action and how it makes you stimulated. But the theory behind it's action is primarily nicotinic acetylcholine receptor agonism and increasing concentration of glutamate NMDA receptors, thus causing an indirect action on dopamine and norepinephrine. There is no direct action of Phenylpiracetam on any dopamine, norepinephrine or GABA receptors.

In my personal observation it is very effective if used sporadically when needed. Its especially effective in combination with other nootropics and a little bit of coffee. Stimulation amount may be compared with D-Amp if you dose everything correctly.

IMO, it's worth checking out Phenylpiracetam for occasional brain boost with a lot less side effects than most conventional stims.

 

[MountainTop]

Thanks for the reply guys. I think the rat story is really relatable. Guess we're pretty similar - or at least I am!

 

[Dresden]

JITTERY JOE

Wonders Never Cease.

 

[clubcard]

Right back to the 1930s people were atudying the effects of methamphetamine. The Nazis made tablets with 3mg of (S)methamphetamine and 47mg of cocaine. They discovered that overall (72 hours), it didn't improve performance. It may be that some caffeine homologues are better but if the agents I've tried, only (S,S) fencamfamine & (S,S) phenmetrazine were of any benefit. Both are smoother and interestingly, the N-methyl analogue of fencamfamine is smoother because it's affinity to the opioid receptors takes the edge off (naloxone reverses some effects of fencamfamine). If people have access to Chemoffice, try overlaying fencamfamine with tilidine. The methylene bridge makes it rigid so what you want to do is place a lone-pair over the =O of the ester. (2R,3S)-3-(methylamino)-2-(2-methylphenyl)bicyclo[2.2.1]hept-2-yl propanoate is the most potent of the series. The substitution of an o-toluene in place of benzene is to lend rigidity. I noted that in the 1950s they discovered that the extra methyl made the homologue of isopethidine some x4 more potent than pethidine. A propenyl ether,ethyl ketone or ethanesulfonate might work (especially the latter). Some work on the amino-acid residue that makes up the opioid receptors and natural ligands with m,m-xylyl moiety bound MUCH more strongly. They also took the common N-(n-propyl)aryl moiety and replaced it with a (1S,3S) 3-aryl cyclopentane and it made VAST difference. I mean Ki down from 11 to 0.19.

In essence, the methyl sticking out from the aryl stops rotational isomerism i.e. the angle between bond and aryl is fixed.

I've only just remembered that but it's like the 3-alkyl groups we see in phenylpiperidine & phenylpropanamide opioids. If you are going to add a 3-methyl on the piperidine, add a 3,3-dimethyl since it halves the number of isomers and doubles the potency. 3-methyl-3-hydroxy & 3-halo groups have also been seen. The latter by Cayman Chemicals since the MoDA excludes fentanyl analogues with a halogen on the piperidine ring. Fentanyl is terrible, fentanyl is poison. Download 'Opiates' by R. Lenz et all from Scribd and find a training set and let CHARMM calculate the 3D QSAR. You can learn SO much SO quickly. Picenadol enlightened me CC ring-substitution in ketobemidone. In that case, you cannot go with a 3,3-dimethyl. You have to resolve the trans pair (you can racemize the cis) and then resolve the (S). An O or S 2 methylenes from the N produces stronger agonism but being a phenol baring opioid, it can also be an antagonist. I went with 2-(benzyl)furanyl moiety from a UK patent. I don't think it will ever become a street drug but it is important to education.

My goal is to make sure everyone knows everything. I don't think any of these things will fuel violent criminals and I cannot let heroin fund terrorism or cocaine cause a massive death toll across Mexico and south. Sometimes we have to choose the lesser of 2 evils and safe, safe, safe, legal, safe, legality, synthetic complexity, safety and of course safe are the most important things. When we think of the war on drugs we think of people being arrested. In Afghanistan H is funding a bombing campaign that killed over 10000 last year. The death toll of cocaine is just as bad (and who wants levamisole? Turns out it does have a subjective effect but then it kills you. We can and should be working towards a safer future for everyone.

 

[MountainTop]

@clubcard You good bro? lmao

 

[clubcard]

@clubcard You good bro? lmao

Me best bro :-D

 

[Dresden]

I know methamphetamine won't improve overall performance. I mean, you don't get something for nothing. Yin, yang, all that. But, speaking from personal experience, high dose methamphetamine does markedly improve reaction time and cognition (not to mention affect--which is what I was really usually after)--for a solid 24 to 48 hours for me. Is that wrong?

 

[Coolwhip]

It may improve cognition and reaction time compared to staying awake for 48 hours while sobre, but I would be doubtful that it improves cognition after not sleeping for 2 days vs. cognition while sobre 48 hours later with proper sleep, diet, and hydration.

 

[Seppi]

From my knowledge Wellbutrin stimulates the executive function of the brain + enhancing control over emotions, instead of dampening them like Adderall.

This in-which leads one to produce answers that combines Analytical AND Emotional/creativity in responses... when most people can only think of one or the other - especially on adderall (analytical).
My teacher actually noted this as a unique talent that has shown in my papers - But I give all the credit to Wellbutrin.

...It would be cool to know more of the actual science behind this.

I don't know where you read that Adderall "dampens" executive functions; that's not true at all. As a dual NDRA and NDRI, therapeutic doses of amphetamine augment executive functions to a greater extent than therapeutic doses of Welbutrin/Bupropion. This is due to the fact that catecholaminergic drugs promote cognitive control/"executive function" via the activation of dopamine receptor D1 and adrenoceptor α2 in the prefrontal cortex.

 

[Seppi]

It's probably also worth mentioning that bupropion lacks the task salience-enhancing effects that amphetamine confers (i.e., it increases motivational salience for goal-oriented tasks). That effect of amphetamine is entirely mediated via the activation of D1-type receptors in the medium spiny neurons within the nucleus accumbens shell.

 

[MountainTop]

I don't know where you read that Adderall "dampens" executive functions; that's not true at all. As a dual NDRA and NDRI, therapeutic doses of amphetamine augment executive functions to a greater extent than therapeutic doses of Welbutrin/Bupropion. This is due to the fact that catecholaminergic drugs promote cognitive control/"executive function" via the activation of dopamine receptor D1 and adrenoceptor α2 in the prefrontal cortex.

Unfortunately my writing was a bit off. I meant Adderall dampens emotional response; not executive function, which for sure is augmented to a greater extent.
And in regards to buproprion lacking the "task salience-enhancing effects" - I completely agree. It is hard to start a task (or a goal), but definitely keeps me interested once I have.