The rise in abuse of power, overstepping of bounds, and unbalanced perspectives on BL

[Blue_Phlame]

This is an open letter to all readers of Bluelight - lurkers, new-members, regulars, staff and everyone else who reads these forums.

There is an inadequate level of checks-and-balances on Bluelight that regulate the actions of some staff members. Does anyone else think that occurrences of unfair decisions made at the expense of members who do not share the same ideological perspective have become increasingly more commonplace? The board's general disposition has shifted heavily to one side, and as a consequence, started ostracizing members who do not share the same ideals.

Its clear to me that this forum no longer holds values that encourage impartial and non-partisan perspectives in its staff.

 

[swilow]

The below is really just my opinion about this as a Bluelighter and staff member.

There is an inadequate level of checks-and-balances on Bluelight that regulate the actions of some staff members.

That really isn't true. As you should be aware as a staff member here, there is pretty much always a lot of discussion amongst us about various contentions issues, be they contemporary political issues or more Bluelight-specific. Really, before any big or important decision is made, there is an attempt at consensus; this happens both amongst staff in general, and amongst the actual mods and senior mods of each forum. In that sense, your commentary is simply not factual.

I've been a moderator here for around 10 years or so, and if anything there is more discussion now (sometimes endless discussion :D) than I can recall in the past.

Does anyone else think that occurrences of unfair decisions made at the expense of members who do not share the same ideological perspective have become increasingly more commonplace? The board's general disposition has shifted heavily to one side, and as a consequence, started ostracizing members who do not share the same ideals.

You ask a loaded question, it appears that you are fishing for negative commentary here. Given that you haven't made any effort to substantiate what you are saying, I don't feeling you are raising this issue with productive intentions.

The fact is that ideology in general does not ever cause enactment of disciplinary proceedings; however, the expressing of certain ideologies is forbidden by the Bluelight User Agreement and more specifically, forum rules. By this, I mean comments and content that are racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. It is not the views themselves, it is expressing them in content on this website. This is a harm reduction website that is trying to provide harm reduction information to all earthly drug users- this means that ideally, Bluelight could be accessed by anyone in the world. There is value in doing what we can to attract and keep as many members as possible to keep more drug users safe-r, and it is generally understood that allowing certain views to be expressed here is going to turn people away. To my mind, that runs entirely counter to the aim of Bluelight. To increase safe practises amongst drug users of all nationalities, we have to forbid certain sorts of posts, but literally 99.99999999% of all other possible comments that could forseeably are allowed. No-one ever seems to mention that.

No-one is banned for being racist (or whatever), people are banned for expressing their racism. There are more than enough places on the internet where you can discuss whatever you want, Bluelight isn't one of them. And the reasoning is solid.

Its clear to me that this forum no longer holds values that encourage impartial and non-partisan perspectives in its staff.

There are a wide variety of political views held by staff members, from hard left to libertarian to right-wing/conservative. Hell, a previous admin was decidedly far-right. On Bluelight, he still upheld views that were probably against his own personal IRL opinions because that is what being impartial is.

I'm sure that we could all do better, of course. Its hard to not let your own feelings influence things, but its always worth trying to achieve neutrality of sorts. Hopefully, any contributors to this thread try to understand that and offer constructive feedback.

Blue_Phlame, I would appreciate your post as constructive if you had put more effort into it but it seems more like a somewhat confused general spray at people you disagree with personally. Irony abounds.

 

[zephyr]

This is an open letter to all readers of Bluelight - lurkers, new-members, regulars, staff and everyone else who reads these forums.

There is an inadequate level of checks-and-balances on Bluelight that regulate the actions of some staff members. Does anyone else think that occurrences of unfair decisions made at the expense of members who do not share the same ideological perspective have become increasingly more commonplace? The board's general disposition has shifted heavily to one side, and as a consequence, started ostracizing members who do not share the same ideals.

Its clear to me that this forum no longer holds values that encourage impartial and non-partisan perspectives in its staff.

Yeah, there has been a somewhat gradual shift in this place over the last few years.

There's always been a cyclical effect in how this olace is run and participated in.

However lately the mods and staff are disconnected from what remains of the community more than ever. Your decisions are clearly for your own self interest and no one elses.

Good luck with this.

Its a big pile of absolute bullshit that bl staff have little regard for their roots.

You have no reason to exist without traffic.

Think about it .

 

[spacejunk]

Let us speak plainly and call this thread exactly what it is; a personal beef made public.

Blue phlame, you had the opportunity to apply for a position on senior staff - and if you had, you would have probably been accepted.
But since then you've been going out of your way to undermine staff and complain about people on staff you don't like.

That's too bad.

You had your opportunity to step up - but you've chosen to snipe in the sidelines.

So i guess my question is - why haven't you stepped down?

This thread isn't about bluelight - it's about the OP's immature attitude and general belligerence.

 

[zephyr]

It should not matter if you are staff or not

It should not matter if you are senior staff or not.

There was a time when all of us had Comraderie and all seemed to communicate with an open forum and now there is not.

The concern is shared.

It was fun when any and all used the public forums but now theres no real interaction. Well there is a bit but not like there once was.

It would be interesting to compare the traffic in staff to public and see where staff make their presence known more.

Individual decisions on individual members is distinctly obvious, the effect on the rest of us probably isnt.

The report posts area is meant for as clear discussion and fair decisions as possible considering how staff do not want transparency.

If a mod decision is to not be questioned then that is not the original intent of that area.

Again I suggest staff read the original thread TLB posted about the infraction system and see how its changed for the worse.

Personal beef or no, I dont care. Its about time someone on staff had the balls to question the system in public .

 

[spacejunk]

Staff are actually doing great, as is the forum more generally.

I get a lot out of it, as do many other people.

It's a shame some people are too bitter to see the bigger picture, but it's not something i lose sleep over.
They're massively outnumbered by people who contribute positively to this community, which is worth considering for what it is.

 

[zephyr]

I had a mate on staff many years ago who let me have a peek in staff and it was basically boring and just for buisness without any of the subs except wobl.

The social aspect and the majority of postings were done out in public.


Its okay to discuss problems and issues bl related and okay to bring up topics that may cause angst, thats what communication is and shouldn't there be some actual discussion about bl with bl ?

Because bl is not just about staff. If it is, its an expensive way to go about having a private forum.

 

[Jabberwocky]

This is an open letter to all readers of Bluelight - lurkers, new-members, regulars, staff and everyone else who reads these forums.

There is an inadequate level of checks-and-balances on Bluelight that regulate the actions of some staff members. Does anyone else think that occurrences of unfair decisions made at the expense of members who do not share the same ideological perspective have become increasingly more commonplace? The board's general disposition has shifted heavily to one side, and as a consequence, started ostracizing members who do not share the same ideals.

Its clear to me that this forum no longer holds values that encourage impartial and non-partisan perspectives in its staff.

You have said your intentions are good. I’m open to believing that. But I have to ask...

What are your intentions with BL? To create endless drama we have to waste all our time and effort cleaning up? Or something else? Please do be concrete, because valuing fairness anyone can do, including folks like Hitler and Osama Bin Laden.

The below is really just my opinion about this as a Bluelighter and staff member.



That really isn't true. As you should be aware as a staff member here, there is pretty much always a lot of discussion amongst us about various contentions issues, be they contemporary political issues or more Bluelight-specific. Really, before any big or important decision is made, there is an attempt at consensus; this happens both amongst staff in general, and amongst the actual mods and senior mods of each forum. In that sense, your commentary is simply not factual.

I've been a moderator here for around 10 years or so, and if anything there is more discussion now (sometimes endless discussion :D) than I can recall in the past.



You ask a loaded question, it appears that you are fishing for negative commentary here. Given that you haven't made any effort to substantiate what you are saying, I don't feeling you are raising this issue with productive intentions.

The fact is that ideology in general does not ever cause enactment of disciplinary proceedings; however, the expressing of certain ideologies is forbidden by the Bluelight User Agreement and more specifically, forum rules. By this, I mean comments and content that are racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. It is not the views themselves, it is expressing them in content on this website. This is a harm reduction website that is trying to provide harm reduction information to all earthly drug users- this means that ideally, Bluelight could be accessed by anyone in the world. There is value in doing what we can to attract and keep as many members as possible to keep more drug users safe-r, and it is generally understood that allowing certain views to be expressed here is going to turn people away. To my mind, that runs entirely counter to the aim of Bluelight. To increase safe practises amongst drug users of all nationalities, we have to forbid certain sorts of posts, but literally 99.99999999% of all other possible comments that could forseeably are allowed. No-one ever seems to mention that.

No-one is banned for being racist (or whatever), people are banned for expressing their racism. There are more than enough places on the internet where you can discuss whatever you want, Bluelight isn't one of them. And the reasoning is solid.



There are a wide variety of political views held by staff members, from hard left to libertarian to right-wing/conservative. Hell, a previous admin was decidedly far-right. On Bluelight, he still upheld views that were probably against his own personal IRL opinions because that is what being impartial is.

I'm sure that we could all do better, of course. Its hard to not let your own feelings influence things, but its always worth trying to achieve neutrality of sorts. Hopefully, any contributors to this thread try to understand that and offer constructive feedback.

Blue_Phlame, I would appreciate your post as constructive if you had put more effort into it but it seems more like a somewhat confused general spray at people you disagree with personally. Irony abounds.

Very well said.

 

[mal3volent]

Let us speak plainly and call this thread exactly what it is; a personal beef made public.

Yeah, really.

B_P, you are clearly trying to make a pretty big statement. Abuse of power is a pretty provocative accusation... yet the content of your actual post is rather vague and impotent. "Non-partisan" perspectives? That doesn't even make sense. A perspective is a point of view. The whole idea of having a point of view is to establish your own personal ideals.

The question of impartiality is about fairness. It seems pretty fair to me for a community to have an established set of guidelines that everyone is expected to follow, regardless of whether they're a Greenlighter or an admin. The "A" in BLUA does stand for agreement, after all. To post here, you have to be a part of that agreement. If you don't like the idea of harm reduction and creating an environment where everyone feels comfortable and welcome, you don't have to agree.

Swilow really nailed it, I think. Racists and homophobes really can post here. They don't even have to hide the fact that they are bigoted. What they can't do is post material that is flagrantly offensive and meant to antagonize. It's really that simple.

So...honestly...what are you actually trying to say? You were feeling bold when you made the thread, so speak up and let everyone know exactly what it is that you're on about.

 

[JessFR]

Given how many political arguments I've had with mods on CE&P, personally I have a hard time believing there's any rampant censorship given that I've never felt censored.

I've occasionally seen a few questionable remarks by mods, but a handful of potentially poorly thought out comments over 5+ years really isn't very much. And I've seen more than a few posts that later got disappeared, and they've never been anything where i felt they were unapproved just because of the point of view.

So, for me personally, I'm much more inclined to think that all this talk of censorship is just people taking it too far and saying hateful shit that was also political, then crying censorship when it's removed for being hateful or insulting claiming it was removed for its political position.

Cause I've said plenty of controversial things, and had plenty of political arguments with mods. But of the 3 or so times I've had posts removed, all were because I'd lost it and insulted someone who'd pissed me off. And I knew it was coming the moment I posted it.

I just don't buy it.

 

[Felonious Monk]

Jesus fuck, I left BL for a year thinking some of this personal BS would have died down by the time I got back.. but it seems like the sandy vagina crowd is holding the sand with the hope of growing pearls.

You ask a loaded question, it appears that you are fishing for negative commentary here. Given that you haven't made any effort to substantiate what you are saying, I don't feeling you are raising this issue with productive intentions.

This. If you have a problem specify specific things which happened and what you would like to see happen differently.

Otherwise, it absolutely seems like some malicious shit-stirring with no intention of adding to beneficial discussion. So be a positive change or resign your mod stick, cause it seems like with the exception of zephyr the general consensus is there's no basis to this besides some personal drama.

PS. To answer the question posed in the OP. No. The only thing it seems to me is that there's always one or two staff members who think BL is some kind of weird conspiracy to silence their opinions.... despite being run by volunteers and these whiners generally being some of the more prolific posters (or mods)

 

[Jabberwocky]

Given how many political arguments I've had with mods on CE&P, personally I have a hard time believing there's any rampant censorship given that I've never felt censored.

I've occasionally seen a few questionable remarks by mods, but a handful of potentially poorly thought out comments over 5+ years really isn't very much. And I've seen more than a few posts that later got disappeared, and they've never been anything where i felt they were unapproved just because of the point of view.

So, for me personally, I'm much more inclined to think that all this talk of censorship is just people taking it too far and saying hateful shit that was also political, then crying censorship when it's removed for being hateful or insulting claiming it was removed for its political position.

Cause I've said plenty of controversial things, and had plenty of political arguments with mods. But of the 3 or so times I've had posts removed, all were because I'd lost it and insulted someone who'd pissed me off. And I knew it was coming the moment I posted it.

I just don't buy it.

Precisely this

 

[zephyr]

Its not suprising that any criticical observation given to anyone in a position of power is actually taken on board and noted as possibly worth noting.

I dont know if jess or myself ir anyone else are a subject of discussion behind closed doors like other people who can fart in the wrong direction and get banned.

Yes some decisions are very questionable indeed, even worse is the refusal to admit any mistake or misjudgement.

Swillow has done this a few times, hez not the only one. I wouldnt trust his judgement if you paid me.

No offense bro.

 

[spacejunk]

When people moan constantly, i'm not sure why they expect people will take all of their "suggestions" seriously.

Zeph, you've been incredibly critical of everyone since you stepped down, and a lot of your criticisms have been frankly ridiculous.
Message boards are not as popular as they were 10+ years ago, which lots of these "suggestions", "criticisms" and rants fail to acknowledge, when you blame staff for the lack of traffic in social forums.
You keep insinuating that we deliberately alienate people, which is just nonsense.

But i've explained this to you several times, and you still bring it up all the time.
So who isn't listening here?
Communication is a two-way street, and i've told you the same thing so many times, but still you act like it's mods' fault that bluelight isn't the same as it was 12 years ago.

You're not being reasonable by continually blaming, and continually insulting.
Like blue phlame, you had a perfect opportunity to help us make whatever changes you thought appropriate, but instead you've just piled criticism and negativity on those of us that do volunteer to keep bluelight going.

As for the comment about swilow - that's particularly diasappointing.
He's a fantastic mod who does a great job.
I have a lot of faith in him, as (as far as i know) does everyone else who give up their time to help run this place.

CE&P is a really tough gig and he doesn't deserve this kind of rude, childish bullshit.

Bluelight doesn't, in my opinion, suffer from "abuse of power" (lol "power" - jesus 8)) - which is one of the reasons this is a disingenuous attempt at stirring complaints.
The bluelighters who have never been a mod only have to take blue_phlame's word that there is anything wrong with the way staff makes decisions.
Which is why it was posted in a public subforum - and zephyr can always be counted on to stick the boot in to bluelight's staff.
It's a shame you guys feel this way, but i think it's pretty obvious to me that we cannot please everyone - and we get criticised whatever we do.

 

[Droppersneck]

Beeps, I love you man, you have always been a fair and reasonable poster. The social justice movement and its need to suppress all dissent or anything considered ?offensive?, is not something a person that holds extremely liberal views is going to waiver on. These people do not understand the ironic, humor, or sarcasm.. Well maybe by definition, but not in the way you or me get them. Have you ever thought it?s time to move on? It?s 2018 and many of us have. PM me BP Or i may send you one a bit later. BL was great and I have a lot of friends from here, but all things must come to an end. Also I beleive Alasdair wants to focus on HR, so understandable he doesn?t want a 4chan Esk board full of vulgarities scaring off advertisers/ survey people. It took me forever to understand this, but once I did things were good. Just PM me

 

[alasdairm]

^ if we, the evil monsters that we are, wanted to suppress "all dissent" how is this thread even visible and how are you able to respond?

there's absolutely no issue with b_p asking these questions and i'm interested to read a full spectrum of responses.

but when persistent troublemakers continually and deliberately post content they know will inflame - and which is against the guidelines and/or blua - then, when the content is removed and they're infracted, turn around and play the martyr and cry oppression and censorship, well, you just lose me. heard it before. not interested.

the sad, and not a little ironic, thing is that these time-wasters draw attention from genuine cases which we're more than happy to discuss.

alasdair

 

[Droppersneck]

^no one is calling you Evil monsters. You people are a reality of today and there is nothing wrong with these people or their forums. Did you miss the part where I said that I understand why you don’t want non PC ideas/thoughts posted here? If anything I’m on your side here. All I’m saying is for folks to vote with their feet. The lounge got ravaged by the extremely liberal changes to the BLUA and its enforcement so that this place could be more suitible for the mainstream and potential advertisers(that makes perfect sense)I think BP is just not very good with change and moving on. As most of you know it took me a while to move on, but it’s the only way, and there are greener pastures for those that just want to shit post/joke around/ talk about drugs in a more candid way.

 

[mal3volent]

Yeah, are people mad because BL isn't the Wild West where anyone can say anything without repercussions? What specific actions has any mod taken that you feel is unjust? Do you really think posting racist shit is okay?

its crazy how much leniency the Lounge has been given over the years. But we remove some incontrovertibly racist bullshit and now, all of a sudden, it's no fun anymore?

If you really care about Bluelight, you would participate in the conversation honestly. Give us ideas of how to make it better that doesn't involve allowing racist or bigoted material to go unaddressed.

 

[alasdairm]

^ amen.

qalasdair

 

[tathra]

All I’m saying is for folks to vote with their feet. The lounge got ravaged by the extremely liberal changes to the BLUA and its enforcement so that this place could be more suitible for the mainstream and potential advertisers(that makes perfect sense).

harm reduction becoming mainstream is one of the greatest things i hope to see in my life. what's being asked of users is no different than having separate forums for different subjects. certain content is appropriate in certain places and inappropriate in others, no different from how politics isn't appropriate to discuss in the focus forums and drugs aren't appropriate in the community forums. people who we know understand this (because we know they understand the concepts of subforums and thus keeping appropriate topics in appropriate places, and the concept of inappropriateness) but actively choose to ignore it are willingly creating problems for the community.

communities aren't static, and change over time; nothing stays the same way forever. inevitably some people will disagree with the changes that happen over time or not understand the reason behind them, but they dont own the community and aren't its dictator, selfishly pretending that they are doesn't help anyone.