If cocaine is a much stronger stimulant than Bupropion, why does snorting...

[cacachanel]

Why does snorting Bupropion in doses smaller than cocaine is much more likely to cause seizures, in comparison to cocaine?
Bupropion's affinity for DAT and NET is much smaller than cocaine, so why is that snorting Bupropion or even taking high doses orally can cause seizures much more likely than snorting cocaine? Is it because of the Nicotinic antagonism?

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Bupropion is not abusable, some may find methylphenidate ok. I myself had a fancy for ephedra and qat. But that shit has no euphoric tendencies.

I hope I have saved your nose Cacachanel with what I wrote.

 

[cacachanel]

I can't abuse the Wellbutrin that I have (which is prescribed 30/month) because then I won't have the antidepressant effects, which I very much need.
Well, a lot of people actually do abuse Wellbutrin and compare the high to a much worse cocaine, which kinda makes sense if you see the binding affinities.
Anyway, this doesn't answer my question, but thank you

 

[cacachanel]

Cocaine is very cheap in Brazil so I wouldn't need to get to the point of snorting Wellbutrin, also.
I actually always think it's really weird how Americans and Europeans think of cocaine as a rich man's drug and the prices are like literally more than 15x of ours. Me and my friends use cocaine when we don't want to spend a lot of money with booze, actually.

 

[Rafayte]

I have read in other forum than snort bupropion is so good as coke but it has side effects unpleasant. The user told he snort bupropion IR which causes him numbing like coke and a euphoric stimulating high similar to cocaine but after it caused unpleasant side effects. I would like to try snort bupropion

 

[Keif' Richards]

Dude, you're kind of all over the place in terms of your questions and statements. When you create a thread, you have to do your best to make it pretty. This is not for your own pride, though feel free to take it, but to actually help us better understand your question and how to answer it. Try to be concise, clear and make sure to do your best to use proper grammar. We have a rainbow coalition of BL'ers from all over the world, speaking different languages at home. Using proper grammar and correct spelling can make or break your thread.

With that being said, I'm going to refer you over to Neuroscience, as I believe they are a lot more knowledgeable than myself regarding this matter. They will most likely further ask you to amend your OP in an attempt to clearly define your needs and goals.

Good luck!

 

[Coolwhip]

You seem to be under the impression that as a rule stimulants cause seizures, and on top of that the stronger the stimulant effect the more likely to induce seizures. This simply isn't true, in either case. It's likely that bupropions seizure inducing quality is only tangentially related to its stimulant properties.

 

[Hodor]

Bupropion also shows some 5HT3 antagonism, but since I don't see people getting seizures from ondansetron, the nicotinic agonism seems like a more plausible explanation. In the end, the general consensus in academic papers seems to be "we just don't know".

Also, the pharmacology of bupropion is generally a tricky thing because the tert-butyl group is readily hydroxylated in the liver during first-pass metabolism. In other words: Taking Wellbutrin orally means that only very little bupropion actually arrives in your bloodstream, because most of it got turned into hydroxy-bupropion. The former is a reuptake inhibitor for dopamine and noradrenaline, whereas the latter is basically devoid of dopaminergic activity, explaining why wellbutrin is not considered recreational unless snorted (which bypasses the first-pass metabolism); indeed, while wellbutrin is often claimed to be an NDRI because of the activity of bupropion itself, it would be more accurate to consider it a pro-drug for its NRI metabolite.

It would be interesting to look at the literature and compare receptor affinities between bupropion and its metabolites. If snorted bupropion already produces seizures at very low doses (i.e. doses so low that the seizure risk cannot be attributed to a more rapid absorption of the drug into the central nervous system alone), one could compare receptor affinities between bupropion and hydroxy-bupropion to draw possible conclusions.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

I can't abuse the Wellbutrin that I have (which is prescribed 30/month) because then I won't have the antidepressant effects, which I very much need.
Well, a lot of people actually do abuse Wellbutrin and compare the high to a much worse cocaine, which kinda makes sense if you see the binding affinities.
Anyway, this doesn't answer my question, but thank you

If the three Wellbutrin/ Bupropion, Methylphendate and Cocaine are indeed alike. I am not a fan of any of the three but as far as rankng them the Coke wins. Which is not that expensive around here with good purity levels. It's not cheap but any one can do it not a VIP drug in any way.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Me and my friends use cocaine when we don't want to spend a lot of money with booze, actually.

A lot of people in Europe do the same but use cheap available MDMA, Amphetamine and a arsenal of reseach chemicals for that purpose. So is the US and this moment geographics seem besides regional differences irrelevant. Having a mail box is however important

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

I'd disagree in saying khat/qat has no euphoric tendencies, as long as its good and fresh, its not bad as a stimulant, albeit the norephedrine etc. can be a bit of a rough edge, cathinone itself, or methcathinone if you want to make with the chemistry on some pseudo, isn't bad as a stimulant.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

I'd disagree in saying khat/qat has no euphoric tendencies, as long as its good and fresh, its not bad as a stimulant, albeit the norephedrine etc. can be a bit of a rough edge, cathinone itself, or methcathinone if you want to make with the chemistry on some pseudo, isn't bad as a stimulant.

Khat is the finest stimulant in that respect it's euphoric effects have yet to be matched. So I totally agree with you on that.

What to me seems so strange how a twig with two very basic cathinones can be so rewarding. I found it kinda emphatogenic to with pleasant visual disturbances in the colors and contrast/ brightness.

I would have loved to be able to try pure meth-cathinone to feel the dis/ simmilaryties.

Btw where did the Khat came up in this thread anyway.
Why don't you start up a nice one around it Limpet_Chicken, I am very curious what info you have to share.
I must have chewed kilos off the stuff, it was my DOC when it was around.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

You mentioned it first, saying that ' I myself had a fancy for ephedra and qat. But that shit has no euphoric tendencies.'

How do the two reconcile? as for starting a thread...I really, really cannot be buggered, I've got a hangover..forgot to take my chlormethiazole tonight, half a bottle of rum...so without the alcohol dehydrogenase inhibition, I've got a fucker of a headache. And I'm only getting more pished. But even now I can tell those two statements don't line up.

I'd REALLY disagree about it being anywhere close to the most euphoric stimulant out there. khat is pleasant enough, when combined with an alpha2 adrenergic autoreceptor blocker like a heavy dose of clonidine/tizanidine (might well just be me, I just do not get on with adrenergic agents well. If you want to start a thread I'd be interested, especially cultivation, got some seeds, although right now, I'm just about ready to hit the deck in a boneless, multilingually cursing heap

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Shit I am the one that mentioned, and totally forgot aswell about it. Well then upon me to relieve Qat of any misinterpretations. I love Khat or Qat, Catha Edulis. Chewing out whatever in their that does a job greater then 'good' cocaine, amphetamine including the pure dextro isomer, methyphenidate and ephedra. And the rest of the obscure stimulants I tasted. Why was it so good. And why could I sleep on it no matter what ammount I chewed. What is that sort of clumsy, sedating feel that acompanies the use of this drug and made it more suitable for socializing. This fact must be estabilished that their seems no equivalant to the coke head or speed freak kinda thing with Khat.

I have sat with these Somalian guy's chewing it and it is absolutely a tranquil setting very little speediness if any. They where relaxed yet alert and it felt very unlike coke or amphetamine settings.



And regarding the Khat quote I wrote poorly leaving room for misinterpretion.
I myself had a fancy for Ephedra and Qat. But Bupropion has no euphoric tendecies.

For recreationial stims I would defenitely prefer Qat even with dextro-amphetamine at disposal. Just to see if it lives up to my own hype about it. Receiving some bk-mdea soon so I am cool. Sleep well. And I would most likely hate the side effects of Khat now to. 20 years ago I could sleep with hearth rates alarmingly high without problem.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

I've got a hangover..

Overread that part too the pharmacology of your problem I going to read some more about chlormethiazole. The hangover will pass and you probably know all the routes to escape the damage.

Be taking my Carduus Marianus/ Milk Thistle with spiced Rum after I ate my anty Door's chicken schnitzel.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Oh it went alright. I just had to knock myself out for a few hours because it was the last night of my pain meds and such before picking up a new script, so decided to grab some DXM cough mixture, cherry wine and a bottle of rum, by 8am, picked up a load of morphine, chlormethiazole, nitrazepam, oxy, adrenolytic meds and other things besides.

Just went with the above, and by the time I awoke, no more hangover. I don't really drink much at all, not often at least. But that grab-bag of meds was more than enough to blast any headache out of the skies.

 

[clubcard]

If you like alcohol - QH-II-66 is as euphoric and VERY safe. (modified) Suzuki reaction on diazepam and voila. Why anyone would touch ethanol is beyond me. Why QH-II-66 isn't rife as a research ligand is also beyond me. Dependent users found it substituted perfectly. Lacking the ataxia, sedation & emotional lability (a1 mediated) of ethanol, it's considered better...... but I guess a ?6.7 billion industry can put pressure on the forces of law and order to make it a priority to stamp out.

Illegal in the UK now, sadly, but legal everywhere else (AFAIK). It may interest people to know that obtaining a license to use diazepam as a reagent, not a drug, isn't hard to obtain. For those versed in the quaternization & dequaternization of tertiary amines, a tremendous number of holes exist within UK legal controls. I stuck 100% within the law and we did find ligands of medicinal utility... which is nice. Wilkinson's catalyst does wonders.

I also realize that whoever was behind thevespiary.org has a copy of the Eunoia Disc.... so it IS spreading.


EDIT

Is it just me or does bupropion look too much like fenfluramine for comfort? It is a 5HT2b ligand (as are many things) but along with aminorex, a fair few monoamine modulating ligands (VMAT-2 ligands as well) have proven to be cardiotoxic. I'm very cautious about novel agents. I do remember that the FDA approved a generic SR formulation that was later shown dose-dumping liability thus an increased tonic-clonic seizure rate. Now, I'm not keen on any medication that is in use in spite of it having this rather serious problem. The N-butyl amphetamine analogues are pure NRIs but that =O changes activity a great deal. Having said that, 1,2-diphenyl-1-pyrrolidine (prolintane analogue with benzene as bioisostere of N-propyl) was a very nice, very subtle stimulant. Smoother than cocaine in fact. Duration was longer so step 1 was to swap the 2-phenyl with a 2-p-tolyl which increased serotonin release (making it even smoother and shorter acting). In the end, a 2-ketone moiety was added and it was a lot nicer than MDPV BUT I actually liked the weaker homologue without the ketone....

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Clubcard-I don't like alcohol much, its shitty generally. At least, not in recreational or strongly intoxicant amounts, cold beer on a hot day, definitely but getting drunk, not really. It was just that I was withdrawing, or beginning to, from the morphia and oxy that I take. About 8-9 hours to go until picking up my med refill, so I decided to get a bottle and have it handy, so that I could essentially, rather than tolerate 8-9 hours of sleeplessness and feeling crappy and overstimulated, and cooking alive with soaring body temperature, the dex to block the withdrawal and the ethanol in order to knock me out. Wake up four hours later or so and then just down another 1/3 liter of rum and bottle of cherry wine. Not because I wanted to be drunk, I just required to loose consciousness.

Really not much of a drinker, I prefer chlormethiazole with morphine and a dash of oxy any damn day. Was just practical, shop was open, few minutes walk, and instant supply of OTC general anaesthetic, just a crappy one. I knew I wouldn't have to worry about a hangover for more than a few minutes or so, loaded up on tizanidine as well, and bingo. Job done, lights out, bye bye until the doc surgery opened at 8am, go grab my scripts and then hangover gone with a shot of morphine, a couple of lines of oxy and 3x192mg chlormethiazole caps down the hatch, plus cimetidine, grapefruit juice; to make sure it lasts as long as possible, and 10mg nitrazepam. (note-folk, I'm not recommending anybody actually use this combination, chlormethiazole is dangerous with depressants, if you aren't accustomed to chlormethiazole and opioids, otherwise it could easily kill you. I've been on both pain meds and chlormethiazole for years, I know my limits. In this, do as I say, not as I do. If you aren't acclimatized to both, then you aren't unlikely never to wake up, and NEVER drink alcohol on chlormethiazole. The booze had worn off by the time I'd taken the heminevrin caps and all that was left was its nasty little hangover parting 'gift'. Chlormethiazole&alcohol=time to meet Anubis and Osiris, not like other depressant combinations, as chlormethiazole isn't just a GABAa agonist, its an alcohol dehydrogenase inhibitor and it causes plasma ethanol levels to skyrocket, making 1+1!=3, but 1+1=50. Very, very, very dangerous mixture)

 

[clubcard]

Clubcard-I don't like alcohol much, its shitty generally. At least, not in recreational or strongly intoxicant amounts, cold beer on a hot day, definitely but getting drunk, not really. It was just that I was withdrawing, or beginning to, from the morphia and oxy that I take. About 8-9 hours to go until picking up my med refill, so I decided to get a bottle and have it handy, so that I could essentially, rather than tolerate 8-9 hours of sleeplessness and feeling crappy and overstimulated, and cooking alive with soaring body temperature, the dex to block the withdrawal and the ethanol in order to knock me out. Wake up four hours later or so and then just down another 1/3 liter of rum and bottle of cherry wine. Not because I wanted to be drunk, I just required to loose consciousness.

Really not much of a drinker, I prefer chlormethiazole with morphine and a dash of oxy any damn day. Was just practical, shop was open, few minutes walk, and instant supply of OTC general anaesthetic, just a crappy one. I knew I wouldn't have to worry about a hangover for more than a few minutes or so, loaded up on tizanidine as well, and bingo. Job done, lights out, bye bye until the doc surgery opened at 8am, go grab my scripts and then hangover gone with a shot of morphine, a couple of lines of oxy and 3x192mg chlormethiazole caps down the hatch, plus cimetidine, grapefruit juice; to make sure it lasts as long as possible, and 10mg nitrazepam. (note-folk, I'm not recommending anybody actually use this combination, chlormethiazole is dangerous with depressants, if you aren't accustomed to chlormethiazole and opioids, otherwise it could easily kill you. I've been on both pain meds and chlormethiazole for years, I know my limits. In this, do as I say, not as I do. If you aren't acclimatized to both, then you aren't unlikely never to wake up, and NEVER drink alcohol on chlormethiazole. The booze had worn off by the time I'd taken the heminevrin caps and all that was left was its nasty little hangover parting 'gift'. Chlormethiazole&alcohol=time to meet Anubis and Osiris, not like other depressant combinations, as chlormethiazole isn't just a GABAa agonist, its an alcohol dehydrogenase inhibitor and it causes plasma ethanol levels to skyrocket, making 1+1!=3, but 1+1=50. Very, very, very dangerous mixture)

There are some important facts gleaned from QH-II-66 in dependent users:

1-euphoria & dependence are both mediated by α5β1 subunit
2-opioid receptor activity of alcohol is required to prevent toxic symptoms so while opioid blockers stop ethanol euphoria (it just feels like a hangover after 1 drink) but not QH-II-66
3-α1β1 subunit responsible for orexigenia, ataxia, retrograde amnesia & emotional lability (so people don't fall over or become sad, paranoid, aggressive and so on (look at what Z drugs have done to people).
4-ethanol is a nAChRα9 antagonist increasing nicotine intake.
5-glycine activity of ethanol lowers seizure-threshold & is responsible for anterograde amnesia both actions acute & chronic.
6-ethanol depletes vitamin b6 leading to Korsakoff syndrome.

So, while many books are devoted to the complete action of ethanol, QI-II-66 is a very simple solution. I don't believe the above data was known before the trials that took place on QH-II-66 & my non-CPY2A6 substrate design that isn't metabolized. I don't know the full excretion pathway but am prepared to bet that non-specific blood enzymes bind to the basic nitrogen (gluconic acid?) but it is unbound in urine samples. You start with nothing, you end up with nothing. What have you lost? Nothing.


As I have indicated, there are a stack of materials NOT covered by either the MoDA or PDA with clomethiazole being a great example but many more exist. Nalorphine, naloxone, naltrexone, nalmefene, levallorphan, cyclorphan and if used as a precursor, no license needed for nalbufene, butorphanol, xorphanol, oxilorphan or proxorphan. Far be it for me to point out the gaping holes in the PSA..... but there are gaping holes!

 

[waddell1888]

Well my lucky Brazilian friend in Scotland uk it is 100 pounds for a gram of half decent cocaine that has probably been cut 5-6 times before it even reaches the country so it is an expensive habit to have