On Compassion

[Lovecraft]

I have compassion towards people who do really horrible things, like premeditated murder, especially if they are under the age of 25 at the time of the event because their brains aren't fully developed yet. Thus, I don't agree with executing them. I attribute their behavior to either being fundamentally broken from the beginning or having something happen to them that made them that way, or a combination of the two. Either way, I believe these people are likely not able to fully comprehend the ramifications of their actions at the time. And if they are, I still think it points to something in them being fundamentally broken to be able to do these kinds of things.

Not to get into politics as this isn't the correct forum for it, I believe the anger and therefore, desire for punishment that people have in these situations stems from their need to feel that the crime was addressed somehow. But this is misguided and to punish the person responsible does nothing - both as a deterrent to prevent such crimes and as a way of assuaging the grief and sadness people feel. I actually find it strange that people aren't able to realize this and that as a society we have state sanctioned capital punishment.

My response to anyone saying that if it happened to me I'd feel differently is to point to the people it has happened to that feel the way I do. I believe the only actual real way to get any kind of closure or healing from a situation like this, to the extent it's possible, is to have compassion and understanding for the person who committed the act, as opposed to spending the rest or your life consumed with anger, hatred and a lack of any understanding into why/how this could happen.

I feel like this is a perspective that stems from an emotional/empathic level. Some have described it as Love. But I also feel there is a logical/rational correlative to it as well, otherwise I wouldn't be convinced.

I'm curious how many people on this forum do or do not feel this way.

 

[herbavore]

I completely agree with you.

There was a situation that happened in my town that illustrates this confusion of grief and the need for punishment. There were four high school friends who had grown up together; their parents were also friends and the bonds were deep. One set of parents left town and like millions of teenagers before them their son had the bright idea to have a party (and of course drinking). At one point, when everyone at the party was already too drunk to be making good decisions, the four best friends piled in his parent's second car to go search for more alcohol. The driver lost control of the car and hit a tree at 50 miles per hour. All three of his best friends were killed instantly and somehow he not only survived but with only minor injuries. Needless to say, the boy that felt responsible for the deaths of his three best friends was shattered psychologically. It did not matter how much anyone else blamed him, he would blame himself for the rest of his life. When i read the story I remember thinking oit would have been kinder if he died.


At first the families all supported each other, acknowledging that all four boys got into the car drunk. But over time, and in the depths of grief, the families began to blame the driver. They forgot that their sons were equally responsible for their fate. Grief like that is so powerful and the desire to run from it so strong, that people look for some other emotion to steep themselves in and outrage and blame and anger usually are right there waiting to be of service. The driver was already in jail for the DUI, had already been sentenced to prison time for it and yet these parents who had been such good friends, who knew each others kids almost a s well as their own, sued the family of the driver. Loss piled on loss. Needless to say, that kid's life was already ruined--how does one survive guilt like that? But to have all the adults turn on each other did nothing for anyone. When he got out of prison, he was a wreck and it was no time at all before the headlines in our local paper were full of outrage--surprise, surprise, he was caught drunk driving again. I lost track of what happened to him but I have never forgotten that story.

I have seen parents come through Bluelight, so destroyed by their grief that they are looking for vengeance--they want to shut the site down. I understand the emotion. I felt the same way after my son died. Surely there was somewhere, someone, something to beat my fists against. But the reality is that is simply a way to try to avoid the unavoidable anguish of loss. Americans in particular have made a religion out of outrage. Blame, punishment, even death to the object of outrage. What a sham and what a tragedy. Whoever came up with the concept of closure was way off the mark IMO, but those that equate closure with harsh punishment I just don't understand.

 

[Cosmic Trigger]

Holding grudges etc is not the way to find peace. However forcing oneself to forgive because we "should do it if we are to be compassionate" won't work either. There is a time factor here. I set my goal to forgive and then just wait patiently feeling everything. If while waiting I need to feel hurt, angry, resentful etc. I do just that. Eventually if you really and truly want to find forgiveness and compassion you might just get there. No guarantees in this life.

 

[lazydullard]

I feel deterrent punishment, up to death, is more compassionate because it prevents crimes. Having gone through jail multiple times, there was not once that I did think I was being punished unnecessarily. To let a soul wander to the dark side without deterrents to try and prevent them from becoming a monster is not compassion because criminal behavior also ruins the person's soul.

I believe deterrent force is a good thing. Someone who is broken needs good boundaries to evolve in. It is tragic that they are broken, however no amount of forgiveness and soft law will change that. Only visceral punishment can deter the broken and the psychotic and prevent their decline. In most cases, they are so broken that they cannot stop being broken. That doesn't change that they need boundaries to deter them from worsening.

As to paying justice to the families, I do agree it's a useless sentiment. But the deterrence must be there to prevent more victims.

 

[Cosmic Trigger]

If punishment was a good deterrent compared to rehabilitation lets say, there would not be so many repeat offenders in prisons IMO.

 

[Lovecraft]

I'm not speaking to the practical details of how a society needs to handle people that commit crimes or inflict damage onto others. I'm merely speaking from a certain emotional/psychological attitude that has empathy and compassion towards such people, regardless of the steps needed to be taken in order to keep then from repeating their acts.

 

[mtu mwendawazimu]

No one was born wanting to kill people.

Obviously some outside force, in the environment, led them to such actions.

If only we could have stepped in where they went wrong, gave them a good education, led them in the right direction with empathy and understanding, they would become something greater than what they had become.

Antisocial personalities are very strong willed, and in a lot of aspects progressive. They would make great CEO's, lawyers, and surgeons. If only the had the opportunity.

 

[invegauser]

I feel like this is a perspective that stems from an emotional/empathic level. Some have described it as Love. But I also feel there is a logical/rational correlative to it as well, otherwise I wouldn't be convinced.

convinced because of logic/rational explanation or convinced because you are unsure and picking one side is better than not making a decision at all?

honest question, not to be a smart a** and yes, it's a deep one.

 

[JK25]

I love everyone and everything because love is the highest vibratory frequency attainable. God is love and love is truth and truth is God and Love is God. Love everyone guys, what else is needed?

 

[iridescentblack]

^ I can't see any reason to argue that. I struggle with this philosophy due to my anxiety at times. Were it not for that I would shine more love towards everything always. When I get anxious, though, my feelings of relationships start to melt and I can see my anger and frustration to those closest to me but can't change it, at least not while I'm anxious.

Fortunately I don't think the anger displaces my feelings of love too much. More like just pushes it aside until I feel better. Suffice to say that one's own needs come first in times of stress or desperation. Though we are often working collectively on tasks that help each other. It bothers me I get so irate due to anxiety that I push these tasks aside. Were it solely up to my higher self I'd be trying to help others as much as I can.

 

[Tonberry King]

I love everyone and everything because love is the highest vibratory frequency attainable. God is love and love is truth and truth is God and Love is God. Love everyone guys, what else is needed?

^^^

If only it were THAT simple. Anyone can have compassion and love but not everyone does. Unfortunately, there are those who just don't know real love. They never had it and it is unreasonable to expect them to give what they do not have. It starts at home.. if you want the world to be compassionate teach it. We all want to talk about how bad the kids are today but nobody wants to talk about how bad the parents are; we have to do better at home if we want a better world. Peace.

 

[Foreigner]

I read something a long time ago about the nature of trust. I mean real trust. Trust is its own fragrance, its own essence, its own state of consciousness. You trust because you trust, not because you have a reason to trust. The trust has to do with an inner knowing that everything is OK, no matter what happens, even the worst case scenario.

Love and compassion are the same way, really. Someone could be doing serious harm to you, even torturing you; you could have to react in self-defense, perhaps even gravely injuring or killing them in the process. You could still love them while you're doing it.

I admit that it takes an advanced person to be in that state of consciousness, but I know it's possible. I've witnessed it, experienced it, felt it...

And the bottom line is that who we are is love. Nothing will ever change that. It's the nature of reality consciousness to be interconnected with everything else in existence. The experience of that is unconditional, unshakable love.

If you're coming from that place, then nothing that happens will change one's compassion.

 

[Cosmic Trigger]

Ultimately compassion rules but you need to feel compassion for yourself first to feel it for anyone else IMO. So if you're not feeling compassionate for others then maybe you need to be compassionate towards yourself for not feeling any compassion for someone else. In other words we all feel how we feel and we might just as well accept our feelings as they are. Personally I'd rather be executed than to spend my life in a prison with mostly negative energy day after day.

 

[invegauser]

@Foreigner: you peeping into my head again? i've seen less than 5 people like this irl. makes me wonder if they have a purpose and what it means to those around them. even though this isn't free will and god knows everything thread, i'm still curious on your/anyone's insight.

 

[|~~ANT~~|]

Free will doesn't exist. Some people are victims of fate.
I feel compassion for everyone, including paedophiles and Hitler.

 

[Brendan12]

Compassion exists..because we can feel and sense others pain..which means we want to go with the flow of the energy we feel..which is natural..and therefore the categorical imperative is naturally flowing in the design of helping others..

 

[Cosmic Trigger]

Free will doesn't exist. Some people are victims of fate.
I feel compassion for everyone, including paedophiles and Hitler.

If free will does not exist then all people are victims of fate. I'm glad that you feel compassion even if you don't do it freely. lol

 

[|~~ANT~~|]

Yes, I'm lucky enough to have been raised by good people. I don't take credit for my upbringing or my father's success or his father's success, nor do I take credit for the privilege of being born in Australia in a good neighbourhood... People are largely a result of circumstance. If someone is raised in a poor neighbourhood, they are statistically more likely to commit various violent crimes. This doesn't make them "bad" people. They are unfortunate. They are victims of fate.

Those who fate smiles on are not victims. I am not a victim of fate. I am the opposite.

 

[Cosmic Trigger]

Excellent. I find your awareness of these realities refreshing.

 

[Foreigner]

@Foreigner: you peeping into my head again? i've seen less than 5 people like this irl. makes me wonder if they have a purpose and what it means to those around them. even though this isn't free will and god knows everything thread, i'm still curious on your/anyone's insight.

To coin a model... most of humanity lives in the lower three chakras: the emotional body, the pleasure/desire body, and the survival body. Very few human beings live in the heart body. Many can partially live there based on circumstantial attachments, like parent and child, romantic partners, etc. People who have a strong cultivated heart centre that generates love unconditionally across any situation... it's rare.

For most of us who choose to do the work, compassion is a choice and a practice. I don't always succeed but the more I try the more my inner world makes sense. Also like I said, our true nature is love and peace. Anyone who meditates knows this. When ego is quiet, love, peace and harmony prevail... always. So my sense is that doing a compassion practice on a mind/ego level brings the ego in sync with the true nature of consciousness so that they can work together more harmoniously.

The free will thing is a tired argument. The way that humans have free will is through how they apply meaning to their circumstances. Free will doesn't mean omnipotence and therefore if you aren't free to do whatever you want then you're not actually free. We don't control samsara but we can control our perception of it, through the way we choose to see things. You don't actually need affirmation from duality to choose meaning. If all you do is suffer, then it's your task to find meaning in the suffering. Everything has a seeming appearance and that appearance may be factually out there somewhere but it can only be witnessed/generated by a mind-body that consciousness is attached to. So you have some say in how the "world treats you".

There have been books written by holocaust survivors and most of them agree that the survivors of camps are not necessarily the ones with the most physical strength and endurance, but the ones who found meaning in their suffering. The people who chose apathy (no meaning) perished quickly.