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Clonidine to block stimunant effects of kratom

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dthorse5

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Joined
Aug 18, 2017
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24
I read kratoms stimulant effects are from being
And alpha 2 antagonist. I was wondering if clonidine being a potent alpha 2 agonist would nulify this.

I also wanna try mixing isopropylphenidate low dose with kratom, is there any negative interactions between the 3 ?

I have read clonidine and stims is a no go but have never noticed anything from mixing them and am scripted dexedrine and clonidine from the same doctor.
 
Beta-blockers and stimulants are contraindicated. This is because that released nor/adrenaline has to go somewhere, and that somewhere is alpha receptors, causing a paradoxical vasoconstrictive effect. Clonidine works differently, by suppressing release of noradrenaline.

Clonidine does indeed help with kratom's peripheral alpha2 based nastiness. There may be other stimulant effects because of DOR-agonism from the likes of mitragynine pseudindoxyl. But I've taken clonidine and kratom together (I take clonidine daily), and to the very best of my knowledge, clonidine, given it reduces the release of noradrenaline rather than blocks any of its targets forcing it to bind elsewhere, its much safer than beta blockers, in such cases, and doesn't seem to play bad with stimulants, if anything, the opposite.
 
I really don?t know why I haven?t considered this before. Taking an irreversible MAO inhibitor has had me wary of trying kratom should it ever come my way. Prescribed clonidine too so maybe some very cautious exploration with Shulginesque titration, BP monitor and sober sitter could be possible.

Somewhat off topic but does anyone have anything to add about clonidine potentially making the use of khat, ephedra or Sida cordifolia safer in conjunction with an MAOI?

Would pre-dosing with small doses of both an alpha and a beta blocker (ie. prazosin and propranolol) be a good idea in theory to make this kind of exploration even safer?
 
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That sounds like a risky combination. It's possible it isn't tho I guess. I always heard MAOI potentiate the side effects of stimulants is why ithe wasn't good
 
Yes and no, it?s bit complicated. Certain stimulants won?t even be able to be combined at any worthwhile dose while others will lend a bit of room to therapeutic and perhaps some limited recreational use, but the latter is extremely risky. The main issues with stimulants and MAOIs is the amount of NE ending up in the synapse by release from the presynaptic neuron or in the case of 5-HT, release and/or SERT inhibition. Stimulants like MDMA, Methamphetamine and Cocaine are dangerous with MAOIs due to the possibility of serotonin syndrome and/or hypertensive crisis from 5-HT release/SERT inhibition and/or NE release, respectively. Moving over to say, ephedrine; the risk is limited to hypertensive crisis from NE release. Some stimulants are in fact quite safe with MAOIs provided caution is exercised. Methylphenidate, while officially contraindicated, is actually fairly safe in conjunction with an MAOI as it works by DAT and NET inhibition. Amphetamine is actually occasionally prescribed to MAOI patients at low doses. The NE release at therapeutic doses is not often enough to induce hypertensive crisis.

I hope that was clear enough. It?s been a long day :)
 
Why are you trying to counter-act the stimulant effects of kratom? Do you want more of pure-opiate feeling? Have you tired different strains and or higher doses?
 
Some people just don't take well to alpha2 adrenergic autoreceptor antagonism. I should know, I am one of them, it makes me feel REALLY ill. Severe akathisia, I overload (in the autistic sense) like you wouldn't fucking believe and just about want to curl up in the foetal position and die. Although its just the former that happens. Curl up in the foetal position and rock until its over. And then the terrible after-effects. I feel drained, pale and shaky, and best thing is for me, to dose myself with opiates, a couple of extra chlormethiazole, and take one or two nitrazepam tabs from the repeat script I accidentally got left with thanks to a doctor's oversight.
 
Ya the stimulation makes me shake i wanna block it and use isopropylphenidate as a stimulant with it so far it works ok can take up to 20 grams with .2,g clonidine and its not jitterey at all.
 
Bali and red vien maeng da atm , ive actually not noticed a great difference in different strains
 
I've definitely noticed a difference between red/green/white, but you are right that further variation seems to drop off after that, especially with the most commerically popular strains such as bali/maeng da/bornea. But some of the lesser used strains have surprised me with just how different their effects have been. I'd say red Bentuangie, Vietnamese, or even Kalimantan(my favorite) are the most opiate like. But even more important than strain is your vendor, quality can vary wildly between vendor, and in fact I suspect many vendors(perhaps unknowingly) are selling the same kratom under different names, and kratom of supposedly the same variety/source can be completely different from vendor to vendor.
 
Coolwhip said:
I've definitely noticed a difference between red/green/white, but you are right that further variation seems to drop off after that, especially with the most commerically popular strains such as bali/maeng da/bornea. But some of the lesser used strains have surprised me with just how different their effects have been. I'd say red Bentuangie, Vietnamese, or even Kalimantan(my favorite) are the most opiate like. But even more important than strain is your vendor, quality can vary wildly between vendor, and in fact I suspect many vendors(perhaps unknowingly) are selling the same kratom under different names, and kratom of supposedly the same variety/source can be completely different from vendor to vendor.
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Yeah.. a friend of mine sent me some 'yellow vietnam' and it was the best kratom I've ever used. I'm not sure where the 'yellow' comes from. I initially thought it was just a marketing ploy... but whatever it was, it worked good.
 
llugguss said:
The most important thing when you use Clonidine to withdraw from an opiate such as Kratom is to use it properly because it will play a key role in how effective it will be in the process of easing the opiate withdrawal symptoms. It doesn't matter if the Kratom belongs to the best kratom brand or not, if you'll use Clonidine properly, it will reduce your anxiety, it will help you fall and stay asleep, and you'll most probably get rid of the chills and goosebumps. Just remember to have patience and the results will come along the way.
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interesting. i have clonidine here i have never used because i see no reason to. but does it really, is it actually helpful with opiate withdrawal or is that mostly marketing i have read about? i have heard and read about it helping SOMEHOW and i got it prescribed 15 years ago before suboxone hit big and all i remember now is lowering my blood pressure to the point of passing out. i guess thats one way to deal with the withdrawal eh?
 
Limpet_Chicken said:
Beta-blockers and stimulants are contraindicated. This is because that released nor/adrenaline has to go somewhere, and that somewhere is alpha receptors, causing a paradoxical vasoconstrictive effect. Clonidine works differently, by suppressing release of noradrenaline.

Clonidine does indeed help with kratom's peripheral alpha2 based nastiness. There may be other stimulant effects because of DOR-agonism from the likes of mitragynine pseudindoxyl. But I've taken clonidine and kratom together (I take clonidine daily), and to the very best of my knowledge, clonidine, given it reduces the release of noradrenaline rather than blocks any of its targets forcing it to bind elsewhere, its much safer than beta blockers, in such cases, and doesn't seem to play bad with stimulants, if anything, the opposite.
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i have experience with kratom and tianeptine and i get the same crappy noraedrenaline experience. i suppose clonidine will also help with those harsh stimu hangovers from tianeptine. interesting info, thanks!
 
this thread was from 2018

clonidine tends to help some aspects of opioid withdrawal (unpleasant stimulation, elevated blood pressure, etc) and as you also note, it can also help by effectively knocking you out
generally it is not used on its own though
 
i dont feel anything from clonidine tho. maybe its expired pills. whats the typical dose for opiate wd??
 
Usually the dose is 0.1mg but can be titrated up, I think.
 
nope. do not feel a thing. maybe its very subtle. does it help with anxiety too? usually blood pressure medicines help with anxiety as well. maybe thats why its also good for alcohol wd as far as i know. but anyway, definitely need much higher dose!
 
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