Getting ready for battle with monkey on my back, please help with a timeline.

[PinzAndNeedlez]

So it's been 5 years on H. Used to be half a g a day, but now down to 3 bags per. I have just acquired 8-8mg Sub strips, 30 clonodine, and 2 differnt kinds of kratom. I still have a few bags left. I need advice on a timeline. I'm completely ready do this, but I'm kinda overwhelmed on when i should do what, and how much. Any advice would be great. Thank you

 

[Mafioso]

I've never personally used subs or clonodine and don't know much about them or proper dosing, but I have gone through some pretty heavy WDs, both opioid and benzo.

I know subs have a pretty long half life which is part of why they are useful for this type of thing. You will probably be dosing only once per day, no more than twice with the sub. You want to find a dose that "stabilizes" you if you can. A dose that takes away the WDs without getting you high. If your supply is limited, this may not be an option though. If that is the case, a slow and steady taper would be the next best thing. Something like 4mg a day for the first week, 2mg a day second week, 1mg a day for 2 weeks, then .5mg until gone. Again, not familiar with dosage so these numbers are arbitrary.

Basically you want to try to step off slowly so the opiates leave your body more smoothy rather than if you were to cold turkey and the opioids would abruptly leave the body.

It's going to be a while until you can start feeling good again and you have a rough road to get past with the WDs, but the struggle is worth it. One of the best things you can do for yourself and for those that love you is getting off that stuff.


Have you tried getting clean before? I'm guessing if you were hitting half a g a day you are well aware of dope sickness... do you have a plan of attack for dealing with those things? Stock your house with canned food, like chicken noodle soup, ramen noodles, gatorade, water, pedialite, and other food you can eat without much of an appetite, that won't go bad, and that is easy to prepare. Maybe cereal and chips... you probably wont feel like eating much but will need to eat something. Staying hydrated is important too with all the fluids you will be loosing.

I've heard low doses of DXM can help with some of the WDs as well. There are other threads out there full of this type of information, but don't be afraid to ask either- that's what this forum is here for. Immodium can help with the diarhea.

Feel free to start a blog here or reach out on these forums for support along the way as well. They have helped me along my recovery and a lot of other people as well.

 

[Tombs]

This is the time to pamper yourself.

Chemically, you seem pretty well stocked up to take care of many of the WD symptoms.

H is my doc but my last relapse was with percocet and for the first time (thanks to krazykat and other BLers) I tried red bali kratom and it worked great. I'm almost 100% back to normal, physically. I haven't even taken kratom today and I'm on like day 7-8 or something, with a minor fuckup on day 3-4 with some lean.

You might not sleep much. You may have restless legs. I have RLS regardless. There may be nausea and diarrhea. Your emotions might be all over the place. Myself and a lot of people in our situation are super hard on themselves and I beat myself up a lot. Shit, when I go through WDs I cry a lot more than a bipolar person should. If you can, don't be too rough on yourself, it just makes it harder. At least wait until you aren't physically withdrawing so bad.

Like I said before, try to pamper yourself. On my worst days I like to lay in the tub with the shower running over my whole body for about an hour. I leave the lights off and I put on relaxing stuff like thunderstorms or public radio. Aromatherapy is cool.

I don't know shit about subs or clonodine. I've never taken em. I've read on here that magnesium helps with RLS but I haven't tried this yet I am likely going to try soon because, as I mentioned before, I've always had the most irritating RLS.

I find that the medical weed I get comes in a moderately close second to kratom, but if you're trying to stay sober, you may be opposed to this. This is the only way I can eat while in withdrawal.

To answer your final question as far as timeline, it's difficult to tell, there are so many variables. For me it's always at least a week before I physically feel good enough to do stuff around the house, work out, go to the store and generally be around others, etc. The mental obsession varies from person to person. It really helps to have a cheap hobby to stay occupied. For example, I bird-watch and insect-watch and keep detailed notes. Find something affordable you like and stay busy. Also, try to be altruistic. Help people. Open doors, help your family paint, volunteer for something, whatever.

I want to emphasize again to try not to be too hard on yourself at first and really try to look yourself in the mirror and try to see a person that deserves to feel good and be happy. Pamper yourself. I say this again because I always make this mistake and make my own life so much more unbearable.

Good luck.

 

[Joey]

I cannot possibly design a personalized plan of action for you, especially with all that different stuff, but I can share a little information I know about tapering.

Here's a link I found for opiate tapering. After that I'm gonna give you rule I've found on my own.

http://nationalpaincentre.mcmaster.ca/opioid/cgop_b_app_b12.html

How much can you say you can get away with reducing a dose in a day? Say you're totally unable to find good heroin, or enough. How much is JUST enough to NOT feel absolutely horrible? Some horrible is ok, because you will never escape that. I've tried cold turkey opiate withdrawal, and I will tell you it's a fuckin mess. It's possible to do because people do in fact cold turkey this shit but it's a mess. I needed a methadone program unfortunately after 5 or 6 days cold turkey detox. I was not so strong at the time and work was in a day or two (did this over christmas holidays 2016. nothing like going to detox christmas day!)

Maybe now I could have done it cause Ive found a lot of empowerment lately, but back then I didn't for a bunch of reasons. Wish I did.. Anyway. going on...

I found, personally, about 2/3 of a daily dose is MANAGEABLE. Like if my optimum use was 3 30's IV hydromorph then 2 CAN be adequate.

A heavy taper in my opinion in a rule of thirds. Every day, scale back 1/3. 100% instantly make it 66%. The NEXT DAY go take that 66% and make it 44. The NEXT DAY bring that to approx 30%. Then 20% Then 13.33% approx etc. These low low numbers that's where you considering cutting the shit and going cold turkey. I guess this is where your clonidine and stuff can come in.

I quit smoking this way switching to nicotine substitution methods, immediately switching to vape with high nic and then every few days reducing the nicotine until I was near zero and then I stopped with NO ill effects. It took a lot of SELF REGULATION and WILLPOWER though. THings which I lost 7 months later when I bummed a smoke one day and then the next I bought a pack.

I know that cigarettes aren't heroin, but they are addictive almost equally. I know I didn't STAY quit, but that was purely mindset, I fucked up. You're substituting a bunch of things here. I hope it's enough. You need to make DO with what you have and stick to it. if not, just go to a fuckin detox. seriously. dont worry about mt story about how I was worried about going to work in 2 days so I started methadone, I should called in sick a couple extra days and fuck them. I wish I did that. Methadone is THE PITS to QUIT and even as a taper it is far worse than heroin.

EDIT: Methadone saved my life in other ways though. It took the criminal and financial aspect of dope out of my life 100%.

 

[PinzAndNeedlez]

Unfortunately, i don't have enough of maintenance stuff to taper ideally. Im hoping to get past the physical in 4-5 days with minimum amount of subs. Then supplements for the mental.

 

[herbavore]

Unfortunately, i don't have enough of maintenance stuff to taper ideally. Im hoping to get past the physical in 4-5 days with minimum amount of subs. Then supplements for the mental.

Don't forget all the non-substance resources available for the mental aspects. Hobbies/passions, meditation, conscious breathing, mindfulness, etc. You have to give the mind something to expand into--something engaging that kindles change and a newer level of faith in your own capacity to address whatever led you into addiction initially.

 

[chompy]

One way to use subs and clonidine is this way, but you do need a blood pressure monitor. You don't want to be taking the clonidine and subs together unless your bp is over the 120/80 range.

Cold turkey the H and when you start to feel REALLY sick probably about 12 hours in, try taking 4mg subs and wait 2 to 3 hours. It takes a while to reach peak effect. If it doesn't help enough, take the other 4mg. Most detox places start you off with a 8mg dose followed up by some benzos a few hours later. Clonidine can be taken twice a day if bp is high and it helps with the sweating. You really only want to take 1 strip a day max.

Lower the doses of sub and clonidine over the next few days as you feel better because there is the possibility of a 'second wind' withdrawal but it is much more mild.