Questions About Diethyl Ether Danger

[Jimbob25]

After endless googling, I came up to no conclusion. I know it has been used as an anesthetic in the past and that it is considered safer than haloalkanes and other inhalants(eww). But is there a consensus regarding long term effects, specifically carcinogenicity? Is it probable, or likely? Can you get it from using once or twice? I looked up the metabolites(when they actually form) and it is ethanol, acetaldehyde(which is considered a carcinogen, but it also forms after drinking alcohol), ethyl glucuronide and acetic acid, which do not have a concerning safety profile. Someone on reddit just told me it is carcinogenic. Don't really know what to make of it. What do you think?

 

[belligerent drunk]

Diethyl ether is pretty benign as far as solvents go, to my knowledge it's less toxic than ethanol. And no, you don't get cancer from coming into contact with a carcinogen once or twice (there are exceptions, but ether ain't one). What you might find more unpleasant is stinking like a gas station for the next 24 hours after doing it. Ether is actually fun, but the latter aspect was the reason I abandoned it.

 

[FlyingDutchman342]

I guess the physical damage isn't very concerning. It has been used as an alcohol substitute in many countries during times of low alcohol availibility. It appears to be quite safe at least at low doses.If it was very toxic, it wouldn't be used so widely in laboratories, where people are regularly exposed to it.
Unfortunately, diethyl ether is highly flammable. Inhaling ether will create a vapour/air mixture around you that could easily ignite. It's effects are very similar to those of alcohol, so you could just have a drink instead. If you're going to use it anyway, please make sure there are no flames or burning cigarettes around.
Regarding recreational use I found this article quite helpful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ether_addiction

 

[belligerent drunk]

^ two problematic statements:

1) As long as you work in a fume hood and know what you're doing, you can work with pretty toxic stuff. The fact that it's a common solvent doesn't necessarily mean it's safe to ingest. I've worked more frequently with more toxic solvents than ether.

2) Not sure if you've tried ether, but at higher dosages it's not like ethanol at all. It's more of a dissociative than an anxiolytic-sedative-hypnotic.

That said, the general consensus is that diethyl ether isn't (at least acutely) harmful.

 

[Pilll_head]

I agree with belligerent. I work every day in a fume hood with solvents such as ether and others that are much worse for you. We generally try to limit our exposure to these but everyone will accidentally get a whiff now and then. Exposure to ether is most definitely safer than haloalkanes or spraypaint fumes/thinner, the metabolites are not particularly dangerous at low doses. I think I would be more concerned, just in general, about acute damage to your lung tissue from too much organic vapors of any sort, including ether. If you are noticing shortness of breath, a nagging cough, irritation, phlegm, etc then I would definitely stop inhaling stuff altogether.

 

[The.Ghost]

All of the above depends on what kind of ether you have. Lab-grade ether (i.e. the pure stuff) is as described above. The crap that comes in cans as "starting fluid" is actually a mixture of ether and alkanes (around C7, heptane), which are about as bad for you as gasoline. There isn't a practical way to get the pure stuff from the auto shop stuff. Where are you getting your ether from, OP?

 

[Keif' Richards]

I was not aware of any negative effects aside from ether addiction which apparently could be quite strong you must be careful when using ether obviously because it can be quite flammable and can make yourself quite flammable and your place of living also quite flammable so be careful the fumes lie close to the ground as opposed to rising up

 

[zephyr]

Its a solvent thats used in my field of work as is chloroform. Ive been pondering having a play with both substances but havent. If its any good for you id like some feedback m8

 

[Lorne???]

^ Uh, please don’ Use chloroform RC?

What is your line of work, Zephyr? ( You will probably ignore me, though I am nice as could be)

 

[Lorne???]

I was not aware of any negative effects aside from ether addiction which apparently could be quite strong you must be careful when using ether obviously because it can be quite flammable and can make yourself quite flammable and your place of living also quite flammable so be careful the fumes lie close to the ground as opposed to rising up

Thank You, Keif- Yes, fire should be taken more seriously, especially something that doesn’t readily rise- take note, if you smoke

 

[zephyr]

^ Uh, please don’ Use chloroform RC?

What is your line of work, Zephyr? ( You will probably ignore me, though I am nice as could be)

Id rather not say what my actual job title is for privacy reasons but those solvents are used to dissolve human fat. It gets in the way thats all .

 

[Lorne???]

I got it narrowed down ^ Probably - Thanks for politeness Zephyr- I am the Frog Mod-(means I’m a mole)

 

[Keif' Richards]

Would close at this point, but I want to first expose you to the enclave of BL-intelligentsia that is Advanced/Neuro.

Moved

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Chloroform should definitely be avoided. Its a halogenated hydrocarbon and has the expectable hepatotoxicity. Also it sensitizes the myocardium to the action of catecholamines which can lead to a sudden shock (I.e unexpected surprise) causing cardiac arrhythmias.

Ether on the other hand is much more benign. If acetaldehyde is a metabolite then it can't be produced in huge quantities, like it does when ethanol is drunk in large amounts, a few hours after drinking alcohol I can taste that horrid fruity smell of acetaldehyde on my breath, whilst after drinking or inhaling either diethyl or diisopropyl ether then it just isn't there. Can taste the ether but not acetaldehyde or propionaldehyde after inhaling or orally taking either.

I'd start with a few ml if dosing orally, ideally floated on an iced soft drink shot and with a chaser handy. It lasts a lot longer by mouth, and hits harder.

DEFINITELY no smoking around ethers, they tend to be flammable as fuck, and diethyl/diisopropyl ether are no exceptions. Also one needs to be careful in storage to make sure the fuckers don't peroxidize. Diisopropyl ether being MUCH more prone to formation of violently explosive, highly brisant and EXTREMELY sensitive alkylidene peroxides and needs testing with a drop placed on iodide-starch strips (the oxidizing nature of the peroxide oxidizes iodide ion to iodine which reacts with the starch to give the characteristic blue-black indigo colour of starch reacting with iodine. The deeper the color the more peroxide present. And if present then it needs to be treated to destroy them, then distilled, as long as no peroxides are visible as even traces of solid, then the peroxides destroyed. There are a fair number of ways to do so, and they are documented online. Also never distill ethers to dryness if they contain peroxide or else if they could conceivably have come into the presence of air during a reaction, as those little fuckers are EXTREMELY shock/friction/absence of three 'hail mary's sensitive and damn powerful explosives.

They need to be checked regularly for peroxidation as these can form in storage.

But if its a small quantity of ether, such as sufficient for a session then no need to worry, since it'll all be gone fairly quickly.

Its best done, IMO from a small bottle, into which is poured a measure of ether, similar to how an alcohol shot is measured, and then after making sure the main container of ether is elsewhere and capped, and then breathing through the nose from the bottle mouth, that way its controllable, if used by inhalation, for oral use, a few ml floated on an ice cold drink is ideal. Although another way is a cocktail I came up with, I call it the manhattan project, a pun on the US nuclear warfare R&D program and the manhattan cocktail. Its codeine linctus (ironically, and surprisingly, there is a brand in the uk that includes a little chloroform, presumably as either flavour or preservative, and it works perfectly in this. that goes on the bottom of a long glass, and carefully, lime soda is floated on top of the thick syrup, ideally with the vodka added first, not too much because ether is potent as hell, but just enough to taste in the lime soda, then a sqeeze of fresh lime, and a couple of lemon and a lime slice are used to trap a little glass containing ether on one side, cut so as to fit together in a closed gate-like pattern, two over the glass and one bridging the other two to hold the shot in place. the ether diluted with a SMALL amount of vodka, just enough to give it sufficient volume to go down the hatch and pour easily, and then downed in one. The lime/vodka blend washes down the ether then the thick codeine syrup coats the throat.

 

[Tubbs]

Moved this to N&P for keif.

 

[sekio]

Because diethyl ether's boiling point is 35C, 2 degrees below average human body temperature, most of it is actually excreted as a vapor from the skin and lungs. This means that only a limited amount will get metabolized to ethanol/acetaldehyde, IIRC more than 90% of diethyl ether is excreted unchanged.

As a corollary this means that after doing ether you will continue to smell it on/around you for several days. It's rather unpleasant.

Although, if you're going to mess with inhalants, diethyl ether is probably physiologically one of the safer ones, just don't neglect its flammability.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Yeah definitely no smoking or being around non-sparkless motors with it.

And days of smelling like ether is a bit much, its hours. A fair few hours but not a day. Not unless one were to take a bath in it and use one's clothing as a rag. Oral it only really comes up when you belch, although its tastable generally.

And besides who could fail to LOVE the scent of ether. It smells almost good enough to drink...oh, wait, (pure, clean) ether IS good enough to drink even makes at least one nice cocktail. I need to start experimenting more, and come up with a sequel to the manhattan project. Could call it an 'ivy mickey finn' perhaps, or make a three-layered one and call it a 'trinity'. I bet I could come up with more than just my manhattan project cocktail. I wish the codeine linctus wasn't so hard to get, because for the manhattan project it HAS to be 'care+' brand linctus, which is flavoured with chloroform, which complements the vodka and lime layer poured on top of the codeine syrup perfectly.

Maybe something based on Gee's linctus next. Gee's, a liquorice vodka or aperitif to suit the drink, then the ether added to just a little bit of vodka (we are talking a spoonful or two here of vodka, just enough to make sure the few ml of ether actually exits its little cup/glass and can be drunk without just disappearing rather than to get pissed)

Or maybe gee's and ouzo or raki, I think that might work, maybe sambuca but I'm leaning towards raki.
Should taste pretty good I'd bet, especially if using diethyl only rather than diisopropyl or diethyl/diisopropyl ether mixtures.

 

[Weltmeister]

Is there any way to prevent ether from forming peroxides that doesnt involve toxic compounds ?

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Its usually supplied with an inhibitor. A few ppm of butylated hydroxytoluene or butylated hydroxyanisole. Both BHT and BHA are also used in food intended to be consumed by people, so I'd not worry about swallowing a few parts per hundreds of millions of either, its never done me any harm. Also one can store it over sodium metal in little chips, small enough not to catch fire, or sodium wire. Also adding a strip of copper helps avoid peroxide formation. Just distill before use, and bear in mind that the ether needs to be DRY before you add sodium metal. Calcium would be a fantastic alternative because its reactive enough to dry thoroughly but at the same time, calcium in granular form isn't pyrophoric. Alkali or suitable alkaline earth metals reduce and destroy the peroxides as they form, BHT/BHA and copper help stop them forming. Test regularly all the same. Also, when I use say, THF, DIPE, EtOEt, dioxane, etc. I purge the container by sparging with a bottle of argon and then also fill the headspace of the cans (usually 5 liters or 10 liters at a time, except for dioxane which I make by roughly a gallon, or in 1, 2.5 or 5l batches from antifreeze, condensing with H2SO4 and distilling, before removing the tar) etc. because ethylene glycol concentrate comes in such sized cans.

(a lot cheaper than buying it, in the case of dioxane, because perfectly good 1,4-dioxane can be had from antifreeze concentrate grade ethylene glycol and bog stripper sulfuric. Cheap and cheerful and the result once distilled is just fine)

 

[Pomzazed]

Put solid grains of NaOH to your ether, it wont dissolve and just sink to the buttom but will inhibit accumulation of peroxide