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Did I have serotonin syndrome?

danielsomers

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
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Hello All. I have worked with E a lot, threapeutically, both with others and on my own. I did last night and followed with 100 mg 5HTP and had a very bad reaction that I think must have been serotonin syndrome and would like to get your thoughts and perhaps confirmation.

I had an initial 70 mg at 6:00 and then a booster of a little more than that, maybe 80 - 90, at 8:00. It tends to wind down fairly quickly for me compared to most other people and at 1:00 am, so five hours out, I thought I was headed for sleep and that it was far enough out to take 5HTP. Big mistake! After perhaps an hour I got really sick, but it doesn't seem to quite fit descriptions I'm seeing of SS. It's actually hard to remember in detail. Really intense mental state--I kept seeing, over and over, some sort of warning a friend had posted on facebook about just what I was going through--though at that point I hadn't made the 5HTP connection in my mind, wondered if I might have developed a new and odd sensitivity to the E, or if even it was contaminated...which it couldn't really have been. Mostly I just felt awful--I can't say exactly, just really bad physically--and also had really disturbing pain around my temples and eyes, which is still there just a little over 14 hours out. (I had lasik surgery some years ago and ever since once or twice a year get a headachy-inflammation feeling in that area, feels like maybe optic nerves, but I don't know.) Then after a while I started to feel nauseaus and eventually threw up--quite a lot of liquid, more than a quart, which surprised me because I was a little concerned about not drinking enough water and hadn't consumed any I think for an hour at least. After that I was better--clearly the body wanted something to come OUT--but still pretty sick and am only just now getting close to normal function--slept all through the day.

The thing is, I didn't have any arm or leg tremors, any racing heartbeat (except maybe while vomiting, though perhaps it was there otherwise and I didn't realize it?) I suppose the mental thing about that warning--it kept coming back, like a loop that keeps relplaying, involved a certain sort of restlessness and confusion--actually, now that I write that...yes, probably so. No diarrhea, except maybe just a peep at the point of....maximal bodily effusion, orally speaking. Mostly I was pretty out of it, coming in and out of (restless) sleep, unable to understand or get a handle on it. Right, so confusion and restlessness--maybe I've answered my own question. And from what I'm seeing 5 hours out is really too soon for the 5HTP. A big lesson in carefulness and the need to plan things out meticulously and stick with it.

Please chime in if you have any thoughts. Thank you!
 
It doesn't sound like serotonin syndrome. Usually in serotonin syndrome you get hot as hell and sweat like crazy among other things.
Is this the same E you had before? If not it may be bad quality.
 
P.S. I also just remembered that I had half a tramadol, 50 mg, about 30+ hours before. Half-life is 8 hrs., so seems unlikely...but maybe it causes elevated serotonin after leaving your system? No tramadol prior to that one dose.
 
Yeah, same--have used it numerous times, and had it tested for purity when I got it. Do people ever develop a hyper-sensitivity to E over time? I do think in general I feel the after-effects more, but this seems very different.
 
Maybe its something unrelated to E.
Maybe you got food poisoning or some other sort of infection and it is just a coincidence.
 
Ummm, maybe, but I don't think so. I ate little earlier in the day and all very routine, simple food. And it just came so quickly and strong after the 5HTP. But certainly something sounds atypical and I'm staying open. Thanks, Ionized, for your thoughts!
 
Tramadol and MDMA do not go, and it might have played a role. Doesn't sound at all like serotonin syndrome though.

It sounds like more of a panic attack causing a thought loop based on a vivid cognitive hallucination. The hallucination is just repeating and making you anxious and panicked, and its just playing on a loop.
 
I'm pretty sure the cognitive loop was coming out of being very ill--like if you have the flu and fever, at night you might get weird in the head. But I was asleep before, so I guess you never know if there was something more mental going on--but also I've never had anything like that with E before. The physical sickness was really intense, and I don't recall anxiety, more like miserable body sickness.But it does sound from you guys like it's not SS--is that because no termors in the limbs and no racing heart?
 
Sorry, I had only skim read your post earlier, this is a more complete response. It's impossible to say if you've got serotonin syndrome or not, but I'd genuinely like to understand why exactly you think it is. What exactly were your symptoms - a repeating hallucination and sickness? Both could easily be attributed to MDMA. I've seen a friend get stuck in a weird loop on the tail end of MDMA before, and IME it's common to hallucinate on the tail end when trying to sleep.

I'm pretty sure the cognitive loop was coming out of being very ill--like if you have the flu and fever, at night you might get weird in the head.

^This could definitely be caused by a panic attack viewed through the lens of a mind altering substance.

My understanding of serotonin syndrome is that it is a medical emergency, and, hopefully this doesn't sound sarcastic, but you'd probably be in a hospital rather than making queries online. That said, if you think you're ill, get yourself checked into a&e... better to be safe than sorry. Perhaps this was an adverse effect, it's really very hard to say... which is why I'd genuinely recommend getting checked out. Tramadol and MDMA is considered a dangerous combo - throw in some 5htp and who knows what could happen.
 
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MDMA comeups can be incredibly harsh. This one time I came up so hard I was absolutely certain, just from my physical symptoms, that I was definitely dying. Not just a panic attack, there was legit a severe increased in body temperature, heartrate above 200bpm, extreme dizziness etc. Thought it was either SS or I'd taken PMA. As soon as I peaked I was 100% fine in every way. If you found a sudden loss of the nasty symptoms then it was probably just the comeup. Thought loops come from panic attacks and anxiety usually.
 
Okay, thanks guys--I'm fine now, do not appear to be any lasting effects. We'll chalk it up to unclear interaction of things, I might next time do a low dose without booster just to be careful.

Tranced, it is helpful to hear that you've seen weird loops at the tail end--I've never had or seen it before, but could be. I had some intense anger about a very bad early life relationship come up during the journey, but still the bulk of it was beneath the surface I'm sure, basically to hot to handle, so can imagine something related to that could have been percolating. I'm not feelin' it, really, but it does seem possible.

Very much appreciate your thoughts. D
 
Tranced, good question as to exactly why I thought that. During the worst of it, before being sick, I was pretty out of it but occasionally thought WTF!, as I could see no cause (and don't recall anxiety), it was like it was just out of the blue. Then, I think after being sick, I suddenly realized I might have taken the 5-HTP too soon, only five hours from the booster. It was really quite intense and inexplicable, so that suddenly jumped out as a cause. I've read a few things saying serotonin syndrome can be more or less severe, not necessarily bad enough for hospital or emergency room. Also, I did feel pretty poorly through the following day, though clearly improving, so that to me suggests something more physical than panic attack. But I do realize the symptoms don't quite fit SS.

Also, it got much better once I'd been sick, seemed like the body was really trying to get rid of something. Could panic attack be like that?

Do you think the tramadol 30 hours prior to E, and with 8 hour half-life, would still be a factor? But there also, isn't SS the main concern?

P.S. Actually, "out of the blue" may be misleading. Don't remember too well, but I think the nausea came on gradually--maybe a sense of something brewing and thinking, hmm that's odd, and then it got worse.
 
Name that mystery illness

This is a more succinct post than one I did yesterday, and slightly revised in content, just to see if there are any other opinions. Apologies for redundancy!

Was this serotonin syndrome or panic attack? Or other? This was alone at home, starting 6 pm, quiet introspective space.

0:00 65 mg (tested, pure)
2:00 ~ 80 mg
7:00 mostly over, perceptually speaking, 100 mg 5HTP, headed for sleep
~ 7:00 - 9:00, becoming very ill. Unsure of onset time, memory is fuzzy but best estimation:Mild and increasing nausea. Eventually feeling "very sick," in a general, full-body way, and increasingly in stomach, also fairly severe pain around temples and behind eyes. In and out of semi-consciousness, with a recurring loop of a facebook post from a friend warning about what I am experiencing.
9:00 Vomiting, fairly intense, yielding over a quart of liquid. (Had had no liquid intake for at least an hour, maybe two.) Immediately better, but still pretty sick , gradually becoming well, sleeping most of the time until about 18:00. Not completely up to snuff until 30:00 to 36:00.

It came very much out of the blue, was perplexing. My first thought later, upon remembering that's early to take 5-HTP, was serotonin syndrome--and there was "confusion" and "agitation," listed as symptoms, at the time of that recurring facebook warning. Though I realize it doesn't fit the symptoms too well in other regards, and it's been suggested it may have been panic attack. I think there was some increased sweating and heartbeat but that it was mostly related to vomiting. I did not feel any anxiety specifically, but I think I tend to repress it even when it's present.

One thing: I did have something during the experience that was, for the first time (I've done a lot of work with this and other substances, both guided and alone), deep anger related to something from childhood, and later implications, that is very deep, very difficult, and that is highly repressed--I barely remember--so it occurred to me that possibly something about that emergence could have triggered something like a panic attack once the drug effect had worn off and normal defenses back on line. I have never had a panic attack of that sort related to substances or anything else, but this is deeply disturbing psychic material, I think as yet not fully remembered or processed, so you never know.
 
The reason people aren't responding is because they don'/can't know the answer. We weren't there and we aren't you, so we have less of a decent take on this than you do.

As I said in the other thread, if you're concerned go to accident & emergency and tell them what happened, and ask them to check you out. We can not ID what happened to you the other day from a couple of posts on the internet.

I'm going to merge this with your other thread, but I'll leave it here for a bit.
 
ok, thanks. i thought as the thread got longer it might discourage new people from reading, sorry to overdo it. no sweat, i'm honestly fine. d
 
I've merged the posts.

sorry to overdo it. no sweat, i'm honestly fine. d

Why don't you just go and get checked out? Genuine question.

Either you're massively worrying about being ill when you weren't (anxiety/paranoia), and you had an experience which reflects this... which probably needs addressing. Or you were actually ill. Either way, it would pay to know for certain, even just for certainty of mind.
 
Thanks, I appreciate the concern. I'm not massively worried, just looking, perhaps too hard, for ideas or suggestions. I don't know the medical side very well but have my doubts about what could be discerned after the fact and not crazy about going to a hospital or doctor unless there's a real need. Peace, out.
 
...........still the bulk of it was beneath the surface I'm sure, basically to hot to handle, so can imagine something related to that could have been percolating. I'm not feelin' it, really, but it does seem possible.......

It sounds like you have been/are still very traumatised by the events from your past. The fact you say you're not feeling it makes me ask the question, "how could you not be feeling it?" Unless of course the suppression/repression is periodically solid. If that's the case I might imagine that (and you allude to it above) the underlying material is pretty big and raw, and if vying for release/expression on the back of an experience which is characterised by emotional boundary softening, could be physically and psychically very extreme. But often temporary if worked through.

But who knows? Could be lots of things coming together in a way that generates deep dysphoria.
 
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