Lysergamides LSD Preservative?

[phuckingnutz]

Yeah, it'd suck to find out, too late, that you were wrong. Then again....?

 

[porkstock]

foreigner, i'm curious if you've tried psychedelics other than LSD. specifically 2ce, as i have slight suspicions that it caused me some long term stomach issues.
i haven't been diagnosed with anything, i tend to have irritable bowels when i shit in the morning, painful gas, upset stomach feeling sometimes. but for all i know it could be something in my diet, or my genes.

my guess is that your hypothesis with serotonin receptors in the gut and in microglia is more feasible than lsd preservative causing an issue. just my guess. i hope your health improves!

 

[Foreigner]

foreigner, i'm curious if you've tried psychedelics other than LSD. specifically 2ce, as i have slight suspicions that it caused me some long term stomach issues.
i haven't been diagnosed with anything, i tend to have irritable bowels when i shit in the morning, painful gas, upset stomach feeling sometimes. but for all i know it could be something in my diet, or my genes.

my guess is that your hypothesis with serotonin receptors in the gut and in microglia is more feasible than lsd preservative causing an issue. just my guess. i hope your health improves!

Regardless if my theory is right, I know from the highs that psychedelics in general have a profound effect on the gut. The gut manufactures most of the body's neurochemicals through the bacteria. I think when the body burden for neurotransmitters is increased by psychs, it places a burden on the gut. There's also the microglia connection as the bridge between nervous system and immune system. If that's over-stimulated then you may get more food sensitivities, etc.

The gut is the second brain... it has the second most dense region of neural connections in the body. How can it not be affected?

My theory is that heavy psych use, especially psychs that have broad action like LSD, can change the sensitivity level of the gut.

Never done 2ce. The psychs I've tried are LSD, shrooms, DMT, 2CI (by accident, it was hell), mescaline, and ketamine.

 

[phuckingnutz]

Yeah, I have wondered for some time about that^ for the same reasons.

 

[Solipsis]

Psychedelics can activate the immune system yes, which just like is the case with medicinal mushrooms is not something you'd want to happen with an auto-immune condition. (Normally people can use an immune boost from medicinal mushrooms, but with auto-immune that's fuel on the fire)

IMO it doesn't necessarily matter so much that there are so many neurons in your guts in terms of direct effects, apart from how many actual serotonergic (5-HT3) receptors there are present. But indirectly, sure there are relationships between your gut microbiome and your mental state etc... and other organs have mini nervous systems too.
AFAIK, 5-HT3 is not one of the receptors which LSD gets stuck in in an activated conformation, those are 5-HT2A and 2B i believe.

In any case, despite some connections which are hard to approach in anything but holistic terms... I don't think there are such strong grounds to believe that frequent use of LSD directly causes disease like you are considering. Gut-centered anxiety seems to have more to do with how far anxiety is pressured up and down in your body. Tension on your stomach muscles, tension in your chest and breathing etc... many things together contribute to some apparent tug of war sort of effects which focus the center of your anxieties and other energetic sensations.
There are a lot of apparent connections but it's important to keep cause and effect clear in your rationales.

I think during the comeup of psychedelics, depending on how stimulating they are, you are kind of overwhelmed by the upramp in effects and lag behind in coping. Later you catch up usually. I don't really see how that causes gut / auto-immune disease. That's not to say these things can't play a role and have *some* influence. But there are so many other possible factors to consider, like diet and supplements / medications etc and many more.

It definitely feels like serotonergic transmission mediates some sorts of neuroendocrine flow in the body, once awakened you can get all sorts of flows some of which frustrate and others relieve. I don't really buy into anything like a "burden" but it does contact something which arguably can be very tricky without proper experience using yogic practices or meditation and even then it's like you cheat yourself into expert mode.

The only thing I can say is that it appears that some of these circuits, once awakened, can be hard to ease or shutdown again (and this might be one of many possible instances where people could consider whether it is right to try and fix problems which seem to arise from psychedelic use, by taking even more psychedelics)... if it's one thing people apparently get from tripping is more sensitive.

We can infer from what some extremely trained people can do with their bodies and minds (all kinds of things, and I am not talking paranormal) that there is a lot to be 'activated', but everything activated could potentially overload more. I am not saying that some physiological circuits are dormant but rather that we may become more aware that they are there and it can take things off auto-pilot. Taking the wrong things off auto-pilot seems often seems like a curse to me, even if it has a positive side.

Another thing is that the brain is wired into the immune system pretty directly - some connections go very directly and are not cordoned off, i think in the lower brain? Not sure.. However this can explain why our mentality can have influence on our health and healing... many kinds of healing are immune-mediated, somethiing which we again can see from medicinal mushrooms which exert all kinds of health effects through the immune system.

About the gut manufacturing neurotransmitters: maybe you could shine a light on that a bit, but if you mean that gut flora help extract nutrients including those which serve as precursors to neurotransmitters, that doesn't mean it is one of the ways levels of those neurotransmitters are actually influenced? I've never known availability of one precursor to really affect levels like that for example.
Also I would find it one hell of a surprise if ingested psychedelics actually had a direct effect on the gut flora like that, and a very heavy one, coincidentally even though there are *countless* other compounds passing through. Seems like interactions would be more indirect than that. Or if 5-HT3 mediated, it would be interesting to know if chronic 5-HT3 activation is harmful because of downstream effects on for example endocrine systems.

An example of something which has much more direct devastating effect is higher dosage alcohol, because it can make the gut permeable to bacteria which produce toxins. This can make your body really sore and contributes to a big part of hangover, it also causes the body to act inflamed.

For LSD, it doesn't seem like there could really be enough in a dose to cause direct effects in the body like that.

If there is a connection between auto-immune conditions and psychedelics, the first thing I would personally suspect is that link in the lower brain, some kind of hyperactivity from the brain itself causing other hyperactivity in the connected adjacent immune centers.

 

[sekio]

LSD is easily differentiated from NBOMe/DOx by checking if it's fluorescent under both short- and long-wave UV light. LSD glows bright blue, other compounds don't.

Presumably the bitter taste is the inks on the blotter. I've confirmed that it does happen with authentic LSD. I don't think any sort of "preservatives" are used.

 

[Solipsis]

I don't think any sort of "preservatives" are used.

I don't either.
Just curious, what do you suppose soapy tastes are? Unfortunately I can't say if I have tasted this on WoW / unprinted blotter paper as well. Did they use windex to lay the hits? (loljk)
I found no association between such soapy or bitter tastes and quality (i.e. potency) of acid. To my knowledge I have never accidentally taken an NBOMe or DOx; there is a tiny chance I have had LSB - it matched the batch supposedly. Incidentally that was soapy too..

@ Foreigner: be strong bro you can contact me anytime any way except fb preferably

 

[phuckingnutz]

LSD is easily differentiated from NBOMe/DOx by checking if it's fluorescent under both short- and long-wave UV light. LSD glows bright blue, other compounds don't.

Presumably the bitter taste is the inks on the blotter. I've confirmed that it does happen with authentic LSD. I don't think any sort of "preservatives" are used.

I have read that an acidic medium will retard the breakdown of LSD though. Would I need something like that for a 10-15 year storage or will ethanol, dark & cold suffice?

 

[Foreigner]

Psychedelics can activate the immune system yes, which just like is the case with medicinal mushrooms is not something you'd want to happen with an auto-immune condition. (Normally people can use an immune boost from medicinal mushrooms, but with auto-immune that's fuel on the fire)

IMO it doesn't necessarily matter so much that there are so many neurons in your guts in terms of direct effects, apart from how many actual serotonergic (5-HT3) receptors there are present. But indirectly, sure there are relationships between your gut microbiome and your mental state etc... and other organs have mini nervous systems too.
AFAIK, 5-HT3 is not one of the receptors which LSD gets stuck in in an activated conformation, those are 5-HT2A and 2B i believe.

In any case, despite some connections which are hard to approach in anything but holistic terms... I don't think there are such strong grounds to believe that frequent use of LSD directly causes disease like you are considering. Gut-centered anxiety seems to have more to do with how far anxiety is pressured up and down in your body. Tension on your stomach muscles, tension in your chest and breathing etc... many things together contribute to some apparent tug of war sort of effects which focus the center of your anxieties and other energetic sensations.
There are a lot of apparent connections but it's important to keep cause and effect clear in your rationales.

I think during the comeup of psychedelics, depending on how stimulating they are, you are kind of overwhelmed by the upramp in effects and lag behind in coping. Later you catch up usually. I don't really see how that causes gut / auto-immune disease. That's not to say these things can't play a role and have *some* influence. But there are so many other possible factors to consider, like diet and supplements / medications etc and many more.

It definitely feels like serotonergic transmission mediates some sorts of neuroendocrine flow in the body, once awakened you can get all sorts of flows some of which frustrate and others relieve. I don't really buy into anything like a "burden" but it does contact something which arguably can be very tricky without proper experience using yogic practices or meditation and even then it's like you cheat yourself into expert mode.

The only thing I can say is that it appears that some of these circuits, once awakened, can be hard to ease or shutdown again (and this might be one of many possible instances where people could consider whether it is right to try and fix problems which seem to arise from psychedelic use, by taking even more psychedelics)... if it's one thing people apparently get from tripping is more sensitive.

We can infer from what some extremely trained people can do with their bodies and minds (all kinds of things, and I am not talking paranormal) that there is a lot to be 'activated', but everything activated could potentially overload more. I am not saying that some physiological circuits are dormant but rather that we may become more aware that they are there and it can take things off auto-pilot. Taking the wrong things off auto-pilot seems often seems like a curse to me, even if it has a positive side.

Another thing is that the brain is wired into the immune system pretty directly - some connections go very directly and are not cordoned off, i think in the lower brain? Not sure.. However this can explain why our mentality can have influence on our health and healing... many kinds of healing are immune-mediated, somethiing which we again can see from medicinal mushrooms which exert all kinds of health effects through the immune system.

About the gut manufacturing neurotransmitters: maybe you could shine a light on that a bit, but if you mean that gut flora help extract nutrients including those which serve as precursors to neurotransmitters, that doesn't mean it is one of the ways levels of those neurotransmitters are actually influenced? I've never known availability of one precursor to really affect levels like that for example.
Also I would find it one hell of a surprise if ingested psychedelics actually had a direct effect on the gut flora like that, and a very heavy one, coincidentally even though there are *countless* other compounds passing through. Seems like interactions would be more indirect than that. Or if 5-HT3 mediated, it would be interesting to know if chronic 5-HT3 activation is harmful because of downstream effects on for example endocrine systems.

An example of something which has much more direct devastating effect is higher dosage alcohol, because it can make the gut permeable to bacteria which produce toxins. This can make your body really sore and contributes to a big part of hangover, it also causes the body to act inflamed.

For LSD, it doesn't seem like there could really be enough in a dose to cause direct effects in the body like that.

If there is a connection between auto-immune conditions and psychedelics, the first thing I would personally suspect is that link in the lower brain, some kind of hyperactivity from the brain itself causing other hyperactivity in the connected adjacent immune centers.

Great post, thank you!!

 

[phuckingnutz]

Chemist, thank you for the input and I , too, have read/heard that sols degrade more quickly, but i didn't have a lot of options. 50mg is a tiny amount of product and it is so powerful that any powder lost is potentially a big deal. So, I stuck the entire paper in 25ml of EtOH and then stuck that in the freezer so I think I am ok. I put 2 drops on m,y tongue before I stored it though and it was one the strongest trips I've experienced in some time.
I mean, even if I ended up losing some potency it will still be some seriously good shit.
I am committed to this plan though since it is difficult to handle even in its present strength, at least for me it is.
I did, however, dilute some down tenfold for microdosing and that is what is available to me at this time so thank you for the info and I may consider putting some of the sol on blotter paper for comparison.

 

[phuckingnutz]

No problem

I understand. You don't have many options. I wonder at times if I'd be better off dropping it out for dry storage. Maybe 50/50? I tend to just use sugar cubes stored the same way and they've maintained potency for a year (longest they were around).

I too want to keep it around for personal use for the rest of my life if possible. It would be very sad for it to become inactive. Sounds like you've got a solid plan.

Well, it's a plan, but its solidity will be determined in time.
I also want this to last for at least 20-30 years. I'm 58 and I never get rid of any, so 30-40 years is pretty much life for me.
I may grab another little bit of powder and keep it that way until/if the day comes I need it I'll have it.
Then again in 20 years it may be legal...yeah, right.

 

[PsychaStevic]

here is a tiny chance I have had LSB - it matched the batch supposedly. Incidentally that was soapy too..

Care to exaggerate on how you thought the substance was LSB? Not doubting you, just this is actually a new substance to me and I'm interested

 

[Foreigner]

I'm resurrecting this thread because I finally have some concrete answers to my question.

To review... I have intuitively felt that somehow my years of high dose LSD might've somehow triggered my inflammatory bowel disease. LSD is a serotonin analogue and 5HT agonist. My IBD also came on after an unhealthy relationship with a partner whom I regularly did MDMA with.

In my research, I came across this singular case study:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51240027_Amino_acid-responsive_Crohn's_disease_A_case_study

To sum it up, in this very limited and obscure study, the researchers postulated that IBD may be caused by a localized serotonin syndrome in the bowel as a result of insufficient dopamine in the body. The imbalance is caused by a mutation in the gene OCT. Serotonin is upregulated to compensate for low dopamine in these individuals. When they introduced a new ratio of serotonin and dopamine precursors to the body (like tyrosine and L-dopa), the patient went into remission. This patient was a severe case with no hope in sight. Although the study also employed serotonin precursors, the lion's share of the amino acid administration related to dopamine production.

Over the summer I had my methylation genetics done and I have a COMT (+/-) mutation, which in my SNP means that my body breaks down dopamine faster than average. It is more easily expended. This means that automatically, from the get go, I have less dopamine available. This isn't the only genetic factor of concern but it's the one I focused on in my self-study.

So I started experimenting by just taking L-tyrsoine. First at 500mg first thing in the morning, then 500mg 2x daily, then 1000mg in the morning, then 1000mg 2x daily. Then I introduced l-dopa in the form of macuna puriens. My disease has significantly downgraded to the point that I am 90% functional again.

I don't claim that I've cured my IBD, but the results are hard to deny. I was also having other secondary symptoms like... pleasure caused me exhaustion, especially sexual pleasure. Then I realized that prolactin, which is released in men after orgasm, is also known as dopamine-antagonizing hormone. When I supported dopamine, the prolactin hit of sexual pleasure was no longer debilitating. I also feel less depressed.

I don't recommend people replicate this protocol unless they somehow factually know their dopamine needs supporting... like through genetic testing. If you already did 23andme then you can plug your data into Nutrahacker or Genetic Genie, or another free site. They will tell you your methylation and detox SNPs and where support is needed.