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Hawaii to be an opiate free state!?

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Max Flight

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Jan 23, 2018
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Well this is unbelievable! I went to the doctor, and he starts in right away talking about how he's starting to wean all his patients off of opioid meds. And tells me that Hawaii is aiming to be an opioid free state. The only state that's doing this.

And I was like....what? That's ridiculous. I told him kinda jokingly that then I guess my only other option is euthanasia. And he tells me that actually, my only option is to move to another state! WTF?

This is madness!
 
Hes lying. I guess you have major surgery without fentanyl anethesia and pills after you wake up?

If you get hit by a car and the ambulance picks you up they give you an aspirin?

Hawaii may not be opiate free but your doctor certainly aims to be thus I would source illegal pills while you promptly find a new doctor
 
I am doing some research on this, because it sounded ridiculous to me. The doctor said that it goes into effect in July. I spoke with the pharmacist, and was told that they weren't aware of this. However, they are setting a limit at 200mg of morphine (or morphine equivalent of, if it's a different medication) per day. And it's the health insurance companies that are doing it to people. But that there are exceptions, because some people are far above the limit, and have been for a long time.

I mean seriously, the whole thing sounded ridiculous to me...fuckin move to a different state. I'm looking into this situation, and I am calling my insurance provider, to speak with my "advocate", and see what I can find out. I have talked to a few others I know who are chronic pain sufferers, and they have all been told something similar, and the doctors are indeed cutting people back. I am not sure what is going on, but something is definitely going on. I am going to continue to try and find out what is the actual situation. Because after getting the news from the doctor, speaking with the pharmacist, and talking to a few different people, I am really confused as to what is going on.

There is definitely a shortage right now, and it's been on the radio (I don't have tv. By choice) that the hospitals and EMTs are dangerously low on many medications. Although it's supposed to be related to manufacturing issues originating in Puerto Rico. Because of the hurricane damage. Which is really strange, because that was a while back. So, there's definitely some strange goings-on. I am going to try and figure out WTF is the actual case regarding this issue.
 
IMHO This is another case of the minority dictating terms for the majority. Plain and simple! Most chronic pain patients under the care of certified pain management specialists do not abuse their medication. By that I mean, they don't supplement it with illegal drugs on the side. And they take the quantity they're prescribed. Not to say they may not run out early sometimes due to an uptick in pain a particular month but basically they "play by the rules".

These individuals count on that medication to attempt to live a somewhat normal life. Unlike the minority who only take the drugs to get high (at some point it may only be to get "normal" due to the drugs or money availability). And then for whatever reason end up OD'ing and becoming one of the many statistics we read about everyday. Why in the hell does this group (who clearly does NOT play by the rules) deserve to call the shots for the group that painstakingly (pun intended) follows all the rules their pain management doctors dictate. Trudges out every month to the pharmacy, often to find out they don't have the meds they need in stock. I mean it's not always easy living this life but it's what needs to be done to survive as best we can day by day.

I realize our MaMa's told us life isn't fair and clearly it's not in this case, but this really SUCKS! My Dad is 81 years old, can barely walk from scoliosis (a curvature of the spine) where his spine turns every bit of 30+ degrees to the right. It's actually painful to watch him try to walk with his walker. This man isn't even on super high levels of pain medication and he is in fear of them pulling the rug out from under him. That is downright criminal IMO. I really wish something could be done and I really wish those obtaining these drugs illegally would all of a sudden start being somewhat responsible for crying out loud. A lot less fatalities would go a long way in helping folks like my father and at the same time would keep themselves on this planet and around a little bit longer. Wouldn't that be a beautiful thing!

Anyway, thanks for letting me "ramble on"!
 
The problem is with the government keeping these draconian laws against drug users for the sake of fear and misunderstanding. I agree the people ODing due to excessive use bear some responsibility but they are victims too and if people could just get over their fear of legal and regulated drugs the world would probably run a lot smoother.
 
I am in full agreement with both of what you are saying. This current situation is just ridiculous. And in regards to beach bums concern for his dad, it's very real.

I had to see a different doctor a few visits back because my doctor was on vacation. And we had a discussion. She had just come from Oregon I think. And was telling me that they have stopped giving people opiates and benzos in combination....as they found this to be the link to addiction. So, even people in their 80s who have been taking these medications in combination for 30 years, were forced to decide between one or the other. Just can't have both.

Well, I tried to point out what a demented injustice this was. I mean seriously, if you have a person who is elderly and been taking these medications for 30 years, with no problems being caused in their lives (i.e. haven't gone off the rails and become "drug fiends) what sense does it make to punish these innocent people, because of the self destructive tendencies of others....who in many cases aren't even prescribed these medications. It's absolutely criminal malpractice in my opinion. And makes no sense to actually correct the problem in that manner. This highly educated doctor, just blinked a couple times, and repeated her comments about the link to addiction. It's like talking to a fuckin robot. Many of these doctor's are book smart, but seem to lack general common sense. Almost baffling to me. This whole system is fucked in so many ways. The stance on drugs just one of the issues. And I doubt that Trump is going to help the matter. The guy is obviously a couple sandwiches shy of a picnic.
 
Yes, more doctors are incredibly uneducated and un-real world smart to boot when it comes to the subject of pain. I've been told it's basically not taught in med school and if it is, its a blip on the radar. So, they get their knowledge from older, even.less informed doctors who've had years to accumulate their own misinformation. Other than that, they pick things up the same way most folks do, the oversensationalized nightly news. It's an absolute bloody shame and it would be OK if I didn't care so damn much but this shit hits waaaay too close to home!
 
^ i think most doctors actually do empathize with pain patients, and would happily give them opiates to ease their suffering....But they also are trying to avoid the DEA destroying their entire life and careers, w hich takes priority to them over easing patients suffering. What I'm worried about is that they (doctors) don't seem to be doing anything to battle this problem.

Lets remember who the real enemy is here.



What I've found to work best for getting mid level stuff like hydrocodone or percs, is find a doctor (general practictioner, not Pain specialist) that is old as fuck. Mine is 85 years old. They don't care about losing their medical license at this point and just want more patients/money, so they prescribe the stuff for you if its warrented.

These old doctors suck though as far as knowing about medicine, but good luck getting a 35 year old doctor to prescribe anything even though they are probably the most qualified to treat your conditions.
 
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It's funny you say that about old docs LSD. When I met my wife about 12-13 years ago, she lived a good ways from my old place (along with most of my docs), so after I moved in with her she suggested I go see her GP in town. When I went there I had to fill out a shit load of forms and of course, one of those was to list all my prescriptions. So at the end of the appointment, out of the blue he hands me like 4-5 scripts for ALL my meds I wrote down, HBP meds to my Oxycontin 80 mg (90 a month) script. Blew me away! BTW, he was ancient, but I have no idea exactly how old. Definitely over 80 though.

Due to my insurance and my pain doc at the time, to get the script filled I had to travel a little ways and pay cash. Luckily that wasn't a problem back then even though the script was close to -some money-. But it was certainly nice having that stash of extra.meds! However, I did end up switching to a much younger doc at a rather large practice in town. All in all, a good move in many ways. Thanks for stiring that memory up.

I just realized that my responses have drifted a bit from the original post. I apologize.
 
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That's OK BB.....Most people here are on drugs of some sort or another. Drifting a bit is expected I would think.

As for the Doctors, I would say that LSD is partially correct. However, there are some doctors that are straight up dumb fucks! To real world issues. Some seemto just be downright malicious. As another example of questionable medical care....about 10 years ago, when I was just taking a couple of norcos a day, I got stuck in Seattle for a few months longer than expected. And I went to this clinic that was affordable to see a doctor.

I was prudent, and had my doctor here fax over some things to their office. My MRI results, medication list, etc. My doctor even wrote a little message saying that I had been a long time pain med user (5 years then) and was very responsible with my medication, and so forth. However, when the doctor came in she was anything but helpful or friendly. Almost the first words out of her mouth were "I don't prescribe opiates or benzodiazaprene medication to anyone." And I ended up leaving with nothing but the ire of the doctor, because I verbally gave it to her with both barrels! I asked her how she was able to practice medicine from that stance?As ininvariably there would be patients that would require one of those medications at some point. But this particular doctor was completely unrealistic and unreasonable. There are indeed, quite a few quacks out there.
 
They're actually not putting any kind of "limit" on Opioid prescribing in a sense that they could feasibly take all patients off of them. That will never happen so long as Opioids exist. They are medications that mitigate human suffering in a way that nothing else can when used properly.

I can only speak for where I live, but the 200mg Morphine Equivalency only implies that a prescriber cannot begin a regimen of Opioid treatment, fresh, in a dosage that exceeds this before exhausting other options. It's like a prior authorization for an expensive drug. They're not going to tell prescribers what they can and can't do, but given the current climate, it's going to be clearer much more quickly who is prescribing at a rate that constitutes a severe statistical outlier.

This ain't happening and I would wager that this same rule is what your state is adopting. The DEA is closely involved with this sort of shit, so it would not be surprising for the rule to be instituted simultaneously in a Federal manner.

Doctors saying and doing stupid and reckless shit like spreading such blatant misinformation is part of what started this epidemic that we find ourselves in. Jesus.
 
Max Flight said:
That's OK BB.....Most people here are on drugs of some sort or another. Drifting a bit is expected I would think.

As for the Doctors, I would say that LSD is partially correct. However, there are some doctors that are straight up dumb fucks! To real world issues. Some seemto just be downright malicious. As another example of questionable medical care....about 10 years ago, when I was just taking a couple of norcos a day, I got stuck in Seattle for a few months longer than expected. And I went to this clinic that was affordable to see a doctor.

I was prudent, and had my doctor here fax over some things to their office. My MRI results, medication list, etc. My doctor even wrote a little message saying that I had been a long time pain med user (5 years then) and was very responsible with my medication, and so forth. However, when the doctor came in she was anything but helpful or friendly. Almost the first words out of her mouth were "I don't prescribe opiates or benzodiazaprene medication to anyone." And I ended up leaving with nothing but the ire of the doctor, because I verbally gave it to her with both barrels! I asked her how she was able to practice medicine from that stance?As ininvariably there would be patients that would require one of those medications at some point. But this particular doctor was completely unrealistic and unreasonable. There are indeed, quite a few quacks out there.
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i have encountered both docs and pharmacists that totally refuse to prescribe or dispense opioids. I'm not sure how this is legal but it is. They just don't even want to take the remote risk that someone ODs and they get sued.
 
I went in for surgery the other day. I told the doc I used to be addicted to fentanyl, and I was concerned about having it again would cause cravings. He didn't seem to care and gave it to me anyway with some midazolam. The combo was supposed to put me to sleep. It DID NOT! I was awake the whole time. I guess my tolerance stopped the medications from working. It was pretty unpleasant. Anyway... I cant remember how this was supposed to relate.
 
That does sound like it would suck. I would think that the anastasia doc's are supposed to kinda stick around to make sure that you have the right amount to put you out. Maybe the guy was a zealot, and thought " I'm going to teach this drug addict a lesson." IDK, but that does sound like an unpleasant experience. I hope that you didn't experience a lot of pain?
 
^i had back surgery while awake on the same combo. I was meant to stay away so that I could communicate with the doctor as he stimulated certain nerve roots. when he would touch a nerve with his tools i felt some pain but not too bad. I barely remember most of the surgery though.
 
So, I researched the subject. Talked to the pharmacist etc, and they are imposing limits to an extent. Many people I know have been either cut off, or cut way back. Anyway, I told the doctor I had looked into it, and as I am legally disabled, and have been taking pain meds for 15 years now, I am exempt from some of the restrictions being imposed. And there's nothing saying that I have to be cut off.

So, he looks something up on his computer, and then goes on to tell me that now only a 7 day supply of diazepam is allowed, etc. I was kinda stunned because I have been taking valium for 10 years now, 10 mg a day. I mentioned that to the doctor and said that I knew that I am to be tapered down on benzos, not just cut off. He said that I will be fine, coming off that amount won't be an issue. WRONG!

I haven't slept for 4 days now, and I just took the last of my valium. Been trying to taper down...but feeling like shit. And it's making me take more of my pain medication in an attempt at feeling better. I am thinking that my doctor is just being a dick for some reason, and it's really a difficult situation. My anxiety is off the charts. This really sucks!
 
^ I?m sorry to hear that Max. Maybe your doctor just doesn?t know that benzos can cause life threatening withdrawals, if i were you i would go in and let him see the kind of condition you are in. I hope you can at least get some gabapentin or something. Good luck
 
He's is taking pleasure in making you withdrawal. Benzs are schedule 4...nobody including the DEA cares about them.

He's doing it simply because he doesn't like people that take drugs that are somewhat recreational
 
I found the bill that your doctor might have been talking about and it does actually cover C4 substances for some insane reason. Your doc sounds like a real piece of work though.
 
Yes, I found it too. HB - 505 I think. Although there are exemptions. And I easily meet the criteria. It's just that my doctor is being a kook. I actually went out and picked up a few Xanax bars. What a fuckin relief! But the ordeal has caused me to slightly overdue my pain medication, in a futile attempt to feel better. So doing the kratom Kick. And saving my last tab for my appointment in a few days.

Which is not an easy task. And takes almost monk like discipline. Yeah, for whatever reason, they are really tightening the screws here. And mostly on innocent people. Somehow, those who don't really need it, seem to be holding. And for ridiculous prices.
 
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