What makes a psychedelic drug powerful?

[cj187]

I'm curious about people's opinions on what makes them consider one psychedelic to be more powerful than another. People often talk about headspace as if it's a linear scale ranging from clear-headed to intensely psychedelic, but it really isn't that simple. In fact, the ones considered to be the most powerful, such as DMT, are often described as being very mentally clear. There are many different aspects of the psychedelic experience, and different drugs emphasize different aspects.

If someone asked me what the strongest drug I've taken is, I would probably say DPT. However, in a sense, I think LSD could be considered just as strong or stronger, in that it can be so deep and complex while remaining lucid and grounded in reality.

The intensity of a trip depends just as much on the dose taken as the substance used. When talking about MPT, I said it was less powerful than DMT, and someone asked if it could be as strong with a higher dose. I don't know the answer to that question. It does feel weaker, but maybe I just didn't take enough. I would think most psychedelics can get petty crazy if you take a high enough dose.

Of course there are limiting factors like body load, anxiety, blackouts, and psychosis. At first, 2C-I felt very simple and shallow to me. On a high dose, it changed in nature and became very mushroom-like. The body load was absolutely awful though, and even felt physically dangerous. Are the "weak" psychedelics just the one's that have too many side effects when you take enough to trip really hard?

I'd like to hear from people who have taken very high doses of mushrooms or LSD. Can they take you to the same kind of place as a DMT or DPT breakthrough? I've read trip reports that make it sound that way.

So what is it that makes certain psychedelics intense in your opinion? The clarity of the headspace? The ratio of mental effects to body load? The ability to make you think about certain things? Is it just an indescribable feeling?

 

[OntarioGuy]

For me, it has to do with the level of spiritual oneness I feel. (Whether it's genuine or chemically induced is up for debate.
I personally look for transcendence, and for me, lysergamides like lsd and ETH lad most reliably create this effect.

The Tryptamines I obviously consider powerful, but for me are much more "vision oriented"

I have 250 mgs of DPT Hcl I got just today, I want to try it, but am I bit intimidated by some of the reports. And that's saying something for me

 

[pupnik]

I think at strong doses all provide something which is like "everything is happening all at once" or time seems to stop while experiences continue and chorus together seemingly forever.

at lesser doses each has an unique emphasis, eg . ald52 is particularly laid back and equanimitous, while 1p is tweaky, etc.
they have slightly different affinities to the variously positioned 5ht receptors, so each turns on a specific part of the brain more than the others. but once the effect gets heavy they all converge in nature to timelessness

even after time stops rolling along, or everything starts happening at once, chorusing on and on, each unique psychedelic voice continues to sing as well, ant that colors the trip experience.

 

[Crashing]

Powerfulness in psychedelics is measured by how they react when taken haphazardly, at very inappropriate times.

DMT takes the cake, because if you smoke this stuff while on a meth binge for example, you will regret it eternally. This is a type of power we cannot conceive of. Whereas 25i-nbome for example could be dosed in pretty much any scenario and have the same exact effects, which for me is a weak psychedelic on a spiritual level, but an incredibly strong drug on a drug-level.

 

[tacodude]

The person taking it and whether or not they are physically, mentally, and spiritually prepared for the experience

 

[vegan]

"How much the experience changes you" could be a criterion.
If for example you come back with a different idea of what "reality" is, then the experience was much more than a roller-coaster ride.

As OntarioGuy proposed, making you feel oneness definitely gives a psychedelic an honorary degree. And as a subjective personal opinion, I indeed see it as a requirement to label a psychedelic as "one of the most powerful".
Shulgin's definition of +4s seems very appropriate. The most powerful psychedelics are definitely those that bring you a +4.

However, that still leaves us all the extremely powerful and life-changing experiences that fall short of a +4.
"How disconnected from reality you were" or "How much it made you reconsider what you thought was true" can be criteria, as well as "how much your ego was diminished". But "how much of a mindfuck it was" is another totally acceptable criterion; it really depends on each person's attitude towards drugs.

I'd like to hear from people who have taken very high doses of mushrooms or LSD. Can they take you to the same kind of place as a DMT or DPT breakthrough?

At a very high dose, mushrooms become quite similar to a full ayahuasca experience.

 

[Volsam]

^^^ vegan summed it up nicely!

At a very high dose of mushrooms, I black out into some kind of void with lots of auditory hallucinations, a lot of times very similar to ayahuasca and pharmahuasca.
At a very high dose of LSD I felt bodiless, absolutely weightless, could not see the world around me at all and would have to have a music on or I would get sucked into the void again, with LSD it feels like multi-colored kaleidoscopic one though.
Neither times it felt like a DMT breakthrough, but maybe because the peak happens over a few hours, not over a few minutes.
I really enjoyed smoking DMT on a 300mcg of LSD - heavy, thick, GOD-like head space, powerful combo!

Now that I think about it, if I would start having consistent auditory hallucinations after taking a substance, that means I'm pretty deep into the psychedelic forest.