clean but always questioning

[geraggh34]

so i'm 24 years old and early November i got sent to the hospital and had heart endocarditis along with quite a few other things. I had heart surgery and got a valve replaced and a microvalve repaired. I also had a blood clot in an artery in my leg my spleen taken out and fluid taken out of my longs a couple of times. I have been addicted to opiates/benzos on and off for 8 years and was shooting a lot of speed and h right before i went into the hospital.

Anyways, i was in an induced coma for 14 days and then took norcos and whatever other IV pain meds i was in in the hospital. I got out in January and quit taking the pain medicine and now have been completely sober for about a month. Now my desire to get back on h and meth has went down a lot since i dealt with all of this and i have a bit more motivation to stay alive, my family has been really great through everything.

The truth is that i honestly want to get back on suboxone maintenence. My family would disagree to tell the truth, and i cannot really explain the reasons for it except selfish ones and not having the temptation to use heroin. Part of me feels like it's the wrong decision and guilty for even thinking about it, but then again i know my family doesn't understand. To be 100% honest i also would like to quit taking antidepressants (i'm told i have to keep taking it by my doctor after surgery) and seroquel for anxiety.

Also i know i need to just talk to someone, and this is wierd for me to hear myself saying this but the anxiety and overwhelming amount of emotions i feel on a regular basis sometimes feel like too much. I know this is just PAWS and sorry for rambling, but i have no one else to talk to about these things.

 

[jdfisse]

Thank you for sharing a small piece of your story.

There was a great deal of pain during the first 36 years of my life. Much of that pain was self-induced. That pain was valueless, only serving as a tool to dig a deeper hole. Then I found a way for that pain to have enduring and nearly priceless value. 1. I had to distance myself from the pain through abstinence and a rigorous focus on self-improvement with the help of others. This dramatically increased the pain's value. Then, 2. I had to become willing to share that pain with others, thus freeing myself and inspiring others who were suffering similar torment. I found that priceless gift in a 12-step program. You may find it somewhere else.

We each have a beautiful and powerful story just waiting to be unlocked and shared. Every day that you distance yourself from the pain it grows in value. Thank you again for sharing a piece of yourself.

 

[Someone Who Is Me]

This is a great place if you need to talk. It?s come through for me multiple times when I?ve had nobody else to talk to. I have anxiety too, and I know how much it sucks. Why is it that you want to go off your anxiety and depression meds? Are they helping you at all? If your anxiety is bad, maybe trying a different anti-anxiety medication, versus stopping them all together, would help? Sometimes it takes a lot of experimentation before you find the right psychiatric meds for you personally. Everyone reacts to each one so differently. Something that helps one person?s depression or anxiety a ton could do nothing at all for someone else?s. Psychiatric meds are notoriously unpredictable.

Do you see any sort of counselor or therapist? They?re a great complement to medication. Medication alone wouldn?t help me, that?s for damn sure.

I?m taking suboxone right now and find it pretty helpful for heroin cravings, although not as helpful as it used to be. It knocked them out this most recent time I went to detox, but seems like it?s faded with time. Maybe that?s just my imagination. Why do you think wanting relief from heroin cravings is a selfish motive for taking subs? Heroin cravings are fucking brutal. Sounds like you have a totally legit reason for wanting them. Sucks your family doesn?t want you on them, but you are 24. Are you financially dependent on your family, or do you have the option of just starting up with the subs and not telling them?

Hang in there, friend!

 

[Jabberwocky]

so i'm 24 years old and early November i got sent to the hospital and had heart endocarditis along with quite a few other things. I had heart surgery and got a valve replaced and a microvalve repaired. I also had a blood clot in an artery in my leg my spleen taken out and fluid taken out of my longs a couple of times. I have been addicted to opiates/benzos on and off for 8 years and was shooting a lot of speed and h right before i went into the hospital.

Anyways, i was in an induced coma for 14 days and then took norcos and whatever other IV pain meds i was in in the hospital. I got out in January and quit taking the pain medicine and now have been completely sober for about a month. Now my desire to get back on h and meth has went down a lot since i dealt with all of this and i have a bit more motivation to stay alive, my family has been really great through everything.

The truth is that i honestly want to get back on suboxone maintenence. My family would disagree to tell the truth, and i cannot really explain the reasons for it except selfish ones and not having the temptation to use heroin. Part of me feels like it's the wrong decision and guilty for even thinking about it, but then again i know my family doesn't understand. To be 100% honest i also would like to quit taking antidepressants (i'm told i have to keep taking it by my doctor after surgery) and seroquel for anxiety.

Also i know i need to just talk to someone, and this is wierd for me to hear myself saying this but the anxiety and overwhelming amount of emotions i feel on a regular basis sometimes feel like too much. I know this is just PAWS and sorry for rambling, but i have no one else to talk to about these things.

I'd be curious to hear more about your reasons OP. Sounds like you're really hard on yourself with this stuff, and it doesn't sound like you family understands.

A good buprenorphine provider will connect you with outpatient support. If you are still on your family's insurance, why not find an IOP buprenorphine program (any opioid use disorder specific IOP program should provide the option of using buprenorphine). There is no reason you should have to disclose to your family what specific treatment you are receiving - the only way they'd know is if they got your meds for you, you signed a release of information allowing your treatment provider to disclose it to them, or you told them yourself.

If you feel like you need more support, I strongly encourage you to seek out some kind of outpatient support. Sounds like you've had a rough time - I mean with surgery who doesn't? Even if you don't get on buprenorphine, professional outpatient support would probably help a lot with the isolation and lack of understanding from your family.

 

[geraggh34]

I'd be curious to hear more about your reasons OP. Sounds like you're really hard on yourself with this stuff, and it doesn't sound like you family understands.

A good buprenorphine provider will connect you with outpatient support. If you are still on your family's insurance, why not find an IOP buprenorphine program (any opioid use disorder specific IOP program should provide the option of using buprenorphine). There is no reason you should have to disclose to your family what specific treatment you are receiving - the only way they'd know is if they got your meds for you, you signed a release of information allowing your treatment provider to disclose it to them, or you told them yourself.

If you feel like you need more support, I strongly encourage you to seek out some kind of outpatient support. Sounds like you've had a rough time - I mean with surgery who doesn't? Even if you don't get on buprenorphine, professional outpatient support would probably help a lot with the isolation and lack of understanding from your family.

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The biggest two things to me are helping with cravings for heroin and even to an extent my cravings for speed as well. It also helps me quite tremendously for anxiety, which has been pretty out of control since i went into the hospital and through all of this. I've been on sub maintenance a couple of long periods of time without using anything else. I know that being on bupe maintenance isn't going to blow another heart valve and kill me, but using speed very well could. For some reason i just feel incredibly guilty because my family doesn't understand or think i have any reason to get back on maintenance so i just naturally feel like it's wrong.

I think i have pretty much decided i will be going back on it once i start back at work when i get my work release form in the mail. I just need to keep telling myself that if i'm not using something that's going to put me back in the hospital then i shouldn't get down on myself. My mother has been amazing through all of this and i felt incredibly guilty for all of it because i was using since i was 16 and lived with her from 21 until now and the only reason she even found out was because i was sent to the ICU. I just don't want to let my family down, but i also want to do what i think is best for myself.

Now i guess i'm going to look for a doc that will take my insurance, it seems very difficult to find any that will but i cannot afford 100$ a week right now with bills right now. I also understand where my family and especially my mother is coming from, they were very very close to burying me, so it's hard not riddle myself with guilt when i'm doing something that in their eyes is setting me back.

Thank you for the input and anyone else that posts in this thread, i really appreciate it. Also, if anyone has any suggestions about clinics in the TN area that take insurance (specifically AETNA, and i hope this isn't against the rules) please do tell.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Have you tried looking through SAMHSA's buprenorphine service provider finder? Here is the search for TN:https://www.samhsa.gov/medication-a...locator?field_bup_physician_us_state_value=TN

From what you just wrote it sounds like you know exactly what you need with the buprenorphine. Hopefully you can find a good IOP program or whatever works best for your needs.

 

[Escape Fantasy]

I've been sober 6 months. Believe me, sometimes it's better to go through those tough times and have those manic episodes without drugs because if you were high on it, it would be a lot worse.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say Escape Fantasy. It sounds like the OP has a number of good reasons to explore some kind of buprenorphine treatment.

 

[Escape Fantasy]

I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say Escape Fantasy. It sounds like the OP has a number of good reasons to explore some kind of buprenorphine treatment.

One drug addiction could lead to cross addiction with others. Believe me, I've seen it happen lots of times. It never works. They relapse.

 

[Someone Who Is Me]

No way, Escape Fantasy. Gotta respectfully disagree. I think suboxone maintenance works wonders. I've made it to six months clean on subs, and I KNOW I wouldn't have been able to do it without them. My cravings for heroin are just too strong unmedicated. Suboxone is pretty non-addictive for recovering heroin addicts. I got high on it years ago before I ever tried heroin, back when I had a hydrocodone-level tolerance, but now even the maximum dose does literally nothing for me euphoria-wise. Suboxone does not cause people to relapse, and being on a maintenance program is not the same as being in active addiction. Quite the opposite. Maintenance programs strongly deter relapses. Suboxone contains Narcan, which means that somebody taking it regularly does not have the option of impulsively relapsing on heroin. That's the other reason I'm such a proponent of it. To get high while on a sub maintenance program, a person would have to plan ahead and stop taking their subs for three days before they'd even be able to feel a heroin high. OP, I second toothpastedog, suboxone may be a great option for you, and it's totally legit that you're looking into it!

 

[Jabberwocky]

One drug addiction could lead to cross addiction with others. Believe me, I've seen it happen lots of times. It never works. They relapse.

This just clarified you don’t understand how opioid use disorder is treated.

 

[Escape Fantasy]

This just clarified you don’t understand how opioid use disorder is treated.

I do know opioid addiction. But if he's self-administering these drugs and buying them illegally then he's going to relapse.

He should be in a treatment center.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I agree that they would be better off getting the medication prescribed by a doctor, and ideally through some kind of comprehensive treatment program (though not necessarily inpatient by any means - that only makes sense under very specific circumstances).

Perhaps you could be a little less deterministic in your posts? It's not like any of us can predict the future.

 

[jdfisse]

I am always inspired when I see someone who is clean/sober and gets really self-righteous. It generally happens sometime between 3 and 6 months, depending on the speed at which they are internalizing the steps. For me, it stemmed from coming to terms that it was actually possible to not only be completely clean, but to experience freedom, joy, happiness... Then I started looking around at all of the people who continued to use and I wanted to shake them, and slap them around. "Just do the bleeping work!" is what I would be thinking and sometimes even saying.

Escape Fantasy, now I just ask, "how free do you want to be?" I am proud of you Escape Fantasy. I welcome another voice of abstinence. It is possible to be abstinent. I have found a freedom that eluded me when I was on maintenance, or full blown active addiction, but nothing anyone said was going to change my experience. I won't believe a word you say until I convince myself of it. If a person does do it on their own and relapses, sometimes it is exactly the pain they need to do something different. There is a tactful way to encourage a person to try something different. It is in giving them hope through sharing my own personal experience. Any hope generated by, "well I knew this one guy who tried such and such..." is a hollow and fleeting hope. When I care and when I share with others my experience of getting to the other side of common pain the ones who are ready to hear it will hear it. You are right where you are supposed to be!

 

[Escape Fantasy]

I am always inspired when I see someone who is clean/sober and gets really self-righteous. It generally happens sometime between 3 and 6 months, depending on the speed at which they are internalizing the steps. For me, it stemmed from coming to terms that it was actually possible to not only be completely clean, but to experience freedom, joy, happiness... Then I started looking around at all of the people who continued to use and I wanted to shake them, and slap them around. "Just do the bleeping work!" is what I would be thinking and sometimes even saying.

Escape Fantasy, now I just ask, "how free do you want to be?" I am proud of you Escape Fantasy. I welcome another voice of abstinence. It is possible to be abstinent. I have found a freedom that eluded me when I was on maintenance, or full blown active addiction, but nothing anyone said was going to change my experience. I won't believe a word you say until I convince myself of it. If a person does do it on their own and relapses, sometimes it is exactly the pain they need to do something different. There is a tactful way to encourage a person to try something different. It is in giving them hope through sharing my own personal experience. Any hope generated by, "well I knew this one guy who tried such and such..." is a hollow and fleeting hope. When I care and when I share with others my experience of getting to the other side of common pain the ones who are ready to hear it will hear it. You are right where you are supposed to be!

Well, "how free do I want to be?" Well, I just want to be able to find a good career and a good and loving wife. That's basically why I started using in the first place back in high school.

I think falling in love is a good enough high for me. But, I know I'm gonna need to work hard for it so I'm on that journey to rise to the top. I need to generate ideas of how I can make the world a better place.

I'm okay with working hard for the rest of my life. These days, my life has just been consisted of fighting off laziness.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Did either of you read their last post? I’m not sure how you could have missed them stating they wanted to get back on their medication.

Let me be very clear: they clearly know what they want to try right now in terms of treatment. Not listening to them when they are directly and clearly telling you want they want to explore - again, finding buprenorphine treatment - does not help.

IME that kind of narrow minded paternalism (as in talking down to them about what they need, because of could you are the expert and they’re the newcomer, and experts always know best...) does far more harm than good. It’s one of the main reasons conventional abstience only programs are so ineffective.

You both are free to share in SL, but so please try not to flag out ignore what people are asking for help with. On BL we strive to meet people where they are at, not ignore them when they express a desire to get help like this OP is.

 

[Escape Fantasy]

Did either of you read their last post? I’m not sure how you could have missed them stating they wanted to get back on their medication.

Let me be very clear: they clearly know what they want to try right now in terms of treatment. Not listening to them when they are directly and clearly telling you want they want to explore - again, finding buprenorphine treatment - does not help.

IME that kind of narrow minded paternalism (as in talking down to them about what they need, because of could you are the expert and they’re the newcomer, and experts always know best...) does far more harm than good. It’s one of the main reasons conventional abstience only programs are so ineffective.

You both are free to share in SL, but so please try not to flag out ignore what people are asking for help with. On BL we strive to meet people where they are at, not ignore them when they express a desire to get help like this OP is.

Hey. I told him that. I think being a while longer off drugs should do the trick.

There is no alternative unless he goes to a treatment center. He's clean now and that's a very huge step already taken but, he's having thoughts again. Ride a bike or something

 

[Someone Who Is Me]

Touche, toothpastedog. Reading these nonsensical comments is irritating the bejeezus out of me. Poor OP is probably never going to post again if he keeps getting weird, off-topic judgy ramblings for responses.

 

[Escape Fantasy]

Lol. I'm trying to show you don't need drugs to live a good life. Take this, OP.

 

[Jabberwocky]

^Then share your story without telling people what will or won’t work for them. It’s merging on ridiculous to even suggest that, especially given the anonymous nature of BL. You are going about it like you’re at a meeting, whereas this is SL.

Try this: describe how your life is good and how you got there, without telling anyone else what they should do. That would be a good start.

I totally get feeling frustrated trying to support people move through their recovery journeys, but that’s the most we can really do. It’s up to the individual to figure out what works for them, and that generally requires some trial and error. Just trying to say I have to be very careful how I respond to posts here at times.

I need to be careful to really listen to what people are saying, and respond according to the direction they express an interest in trying, even if it isn’t what we might do in their shoes.

At the end of the day no one knows better what the OP needs than the OP themself. Our job is just to facilitate the journey, not direct is like a drill sergeant or parent.

Touche, toothpastedog. Reading these nonsensical comments is irritating the bejeezus out of me. Poor OP is probably never going to post again if he keeps getting weird, off-topic judgy ramblings for responses.

Pretty much.

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The biggest two things to me are helping with cravings for heroin and even to an extent my cravings for speed as well. It also helps me quite tremendously for anxiety, which has been pretty out of control since i went into the hospital and through all of this. I've been on sub maintenance a couple of long periods of time without using anything else. I know that being on bupe maintenance isn't going to blow another heart valve and kill me, but using speed very well could. For some reason i just feel incredibly guilty because my family doesn't understand or think i have any reason to get back on maintenance so i just naturally feel like it's wrong.

I think i have pretty much decided i will be going back on it once i start back at work when i get my work release form in the mail. I just need to keep telling myself that if i'm not using something that's going to put me back in the hospital then i shouldn't get down on myself. My mother has been amazing through all of this and i felt incredibly guilty for all of it because i was using since i was 16 and lived with her from 21 until now and the only reason she even found out was because i was sent to the ICU. I just don't want to let my family down, but i also want to do what i think is best for myself.

Now i guess i'm going to look for a doc that will take my insurance, it seems very difficult to find any that will but i cannot afford 100$ a week right now with bills right now. I also understand where my family and especially my mother is coming from, they were very very close to burying me, so it's hard not riddle myself with guilt when i'm doing something that in their eyes is setting me back.

Thank you for the input and anyone else that posts in this thread, i really appreciate it. Also, if anyone has any suggestions about clinics in the TN area that take insurance (specifically AETNA, and i hope this isn't against the rules) please do tell.

Would you like help formulating a plan to find a program that meets your needs - oh and any luck with the SAMHSA buprenorphine treatment directory?