subutex-suboxone -Emotionally flat, NOT enjoying anything I used too. Anyone else?

[TheOldme]

Hi all,

Firstly, I wish everyone here the best in their recovery! I'm not selfish and will happily help wherever possible! This my first time being active on a recovery forum. I read but don't post.

The post is about the long-term effects of suboxone has had on me. Plus, desperately wanting to get off it. The suboxforum will kick you off if you raise this and push it as owner runs a sub clinic. clicky

I will try to keep this short and to the point, it's not a debate about the use of suboxone. I would love to hear if others feel the same as me, have recovered and finally some good advice, guidance. I've put my main question at the start and my background on how I got here after (It turned into an essay, accept my apologies and I'm fully aware you all likely have or have had your own issue's)

I've been on 8mg of bupe for 2 years (started on 16mg) and I'm just coasting along day by day, depressed, emotionally numb, bad anxiety, low self-esteem. Nothing is fun anymore. I've tried self-medicating again with all sorts to get rid of my black dog Inc. Counselling, exercise. After much research and knowing my own mind I'm convinced the bupe is blocking my feel good, emotional sensors. I used to love reading, going out, sports, all sorts. I don't even feel the buzz I used to get from 2 pints.

Now I'm completely flat. Emotionally. Bupe and methadone do save lives I know! But being on them long term? wellbeing, state of mind. As a short-term reduction plan yes. long term in my opinion a big no no. I've experienced suboxone withdrawals as I tried to cut down to quick and they are as bad or if not not worse than other opiates. I also done something very silly. I had some "Naltrexone" tablets from years back. Recommended by a friend to stop alcohol urges.

I fancied a beer so took a 100mg tablet. I was on my own in my house. Sent me into precipitated withdrawal. I cannot even begin to describe. Sheer agony, my body felt like it had been thrown into a fire. I was crying, screaming. too horrific to explain. If I had a gun and could have used it I swear I would have pulled the trigger. My wife found me 4 hours in and I was in A&E/hospital for 24 hrs. In the morning, no sedatives given, the bupe was stripped from my brain after 2 years. The pain had subsided and I was an emotional wreck. I was in a ward with dying old men, there?s me taking up a bed, my family hurt. When my wife came to pick me up I sobbed like a baby. First time in many years. My emotions were most certainly back. I was sick, ill, still hurt but my head was clearer. Hard to explain.

DO NOT DO THIS PLEASE. Mine was a genuine foolish mistake.

I wanted to stay off the bupe and suffer it out as I?d done something that is usually done my medical experts and your put into an induced coma and supervised. Costs about ?5k.

I went back on bupe as I was told too (which I now regret) and benzo's and in 2 days I was starting to recover.

I want off bupe so badly and have been researching micro dosing lsd, using Iboga. I'm playing with fire again and not sure what to do. I am cutting down and will continue to do so but I hear that last mg is a real b**** to come off.

Any advice, experiences would be greatly appreciated. Good luck all and thanks for taking the time to read.

Thank you

 

[no_id]

Hey. Ive not much to say as Ive exactly the same problem, aside I took sub for 5 month, not years. The only solution is stopping subutex. I use l-tryptophan and l-thyrosine daily wich is helping me a bit with energy, but it don't have to be a permanent solution (permanent modification/action on serotonin system is something you don't want).

You can too discuss with you practitionner in order to get methadone treatment. It's recognized in France that ppl are better on methadone, but it's harder to get.

 

[MrPaint]

This topic certainly resonates with me. Ive been on and off suboxone for about a decade now... the suboxone is always my way of getting off the heroin rollercoaster. I have detoxed CT more times than I can count, and always relapsed. Finally I got to the point where im pretty sure my body just couldnt tolerate another un aided detox, or I mentally refuse to put myself through the pain? Either way, after I become stable on subutex, anywhere from 16mg starting to tapering down to sub 1mg, I felt emotionally dead the entire time I was on it... First time was for 3 years, got off, maintained sobriety for a few years unaided and then relapsed. Then started over again and im currently at the tail end of tapering. Im under 1mg a day now, but still no emotions... when I do stop I get overwhelmed at first at how great the mood swings can be. Sometimes I wonder if I should just stay on suboxone forever, but when im on it its like life almost has no purpose, my motivation is nearly non exsistent, and im content having nothing to show for my 32 years on this earth. Which is really sad. I lost everything more than a few times and Im not sure im ever going to 'want' back all that I once had... Suboxone might be as bad as dope in many respects, I hate it.

 

[herbavore]

I know that getting to a stable place with one's own emotions is the trickiest part of being human. Vacillating between emotionless/flat and emotionally overwhelmed can be terrifying. I realize that I am talking in general and you are talking specifically about drug induced states but in the end its all emotion and the relationship between thoughts and emotions. One of the simplest ways to decrease anxiety about emotions is to constantly reinforce in your thoughts that nothing is a permanent state.

If you can find a reputable place to try an iboga treatment it may well be worth investigating. Just don't give up, don't despair. You have options and you have time and by now your experience has given you a lot of knowledge. I know you can get to a better place as long as you continue to have faith in your ability to keep your compass pointed in that direction.

 

[uncomfortablynumb9]

Hey, just read your post and I feel the same way. I have tapered down to 4mg. From everything I read it seems it's just going to take time. I feel emotionally flat like that alot. As difficult as it is, if I keep moving and force myself to do things, anything besides sitting in front of the TV, I will start to feel a little better. We have to just keep moving. We have to know that nothing worth while comes easy. Every once in a while I will feel a glimmer of hope. You will too. When I get that feeling then I know that in time it will last longer. Just keep moving and try to keep your thoughts on positive things, I tend to obsess over my taper and how I feel. Focusing on something else, anything positive seems to help. I have to push every day even just to get out and socialize just with close family who understand. I am hoping that as I keep tapering more of me will come back. Keep positive and keep moving. I wish you all the best. I know it can get better.

 

[LopLover]

Here's my two cents on Suboxone. Most of the posts I've read above are from people still on fairly high doses. Bupe is a much more powerful drug than the industry makes it out to be--in fact, it's been available in Europe in microgram doses for pain for decades, and actually works at such low doses. I've been on it for ten years after a lifetime of 'heroin+whatever' addiction interrupted by a few significant opiate-free years of recovery ( always with eventual relapse) and a 5 or 6 year methadone maintenance way back in my twenties. Yes, I found myself with a pretty flat affect, but with the horror show that is me with my "normal" emotions, I was OK with that. Eventually I decided to try to get off the Sub, and tapered down to about 1/4 mg every other day, which actually works pretty well, and my feelings have come back some, though fortunately not at the insane level they've been before. I also have a lifetime history of mental illness, on and off meds, many suicide attempts over the years, hospitalizations, but have been stable with the sub and an antidepressant now for about 15 years, which is totally amazing.

When I tried to taper even lower, though, and when I tried to jump off from this dose (separate attempts) I hit a wall. The withdrawals were just as severe as any w/d had ever been, and they wouldn't go away. I toughed it out for about three weeks in one try and about a month on another, and I was just as sick the last day as I was the fifth, which is when they started. It's a seriously long-acting drug. I'm also a chronic pain patient, and it was obvious that without the Sub, my choices were living in pretty significant pain or going back on other opiates--if I could get anyone to even prescribe them for me!--which always ends in disaster. (BTW, I'm 64, and am chronically ill with cirrhosis and emphysema to the point that I'm considered terminal-ish. So my doctor, who is actually now retired, agreed to keep prescribing for me at this low dose, and changed the reason from addiction to pain so that, if something happened to him (he's pretty elderly, although probably will outlive me) any doctor could prescribe it for me. It's now legal for doctors to prescribe it for pain and they don't have to have the special certification that is required to prescribe it for addiction. I suspect that it's making bank for Big Pharma, so they are pushing it pretty hard. It is saving lives, though, as is methadone, and for some people--I might be one, but am not certain just yet--staying on a maintenance drug indefinitely is going to be the best form of recovery for them.

For those of you experiencing loss of emotions/feelings on Sub, first, taper your dose down to 1mg daily or lower. It takes a long time--in my case it was about 3 years from 8 mg to where I am now--but once you are stable on a much lower dose, you should find your brain re-sets somewhat. And if that doesn't work, given, say, 6 months, then it might be that you won't return to normal until you stop taking it. There's been no evidence that it changes your brain to make you feel that way forever, so not to worry. All mind-altering drugs interfere with the normal seritonin, dopamine, GABA, and whatever other complicated brain systems affect how we "feel," and most of the experts I've talked to say that it takes at least six months of absolute abstinence to even really determine if a person has a mood disorder, like depression, or if it's drug-related. Hope that helps...

 

[uncomfortablynumb9]

hi. I liked your post and have a question. I am actively tapering from suboxone. At the time I did not realize how strong 16 mg two strips a day was. So I have been tapering since December. When I have been able to taper down to about 3 mg a day, right now I cut one 8mg film into thirds. Now it's getting difficult. So I have to take an additional third of a strip about every four days. Are you using the film? I would like to know how you are able to get such a small dose? It's difficult to cut those film strips smaller. I also wonder if the meds on that strip is distributed evenly.

 

[LopLover]

hi. I liked your post and have a question. I am actively tapering from suboxone. At the time I did not realize how strong 16 mg two strips a day was. So I have been tapering since December. When I have been able to taper down to about 3 mg a day, right now I cut one 8mg film into thirds. Now it's getting difficult. So I have to take an additional third of a strip about every four days. Are you using the film? I would like to know how you are able to get such a small dose? It's difficult to cut those film strips smaller. I also wonder if the meds on that strip is distributed evenly.

They now make 4 mg and 2 mg strips. Just ask your doctor or clinic to prescribe them instead. I'd never be able to cut the 8 mg ones small enough for the dose I'm on now!

 

[uncomfortablynumb9]

Thank you.... ya I've been a hoarder with that terrible mentality that I never want to run out... or what if something happens and I can't get them. But I guess that's going to be the way to do it if I am taking this all the way seriously.