Which prescription sleep aids help to get off benzos?

[ombass]

Hey folks,
First off, big thanks for being here as a community! I have been a long time reader, first time poster. I have gotten a lot of knowledge and value from this community, so big kudos for that! %)

Backstory / context: I have been taking either Xanax or Klonopin (more usually Xanax) nightly as a sleep aid for a approx. 5 to 6 months. I have been going through a lot of stress, and have had real problems sleeping, so the Dr prescribed BOTH Xanax and Klonopin for me, one to help get to sleep, and one to take again if i wake up in the middle of the night and cant get back to sleep.

Fast forward to present day, stress levels are down, and I just want to stop taking the benzos and get back to normal sleeping patterns. I didn't think i was addicted on them until I tried to stop taking them. First symptom of withdrawals was massive fatigue. Others that followed were anxiety, depression, stomach problems/nausea, muscle pain, and out of all them, the WORST was/is this electric shock feeling as I'm trying to go to sleep. Its like my nervous system is inflamed/electrified, and these shocks/zaps seem to come in waves. The ONLY thing I've found that eliminates them is, of course, benzos. My body is addicted to them, and it seems to be the only thing that works.

After trying to go cold turkey, I realized why I was feeling so crappy and decided to go back up to the full pill (0.5mg) so I could regain normalcy in my brain and sleep patterns. This worked for a couple days, but quickly became ineffective. I hear / read this sort of rebound thing is common, especially when you try to go cold turkey. You go back to the benzos because you cant take it, but when you do back, the same dose isn't enough anymore. This seems to be exactly the case with my current situation.

At this point, I just want DESPERATELY to get off these devil pills. The withdrawal symptoms are nothing I would wish on ANYONE. Absolutely HORRIFIC!! The worst sensations I have ever felt, hands down. I figured I would be a "big man" the 2 days ago and go down to half a pill. First night was ok, i slept through the night. But the night that followed? PURE HELL! Been up since 3:00am, 3 hours total of sleep, fried, frazzled, tired, and just feeling like complete crap.

I absolutely have got to do something to help myself sleep and get off these pills. I know that I need to taper off the benzos SLOWLY, I have heard the liquid method is the best, since the small pills become hard to measure. There are guides for that online, but what I am really wondering is what i can take to SLEEP. I absolutely cannot stand another night of feeling like my nervous system is being electrocuted.

Does anyone have any experience tapering off benzos and using any of the following medications to help with the sleep disturbances and insomnia?

Amiltriptamine (Elavil) - low dose tricyclic antidepressant. Doesn't sedate you, but helps keep you asleep.

Doxepin (Sinequan) - low dose tricyclic antidepressant. Supposedly well tolerated with minimal side effects.

Remeron (Mirtazapine) - this one scares me! Dr just gave it to me, but I'm scared to take it due to all the scary reports online.

Lunesta (Eszopiclone) - I have an old bottle of this lying around, i'm pretty close to trying it. But i hear it also works on GABA receptors (like benzos).

Ambien (Zolpidem) - I also have an old bottle of this lying around. Tried it years ago but remember it making me groggy in the morning, and feeling depressed the day after.

Trazadone - another older antidepressant I took many years ago for sleep. I have heard its ineffective with benzo withdrawls.

Antihistamine drugs with sedative effects - e.g. diphenylhydramine (Benadryl), promethazine (Phenergan)

The main thing I seem to be struggling with is SLEEP. Especially getting to sleep. I am hoping one of these drugs is safe, and effective, and can potentially aid in combating insomnia and sleep disturbances associated with benzo withdrawl. I want to taper as quickly as possible, while also trying to avoid these nasty side effects and withdrawal symptoms.

Any input, experience or advice is greatly appreciated! THANK YOU!

 

[MrRoot]

Z-drugs are basically benzos so switching to a zolpidem or eszopiclone will just take the symptoms away but youbstart to get same symptoms after trying to quit them.

Small dose of mirtazapine (half or a quarter of singlenpill) works wonders as it just gives you the antihistamine action instead of antipsychotic action.

 

[ombass]

Z-drugs are basically benzos so switching to a zolpidem or eszopiclone will just take the symptoms away but youbstart to get same symptoms after trying to quit them.

Small dose of mirtazapine (half or a quarter of singlenpill) works wonders as it just gives you the antihistamine action instead of antipsychotic action.

Thanks for the reply and input here. Mirtazapine is what the Dr gave me yesterday to help with this, but I've been afraid to take it after reading a lot of negative reviews talking about all the side effects.

That being said, I did see one review from a person who sounded like they were in my exact shoes, trying to kick benzos and having a hard time doing it. They said Mirtazapine worked wonders.

Maybe I shouldn't be so afraid of it! The pills I have are 30mg, but i have a good pill cutter here and can easily get them into quarters. There are also 15mg pills available.

 

[MrRoot]

As they are 30mg one I would first try to cut it in eight pieces as sleep specialist I visited when I had to stop using benzos for sleep said that mirtazapine has only antihistaminic action when the dose is less than 7.5mg and thus taking that small dose prevents most of the negative side effects the next morning.

When I detoxed from oxycodone at inpatient setting they weren?t willing to give me a half and at first I had to take whole 15mg or nothing and I did take the whole pill and I was drowsy late in the next day and they thought at some point that I had smuggled some sedatives in the facility but they understood the point when a half didn?t give same effect in the morning.

Been taking only half or quarter of that 15mg pill since then.

 

[Keif' Richards]

OP, firstly, I would really like to welcome you to our little commune here. We're so happy to have new people!

You need to familiarize yourself with the Kindling Effect my friend. I will skip describing it and just let you read and understand it. In short, you really don't want to be using Benzodiazepines or Alcohol, as it can disproportionately set back your withdrawal syndrome.

The key, in my opinion, to any withdrawal, is relying upon other drugs that possess no cross-tolerance with the drug in question. If you're withdrawing from Opioids, use Benzodiazepines. If you're withdrawing from Benzodiazepines, maybe Opioids can help allay your symptoms.

It's my opinion that Gabapentinoids are the gold-standard medication for virtually any withdrawal syndrome. Gabapentinoids are a class of drugs including Gabapentin (Neurontin), Pregabalin (Lyrica) and Phenibut (OTC Supplement). From what I understand, there is little to no cross-tolerance between Gabapentinoids and Sedative/Hypnotics. Do you have access to any of these medications? I have been around the block dude, so if you want to know, you should follow my advice.

I'll add as a post-script that sedating antihistamines are well-known to exacerbate symptoms of withdrawal such as Restless Legs/Akathisia.

Also, what kind of access do you have to Cannabis?

 

[ombass]

OP, firstly, I would really like to welcome you to our little commune here. We're so happy to have new people!

You need to familiarize yourself with the Kindling Effect my friend. I will skip describing it and just let you read and understand it. In short, you really don't want to be using Benzodiazepines or Alcohol, as it can disproportionately set back your withdrawal syndrome.

The key, in my opinion, to any withdrawal, is relying upon other drugs that possess no cross-tolerance with the drug in question. If you're withdrawing from Opioids, use Benzodiazepines. If you're withdrawing from Benzodiazepines, maybe Opioids can help allay your symptoms.

It's my opinion that Gabapentinoids are the gold-standard medication for virtually any withdrawal syndrome. Gabapentinoids are a class of drugs including Gabapentin (Neurontin), Pregabalin (Lyrica) and Phenibut (OTC Supplement). From what I understand, there is little to no cross-tolerance between Gabapentinoids and Sedative/Hypnotics. Do you have access to any of these medications? I have been around the block dude, so if you want to know, you should follow my advice.

I'll add as a post-script that sedating antihistamines are well-known to exacerbate symptoms of withdrawal such as Restless Legs/Akathisia.

Also, what kind of access do you have to Cannabis?

Keif Richards, first off - awesome user ID! %) haha Nice one on that! Second off, thanks for the warm welcome! :D Feels great to be amongst people who are both knowledgable and experienced with what I'm going though! To answer your questions:

The Kindling Effect! HOLY SHIT BALLS! I had not heard of it, but just read up. This is EXACTLY what i am going through. This problem is greatly exasperated by the fact that I quit Xanax cold turkey after about 5-6 month of on/off use, but more on than off. I'd say 4-5 days a week. But i'd go days without, and really thought I was ok. Thought it was infrequent enough that I wasn't dependent. I took it last year, as well as many years ago, both times for about 2 months nightly, and then quit without any problems. THIS TIME WAS DIFFERENT! When i finally figured out why I was feeling so horrible, I immediately went back on the Xanax (same dosage). And likely a good thing that I did, as I know that quitting cold turkey is a VERY BAD idea with benzos, and also very dangerous.

I do not drink regularly, so no problem on the alcohol. re: benzodiazapines, I am only currently taking my 0.5 mg of Xanax nightly, but at this point its no longer cutting it. I only used it to help me sleep, but now... it doesn't put me to sleep. I get the dreaded electric shock / nervous system ZAP! every time I start to drift off and fall asleep. ITS MADDENING!! Without a doubt the worst sensation I have ever experienced. before I knew what it was, I went to the hospital because I was certain I was having borderline heart attacks or seizures every night. In this case I could be right! About the seizures, that is. Doc said my heart is fine. But I am getting shit sleep, and at this point I am scared of going to sleep! Because I know the horrors that await me! 8( This being said, I REFUSE to actually go up in dose! Because this means that I would have to spend even MORE time tapering. Which i want to get over with as quickly as possible!

I have honestly thought of using opiods to help with some of the withdrawal symptoms that are unfortunately starting to happen during waking hours now as well. Last night they came on like a frieght train, racy, anxiety, panicky feeling, basically my body saying PILL ME UP! The problem with me and opiods is that the ones ive tried (vicodin, oxycodone) tend to wire me and keep me awake! Which is the last thing I need right now.

You are not the first person to mention Gabapentinoids as being super helpful, and I was able to get some Gabapentin (Neurontin). After so many positive reports in this regard, I was eager to try it. I actually took it last night (300 mg) when i felt that withdrawal tidal wave come on, along with my nightly 0.5 mg Xanax. And WOW! At first, it made me feel pretty darn awesome! Bad feelings GONE. Good feelings NOW. I passed out in bliss. But when I woke up, both at 4am to take a leak, and then at 8am to get up... i felt HORRIBLE. Super nasty hangover after effects, very similar to a benzo hangover. Although almost worse. Heavier. Like a zombie. Depressed. Anxious. Irritable. On edge. Clouded and disconnected feeling. Its taken me literally ALL DAY to get past that nasty feeling it left me with, and its still not all the way gone

What should I do / think about Gabapentin? I have the 100mg capsules which I tried one of the night before, but didn't notice much from it. Which led me to trying 300mg. I suppose I could try 200 mg, but I've felt so bad today, I'm honeslty scared to! The reports I've read talk about taking 600 mg or even 900 mg! Wowsers! 8( I dunno why I appear to be so sensitive to it.

If I am getting this reaction to Gabapentin, would it be smart to try Pregabalin? How different are these drugs? I don't have access to Phenibut.

Very interesting about sedating antihistamines exacerbating symptoms of withdrawal such as Restless Legs! I actuallly have gotten spells of that, and took an antihistamines the other night along with mirtazapine (7.5mg). I thought the mirtazapine aggrivated the restless legs syndrome, but perhaps it was the antihistamine! The one I took was Hydroxyzine.

Luckily I DO have acccess to cannabis, and its about the only thing that keeps me sane and alive at this point!

THANK YOU so much for your input and help!!!

 

[Keif' Richards]

No thanks necessary new user I had people help me out in the same way, so I'm just returning the favor.

We will skip the Cannabis. It seems that you have that under control. Good. It's my opinion that the Gabapentin is not really causing the "nasty;hangover" effect. I'm not doubting or questioning your experience, but I would like you to consider the fact that maybe your Benzodiazepine withdrawal is setting in by the time you wake up. Coupled with the unfamiliar effects of the Gabapentin, it's understandable that you might feel confused and shitty.

The dosages that you are using with Gabapentin are by no means high. I am not trying to encourage irresponsible usage, but these drugs have a therapeutic index that renders them essentially non-toxic. You can definitely get yourself into a stupor, but these drugs will not kill you unless you are incredibly stupid with them. Pregabalin (Lyrica) and Gabapentin are very similar drugs and in my experience, are near completely cross-tolerant. What are the primary differences you ask? Well, Gabapentin is tricky because its bioavailability varies widely and is based upon several variables, whereas Pregabalin is just a "set-it-and-forget-it" thing. You just swallow the capsules and the bioavailability is pretty much constant.

You can increase your dosage of Gabapentin if it helps with your symptoms. Don't feel bad about it. Use whatever you have at your disposal to get through this process. Anything is better than using Benzodiazepines at this point.

Panic/Anxiety/Feeling like you are literally going to die, unfortunately, are symptoms sometimes experience when withdrawing from drugs like Benzodiazepines and/or Alcohol. The fact is, it's a terrible experience. I know the feeling. I drank a lot in college and got heavily dependent. When I quit, the only word I can use to describe it is FEAR. Opioid withdrawal is super unpleasant. It sucks. Withdrawal from sedative/hypnotics is a different beast. But what you're experiencing is normal.

Pregabalin is more effective in many ways, but proper usage of Gabapentin can be substituted for Pregabalin and vice versa, however, the unpleasant experiences you're having with Gabapentin might not occur with Pregabalin. I've met people who respond badly to one but not the other, so it's not that uncommon.

Do you use Melatonin? I actually got this awesome stuff at Costco made by Shciff that contains Melatonin, Chamomille, Valerian and some other stuff and I must say that it's pretty effective. It is like high-powered Melatonin.

Did I miss anything my friend?

 

[ombass]

Keif Richards! Thanks again for the awesome detailed info and reply here I wanted to get back with more info and an update. First off, you were absolutely correct that it wasn't the Gabapentin that created the nasty hangover the next day. It was caffeine! I discovered that if I have it in the afternoon or evening, the next day is hell. I guess people just cant tolerate stimulants at all during benzo withdrawal, especially in the afternoon or evening. LESSON: LEARNED!

Gabapentin most DEFINITELY helps with the withdrawals, in fact it seems to wipe them out completely when I take it. But many people have warned me to be cautious with Gabapentin, as apparently the withdrawals from that are no joke. And the side effects can be severe. That being said, I never noticed any side effects in the 5 pills that I took (300 mg). I decided to stop taking it at that point, just because I don't want to be dependent on another drug, and googling "gabapentin withdrawals" will bring up some pretty frightening shit!

What concerns me now is that ever since the reinstatement 3 weeks ago back onto 0.5 mg Xanax, I am just feeling steadily WORSE, not better I used to be ok during the daytime, now I seem to have a near-constant anxiety / wired feeling. This "body buzz" like my nerves are on fire or buzzing. This also makes it near impossible to get to sleep! 8) Another thing is, as of two days ago, I can no longer tolerate cannabis! It used to be a god send, and now it just ramps up symptoms to an awful level. Crazy anxiety and pins/needles in legs. So uncomfortable that I just can't justify it. I have also started to get slight hallucinations, like shadows are moving in low light, its hard to describe. I am also constipated and have completely lost my appetite.

At this point, I'm thinking that the reinstatement was just a big mistake. The symptoms after quitting cold turkey were bad, but now these are actually WORSE. And this is despite me taking the drug every night, whereas in the past, I took it maybe every other night (not sure if that matters). I have essentially UPPED the frequency, but at the same dose... and Im in hell. Is this "withdrawl tolerance" ? Or is this damage done, and i'm just doing more damage the longer i take them? Some people have suggested actually going UP in dose, before doing a slow taper down. That to me just sounds like prolonging the agony!

I have read some reports from Drs where they have "successfully" brought patients down off long term benzos at a high dose with the aid of Gabapentin. Here's a link to 6 reports:

https://www.ommegaonline.org/articl...-An-Adjunct-for-Benzodiazepine-Withdrawal/606

They ramp down the benzos and ramp up the Gabapentin. Usually over the period of a week or so, which is indeed VERY quickly! But what these reports leave out are the long term effects, and how the patients are feeling weeks, months later. Detox centers often do this as well, taper people down rapidly, then pronounce them "cured" because they aren't taking benzos anymore, but then weeks later, they get hit with the withdrawal / symptom onslaught which can continue for months/years.

Everyone on the BenzoBuddies community says I have to do a slow taper down, no way around it. I tend to agree... but, the people who do the slow tapers go through hell. Then they are in hell afterwards as well. With this in mind, along with my low-ish dose, I am tempted to try the more rapid taper with the aid of the gabapentin. Just get OFF ASAP. But I worry about the potential long term effects of doing that, as well as just doing myself any more damage. Its my understanding that going CT or tapering too rapidly is where you create problems/damage in the brain/body. I am also dealing with kindling, as I've quit them many times, always CT. But this time was / is the worst.

Do you have any advice in my particular situation? Honestly I am IN HELL and just want out! I am scared that I've messed my brain up BAD, and just don't know what to do. The concept of dragging this agony over the next 6-12 months sounds horrific. But the concept of long term damage or problems sounds ever scarier.

 

[mp44god]

Mirtazapine or Trazodone. Stay away from anti-psychotics. Melatonin never helped me personally, but many people swear by it.

 

[ombass]

Thanks for the reply!

I have been trying Trazadone lately, and it definitely helps me sleep. But I wake up feeling like crap, spacy, groggy, confused, disorientated - very uncomfortable feeling.

So, I think its time to try Mirtazapine again!

 

[T. Calderone]

I've been prescribed all of those medications at one time or another. Sinequan for me was one of the sedating ones next to Seroquel. The antidepressants that help with sleep do carry some amount of morning tiredness but on the plus side, you get used to it. Is your plan still to stop using Xanax altogether? I think the mirtazapine will do you some good and it may even help with the wired feeling that you mentioned the next day. Let us know how you're doing.

 

[Lorne???]

^Does remeron cause appetite gain as much as seroquel? From personal experience that is?

Just wanted to point out, Keif is on target, HOWEVER Hydroxyzine is one antihistamine that can help, and it has no anticholinergic effects to speak of, and rarely any side effects-yet it is a very effective anti-entic, and relaxing, modest sedative-hypnotic, and mild anti-anxiety effects-it should be considered among the First Ladies be wd meds, depending upon circumstance-just pointing that out, otherwise pharmacology is on the spot it seems, and the theory of using non-cross tolerant drugs is a beautifully simple approach to something far from simple-or beatiful; would like more experience with GABAergic type medications myself

Things seem handled, perhaps can attempt to fly away now-suit needs a break through, it's just one Tanuki

Oh, and mirtazepine is just a very potent h1 antagonist at low doses, it is fine

Luk to ya

 

[Scottc]

I was perscribed clonidine for use during the day for anxiety to not use xanax. It worked but would knock me out every time after about 1.5-2 hours. I’ve tried for sleep and it seems to help but you have to take in advance. You might try that.

 

[Zonxx]

Hey folks,
First off, big thanks for being here as a community! I have been a long time reader, first time poster. I have gotten a lot of knowledge and value from this community, so big kudos for that! %)

Backstory / context: I have been taking either Xanax or Klonopin (more usually Xanax) nightly as a sleep aid for a approx. 5 to 6 months. I have been going through a lot of stress, and have had real problems sleeping, so the Dr prescribed BOTH Xanax and Klonopin for me, one to help get to sleep, and one to take again if i wake up in the middle of the night and cant get back to sleep.

Fast forward to present day, stress levels are down, and I just want to stop taking the benzos and get back to normal sleeping patterns. I didn't think i was addicted on them until I tried to stop taking them. First symptom of withdrawals was massive fatigue. Others that followed were anxiety, depression, stomach problems/nausea, muscle pain, and out of all them, the WORST was/is this electric shock feeling as I'm trying to go to sleep. Its like my nervous system is inflamed/electrified, and these shocks/zaps seem to come in waves. The ONLY thing I've found that eliminates them is, of course, benzos. My body is addicted to them, and it seems to be the only thing that works.

After trying to go cold turkey, I realized why I was feeling so crappy and decided to go back up to the full pill (0.5mg) so I could regain normalcy in my brain and sleep patterns. This worked for a couple days, but quickly became ineffective. I hear / read this sort of rebound thing is common, especially when you try to go cold turkey. You go back to the benzos because you cant take it, but when you do back, the same dose isn't enough anymore. This seems to be exactly the case with my current situation.

At this point, I just want DESPERATELY to get off these devil pills. The withdrawal symptoms are nothing I would wish on ANYONE. Absolutely HORRIFIC!! The worst sensations I have ever felt, hands down. I figured I would be a "big man" the 2 days ago and go down to half a pill. First night was ok, i slept through the night. But the night that followed? PURE HELL! Been up since 3:00am, 3 hours total of sleep, fried, frazzled, tired, and just feeling like complete crap.

I absolutely have got to do something to help myself sleep and get off these pills. I know that I need to taper off the benzos SLOWLY, I have heard the liquid method is the best, since the small pills become hard to measure. There are guides for that online, but what I am really wondering is what i can take to SLEEP. I absolutely cannot stand another night of feeling like my nervous system is being electrocuted.

Does anyone have any experience tapering off benzos and using any of the following medications to help with the sleep disturbances and insomnia?

Amiltriptamine (Elavil) - low dose tricyclic antidepressant. Doesn't sedate you, but helps keep you asleep.

Doxepin (Sinequan) - low dose tricyclic antidepressant. Supposedly well tolerated with minimal side effects.

Remeron (Mirtazapine) - this one scares me! Dr just gave it to me, but I'm scared to take it due to all the scary reports online.

Lunesta (Eszopiclone) - I have an old bottle of this lying around, i'm pretty close to trying it. But i hear it also works on GABA receptors (like benzos).

Ambien (Zolpidem) - I also have an old bottle of this lying around. Tried it years ago but remember it making me groggy in the morning, and feeling depressed the day after.

Trazadone - another older antidepressant I took many years ago for sleep. I have heard its ineffective with benzo withdrawls.

Antihistamine drugs with sedative effects - e.g. diphenylhydramine (Benadryl), promethazine (Phenergan)

The main thing I seem to be struggling with is SLEEP. Especially getting to sleep. I am hoping one of these drugs is safe, and effective, and can potentially aid in combating insomnia and sleep disturbances associated with benzo withdrawl. I want to taper as quickly as possible, while also trying to avoid these nasty side effects and withdrawal symptoms.

Any input, experience or advice is greatly appreciated! THANK YOU!

Just curious about remeron, whats so bad about it? My doc gave them to me but i never took them and have hundreds in a drawer

 

[Scottc]

You should try seeing a new psychiatrist. Those seem like unusual symptoms. Trazadone worked for me but in the AM was awful grogginess, depression but doctors like it because it’s not another hypnotic and gets you to sleep fast. I’ve been perscribed chlonodine for anxiety during the day but it would knock me out. One doctor suggested it for sleep but it usually takes 1-2 hours and def off label for sleep.