EADD Heroin thread v.XXIV -- welcome back, PinkPapaver!

[F.U.B.A.R.]

While I do get where you are coming from, there is no such thing as a 'small' heroin habit if physically dependant on daily use to negate withdrawal and while symptoms can be much more severe the heavier the aggregated amounts are that you are using, the duration of the syndrome is not usually a factor due to the short duration and half life of the drug.

I managed to get through multiple cold turkeys before I got locked in by my substitute Rx (all with inevitable relapses) and while different people react differently, I believe that my experiences were more or less consistent regardless of whether or not I had been using just one bag a day or more. It would usually take a full 24 hours from my last dose before the discomfort really began, peaking on day 3 (which on many unsuccessful occasions would be the day I cracked) or 4, before tailing off rapidly after that. I may have been luckier than some but I would find that by day 5 some sleep would be possible and that once I had managed to get a reasonable nights worth (day 5 or 6) I would be 80% there and from a physical standpoint at least, free from withdrawal symptoms by day 7.

I am sure that even with your prior experiences telling you that it drags out a little longer than it may have done with me, I am sure by day 17 you will be fine. Just make sure that you stick with it as it is too easy to slip up but hopefully extra rewarding with the trip and all.

This.

I think you'll be fine. The only opioids with a withdrawl syndrome really longer than 17 days are methadone, buprenorphine and fentanyl patches.

The later sometimes surprises people as they assume that due to fentanyls short half life, fentanyl patches should have a very short withdrawl period. In practice though, the nature of transdermal patches mean that a depot of the drug builds up under the skin which takes a long time to fully dissapate.

If you've just been using heroin then I imagine your withdrawls will be over in 7-10 days and anything still lingering past that point will be minor and you should feel yoyrself getring better every day after that.

I hope you enjoy your trip and remember, every time you go through withdrawls, it gets a little bit tougher every successive time and once you've been dependant, you get that way again after a shorter and shorter period of time with each successive period of use i.e. if it took you 2 months of continuous use to get dependent the first time round, after you've gotton clean you may find yourself becoming dependent again after only a week of continuous use... the next time after only a few days etc.etc. This really would be an ideal time to knock it on the head for good.

And this.

Never underestimate the power of opiates to plunge you into your own personal hell, regardless of opiate or size of habit.

My first rattle lasted 10 days - and that was only a 'baby habit' of a ten bag a day for a few months. It reached a peak after three days then gradually subsided for the remainder. The only reason I didn't cave in was because of work commitments which made it impossible to score (I wasn't aware of codeine CWEs or loperamide as I didn't have the benefit of resources like Bluelight). By day 10, I was feeling better, so I went and scored again. Since that time I never managed to go more than 3 days in withdrawal because as mentioned above, it gets harder everytime.

But if you can make 17 days, you should be feeling fine.

 

[Jabberwocky]

just to echo what the others have said. i've withdrawn off smoking 2 bags a day and off shooting a gram a day and though they differed in intensity the duration was roughly the same. day 3 was always the worst, i've got to it over 20 times past it less than 5. by day 6 its mainly lethargy and braindeadness. this takes longer to tail off when you've had a big habit but you can essentially function normally after a week.

obviously this gets drawn out if you use any other opiates to relieve the withdrawals.

enjoy your tip and i hope you kick it before. i started my first rattle on a flight to buenos airies and even though i had DHCs being in an economy class seat with your legs going is awful even for shorthaul (i've been sick on every flight since that first one and every time sworn i'd get clean before the flight to not be stuck in an uncomfortable seat clucking).

something i've noticed since being off opiates for my first ever long stint, 76 days, is that my allergies have come back. cos opiated mess with your histamines it seemed to stop me being allergic to stuff. now i'm allergic to stuff i wasn't before i got on gear. i wonder if maybe this was happening to you and you'd mistook the runny nose and eyes, sneezing and lethargy caused by allergies as the runny nose and eyes, sneezing and lethargy caused by clucking?

 

[Inso]

Personally I find H to be much more euphoric and warm, I found oxy to be a bit lacking and a bit of an empty feeling in comparison, it was very disappointing after all of the hype surrounding it. Mind you I have had an on going battle with heroin for 12 years and only tried oxy recently, so I don't really know how it feels without a pretty hefty opiate tolerance. I'm curious as to why you are ok with trying oxy but would never try heroin? Not that I think that is a bad choice by any means, take it from me, steer well clear of all opiate if you can mate, because addiction creeps up on you fast

Addiction scares me. These Oxy were a little bonus gift I came across, no regular supply. I can see how insidiously addictive they could get. Getting Heroin would involve discovering a supplier and I know in my darkest days I wouldn't have given a fuck and ended up wrecking my life. I never want that option. It still fascinates me reading/watching stuff about it though, there's a morbid curiousity about the ultimate high.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Addiction scares me. These Oxy were a little bonus gift I came across, no regular supply. I can see how insidiously addictive they could get. Getting Heroin would involve discovering a supplier and I know in my darkest days I wouldn't have given a fuck and ended up wrecking my life. I never want that option. It still fascinates me reading/watching stuff about it though, there's a morbid curiousity about the ultimate high.

It's that morbid curiousity that will be your downfall - mark my words...

 

[apocalypse_when]

It's that morbid curiousity that will be your downfall - mark my words...

WARNING... LONG AND BORING POST...BEGAN TYPING AND THEN GOT CARRIED AWAY... YOU WERE WARNED, CARRY ON READING AT YOUR OWN RISK (BUT MAY WELL CURE WITHDRAWL RELATED INSOMNIA)

Yup... and although its obviously nice, its not really the "ultimate high". Its not that great... and after your first few periods of using you never really get that initial feeling back. Once you've been through a few withdrawls though, you really do discover a new definition of hell. People often compare it to a bad case of the flu, but in my experience its much worse than that. It really is hard to describe but its just the combination of so many different symptoms all at once that is the killer... hot and cold sweats, restless arms and legs, sickness, diarrhea, insomnia, extreme lethargy, depression, excruciating joint and muscle pain, restlessness and the inability to get comfortable, anxiety to the extreme that some discribe as "wanting to crawl out of your own skin" etc.etc. While there are comfort meds that may help alleviate some of these symptoms with varying degrees of successs, nothing helps alleviate ALL of them and reducing some just seems to make the other ones even more noticable.

I always used to think my strong will was sufficient to get me through and while it does help, opiate withdrawls can't be conquered by a strong will alone. Also, the temptation to just lay in bed and not eat or drink much is tempting because thats what you feel like doing, but it really does make things much worse.. While 7-10 days may not seem like long, its the fact that you just can't get comfortable and you feel that horrible anxiety and restlessness during the day and can't sleeo during the njight that makes the days pass soooooo slowly. It really is very hard to describe what opioid withdrawls feel like to someone who has never experienced them don't you think mate? All the time knowing that a nominal dose of just about any opiate/opioid will make you feel better in minutes... The worst thing you can do though is take an opioid while going through withdrawls as it really does set you back to square one..

One thing I'm always getting into arguments about over in the "Other Drugs" forum (what me?, argue? Never ) is when fucking septics keep suggesting that you can take kratom to stop withdrawls as a temporary measure and as long as you dont stay on it long enough to get you addicted to the kratom, you can take it for just as long as it would have taken the withdrawls from your opiate of choice to subside and then just stop the kratom (or any whatever other opioid they are suggesting). They keep saying because you won't have been on it long enough to cause dependence to it to manifest itself, you can then just stop and you won't feel any withdrawls... It really makes me want to bang my head against the keyboard as this just isn't how it works.. Doesn't matter what opioid you are taking, you have to be off EVERYTHING that stimulates the opiate receptors and let them clear your system and then the healing and normalising of the various hormones and neurotransmitters can begin. Once this process is finished then you are sorted, but throwing anything in that has an opiate effect while this process is ongoing will just set you right back to the beginning.. Its so infuriating but some just don't get it... Not talking about tapering either, just throwing an opiate in add hoc during the withdrawl period...

Sorry for the long post, I've just been thinking about this a lot recently as I ponder how to get off these fucking painkillers with the minimum amount of discomfort and how im gonna manage my pain in the future without them...

 

[Inso]

It's that morbid curiousity that will be your downfall - mark my words...

Don't doubt that for a minute. I just have a brain that wants to be altered. I think plenty who turn their nose up at Heroin addicts could easily become one in the right circumstances...

 

[Jabberwocky]

hey guys Today I just took the first part ot he dose to keep the w/d symthpomps and bay, pumpeb up my enzymes and metabolisme hopsefully by adding some more lorazepam though the mix after some food with more tramadol and 2 coffes 1 lorazepam. maybe I'll part a pentanyl patch to iv tonihgt, nice christmass night

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

WARNING... LONG AND BORING POST...BEGAN TYPING AND THEN GOT CARRIED AWAY... YOU WERE WARNED, CARRY ON READING AT YOUR OWN RISK (BUT MAY WELL CURE WITHDRAWL RELATED INSOMNIA[)/SIZE]

Yup... and although its obviously nice, its not really the "ultimate high". Its not that great... and after your first few periods of using you never really get that initial feeling back. Once you've been through a few withdrawls though, you really do discover a new definition of hell. People often compare it to a bad case of the flu, but in my experience its much worse than that. It really is hard to describe but its just the combination of so many different symptoms all at once that is the killer... hot and cold sweats, restless arms and legs, sickness, diarrhea, insomnia, extreme lethargy, depression, excruciating joint and muscle pain, restlessness and the inability to get comfortable, anxiety to the extreme that some discribe as "wanting to crawl out of your own skin" etc.etc. While there are comfort meds that may help alleviate some of these symptoms with varying degrees of successs, nothing helps alleviate ALL of them and reducing some just seems to make the other ones even more noticable.

I always used to think my strong will was sufficient to get me through and while it does help, opiate withdrawls can't be conquered by a strong will alone. Also, the temptation to just lay in bed and not eat or drink much is tempting because thats what you feel like doing, but it really does make things much worse.. While 7-10 days may not seem like long, its the fact that you just can't get comfortable and you feel that horrible anxiety and restlessness during the day and can't sleeo during the njight that makes the days pass soooooo slowly. It really is very hard to describe what opioid withdrawls feel like to someone who has never experienced them don't you think mate? All the time knowing that a nominal dose of just about any opiate/opioid will make you feel better in minutes... The worst thing you can do though is take an opioid while going through withdrawls as it really does set you back to square one..

One thing I'm always getting into arguments about over in the "Other Drugs" forum (what me?, argue? Never ) is when fucking septics keep suggesting that you can take kratom to stop withdrawls as a temporary measure and as long as you dont stay on it long enough to get you addicted to the kratom, you can take it for just as long as it would have taken the withdrawls from your opiate of choice to subside and then just stop the kratom (or any whatever other opioid they are suggesting). They keep saying because you won't have been on it long enough to cause dependence to it to manifest itself, you can then just stop and you won't feel any withdrawls... It really makes me want to bang my head against the keyboard as this just isn't how it works.. Doesn't matter what opioid you are taking, you have to be off EVERYTHING that stimulates the opiate receptors and let them clear your system and then the healing and normalising of the various hormones and neurotransmitters can begin. Once this process is finished then you are sorted, but throwing anything in that has an opiate effect while this process is ongoing will just set you right back to the beginning.. Its so infuriating but some just don't get it... Not talking about tapering either, just throwing an opiate in add hoc during the withdrawl period...

Sorry for the long post, I've just been thinking about this a lot recently as I ponder how to get off these fucking painkillers with the minimum amount of discomfort and how im gonna manage my pain in the future without them...

You're bang on there mate. When I finally slipped into addiction, everything I'd read (in books - didn't have tinterwebz in them days) stated that heroin withdrawal lasted for about 3 days and was like a dose of 'flu. Bollocks!! Like you say, there's so much more to it than that. At least with flu it's still possible to sleep! I would much prefer a dose of flu than opiate withdrawal anyday of the week - and yes, I have had proper flu,.

 

[apocalypse_when]

You're bang on there mate. When I finally slipped into addiction, everything I'd read (in books - didn't have tinterwebz in them days) stated that heroin withdrawal lasted for about 3 days and was like a dose of 'flu. Bollocks!! Like you say, there's so much more to it than that. At least with flu it's still possible to sleep! I would much prefer a dose of flu than opiate withdrawal anyday of the week - and yes, I have had proper flu,.

Exactly mate. Thats what makes it so much harder than just a case of the flu (which in itself is pretty awful). Its the fact that there's just no respite for all 24 hours of the day. Like you say, at least with the flu you get respite while you're asleep.

I also found that when you've still got opioids in your system, you sort of convince yourself that even though you know it will be bad, you'll be able to get through it... Just keep yourself busy and it will soon be over, just think of how quick the last week has passed, its not a long time at all... WRONG!!! It really is a VERY long time whej you're in abject misery every second of every day and nothing you do gives you any relief at all... When enough time passes, we convince ourselves that things weren't as bad as we thought and it'll be OK... but it never is. If only you could take someone considering heroin or abusing their painkiller script and allow them to feel a full 24 hours of what real opiate withdrawl feels like. My guess is they would no longer find it so romantic or desirable a lifestyle

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

You know when you're there in the middle of the night with that all consuming desire for sleep, but your head is banging, you're freezing cold yet sweating the smell of death out of every pore, your limbs are twitching uncontrollably, your muscles aching, eyes streaming, bones itching, while the walls are pressing in on you and you're finding it hard to breathe like someone's sitting on your chest, did you ever get the urge to rip off your clothes and go running off into the night in the howling wind and driving rain, screaming at the top of your voice until you could run no further and just collapse into a foetal ball of abject misery? I got that desire a lot, but could never follow it through as I just didn't have the energy...

 

[apocalypse_when]

You know when you're there in the middle of the night with that all consuming desire for sleep, but your head is banging, you're freezing cold yet sweating the smell of death out of every pore, your limbs are twitching uncontrollably, your muscles aching, eyes streaming, bones itching, while the walls are pressing in on you and you're finding it hard to breathe like someone's sitting on your chest, did you ever get the urge to rip off your clothes and go running off into the night in the howling wind and driving rain, screaming at the top of your voice until you could run no further and just collapse into a foetal ball of abject misery? I got that desire a lot, but could never follow it through as I just didn't have the energy...

Lol...yeah, something like that.

That feeling when you're laying in bed dog tired and desperate for sleep and you try every trick under the sun to get to sleep and then eventually nod off only to wake up again with a surge of adrenaline into your body that makes you feel sick.. You look at the clock and you've only been out for 10 minutes and you proceed to go through the whole process again over and over until morning and the whole night feels like an epic that you have to get through... Only for the daytime to come and you have to go through the whole struggle of getting through that as well...Knowing that when night comes again you will get zero relief.

Or when the fatigue is so bad that even walking a few steps has you close to collapse feeling like you've ran a marathon.. When you look at other people in the street smiling and laughing while you feel such utter misery inside and long to feel happiness like they feel and wonder if you ever will again...

Yeah, no worse than the flu.... no worse at all

 

[steewith2ees]

hey guys Today I just took the first part ot he dose to keep the w/d symthpomps and bay, pumpeb up my enzymes and metabolisme hopsefully by adding some more lorazepam though the mix after some food with more tramadol and 2 coffes 1 lorazepam. maybe I'll part a pentanyl patch to iv tonihgt, nice christmass night

By the spelling the lorazepam seems to be doing the trick! You know your limits better than I do but still, be careful if taking fentanyl or any other cns depressants if you're already chill +++

 

[apocalypse_when]

be careful if taking fentanyl or any other cns depressants if you're already chill +++

This.

I very much doubt he'll be reading this but IVing a fentanyl patch whem you're that fucked up on a benzo is a fucking death wish bro

 

[steewith2ees]

People will do what they will do - I've done enough stupid combos to not be in a position to preach but all we can do from here is to continue to point out how potentially dangerous it can be.

It wasn't a missed shot I didn't even have a chance to inject any of the contents - I aspirated the syringe, got my plume but I touched the plunger and the whole vein blew out - I've done it once before on the inside of my right arm and thought I'd hit an artery at first it made such a mess of the arm, whole fucking thing swollen up covered in hives from elbow to wrist took about 30 hours to go back to normal.

Took these about 3 minutes later once the initial lump (which was over half a cm in height) had dissipated.

My arm still feels sore and stiff.

 

[apocalypse_when]

^^^ good time to stop injecting then.

Just think what you would do if you were suddenly taken really ill and needed emergency IV access.

I've got execellent veins and still had to have my jugular cannulated in hospital in July due to the sheer numver of IVs that needed to be instered at once and it wasnt pleasant at all.. they had to use an ultrasound to get the right spot.

Not as nasty as having the artery in your wrist cannulated though.

 

[steewith2ees]

^^^ good time to stop injecting then.

....

...aware that my days of IV use are now over... I have at least hit one rocky bottom, one that should be enough to dissuade me from having a poke ever again.

,

 

[apocalypse_when]

....

Yes, I read that the first time around.

"Should be enough to dissuade" isn't thr samr as "will not do again"

It was said for your own good. If your gonna post pics of your blood vessles rupturing and leaving hige welts all over your arms, people are gonna post that maybe you shouldn't do it. Otherwise, what was the purpose of posting the pics and going in about it in the first place?

Whatever man, do what you want.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

People will do what they will do - I've done enough stupid combos to not be in a position to preach but all we can do from here is to continue to point out how potentially dangerous it can be.



Took these about 3 minutes later once the initial lump (which was over half a cm in height) had dissipated.

My arm still feels sore and stiff.

That looks exactly like a wasp sting to me. Did you try any antihistamines?

 

[steewith2ees]

Yes, I read that the first time around.

"Should be enough to dissuade" isn't thr samr as "will not do again"

It was said for your own good. If your gonna post pics of your blood vessles rupturing and leaving hige welts all over your arms, people are gonna post that maybe you shouldn't do it. Otherwise, what was the purpose of posting the pics and going in about it in the first place?

Whatever man, do what you want.

Its not the same words but its the same sentiment. Please do not take the fact that I was already following your advice as a sign that I do not appreciate it and as I posted details of the incident at the time followed by the pictures as soon as I remembered I had taken them, I did expect a degree of admonishment as the point was to show how harmful this behaviour is, following a number of posts made by others stating how great the gear was at the moment. It is the heroin thread, it is the place for these cautionary tales so please stop getting so defensive!

Didn't take any antihistamines as it was clear after a couple of hours or so that it was settling down.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

The welts aren't really something to say 'DO NOT EVER DO xyz..'

It is only histamine release that lasts for minutes to an hour or two at the very most. I've only had it last more than minutes when IM or subcut dosing very, very large shots of morphine.

H doesn't seem to cause as much as morphine, and dipropionylmorphine less still.

Only other time I can remember with truly awful histamine release was an alkaloid isolate from pods that had been acylated and after of course, stripping the residual propionyl chloride off under vacuum (which obviously would be MOST unhealthy to IV...an acyl halide, even traces, IV...jesus god christ on a bike, fuck THAT!)

I don't think I got all the codeine out of the refined alkaloidal fraction, because it caused one of the worst histamine releases I've ever had. Comparable to 700mg-1g+ morphine sulfate IV or IM. Entire arm looked like one big fucking welt, as if I'd shoved it wholesale into a wasp nest after filling same with tear-gas just to make sure they were pissed as hell.

Not just localized itching of hands, face, feet and injection site, but all over, anything that wasn't hair, nails or teeth, itched like fury. as if I'd subcutaneously injected a few drops of say, 10% HCl every square centimeter of my body. PAINFULLY itchy. Although good god, the product itself did give one fucking bastard strong rush. I'd do it again for sure, but the next time, I'll be sure to have it verified by someone with GC-MS to preclude there being more than trace quantities of codeine or acylcodeines present. Because sure as shit I don't want to experience the likes of that again.